23 replies to this topic

[Sylvia Day]

Okay.



I've seen quite a bit of griping lately about the RWA. Seems dissatisfaction abounds in the ranks of the romance writers. I'll weigh in here. Hopefully, you'll all add your POV too.



My main gripe is their website, which, quite frankly, sucks. The design is boring and uninspired, the information is not really helpful, and you can't rely on the links to work. Don't even get me started on the "Have We Got A Story For You" site. That one's really pitiful. What a waste to have two blah sites! Why don't they just spend the money, hire a real design team and launch one beautiful, friendly, knock-your-socks-off site? In every author interview I've read in the RWR where they're asked, "What is the extent of your self-promotion?" The writer always answers that their most important piece of self-promotion is their website. Why doesn't RWA get a hint from that common answer?



I also have a problem with their handling of another author's photo being displayed on the GH finalists page. For reasonable safety concerns, she requested that her photo not be included, but was denied. There is so much more to the story, but suffice it to say that I was disappointed and aghast with their handling of the situation.



Aside from that, my experience with RWA is rather limited. I'm a RWA PRO member, but I'm not active with it other than subscribing to the AskAnAuthorPro Digest. I enjoy the RWR and have learned quite a bit from it. I'd stay a member just for the RWR, although exclusive of other benefits, it would be an extremely expensive subscription!



I believe my submissions hold greater weight with agents and editors because of my membership. Perhaps that's not the case, but that's what I believe.



I really wish they took a greater stand on behalf of the writer, but truly, how much power can they be expected to wield?



Do I wish I got more out of the hefty membersip dues? Certainly. Do I wish the RWA would take a firmer stand with the publishing industry and agents? Of course.

But at this time, I plan to continue my membership indefinitely.



What do you think?

[cece]

Sylvia Day said:

I enjoy the RWR and have learned quite a bit from it. I'd stay a member just for the RWR, although exclusive of other benefits, it would be an extremely expensive subscription!    

I have gotten nothing out of being a Pro member. Is AskAnAuthorPro different from Pro-Link? Or should I say how differnet is it? I'm going to be real honest. Most of what I see on the pro list is people chasing their tails and griping INCESSANTLY about the same thing over and over and over and.... :x and...and...offering up the occasiona bloated opinion. I know I sound like a real b**** but some people just floor me.

You're right the websites are pitiful and so is the ad campiagn. I joined to be able to enter more contests and learn. The subscription is expensive since the RWR is the best part of it from what I can tell. But like you, I'll stay for the time being.

cece

[Sylvia Day]

cece said:

Is AskAnAuthorPro different from Pro-Link? Or should I say how differnet is it?

AskAnAuthorPro picks a new topic every so often. (The last one was critique groups, before that was character building, I think) They enlist a published author to answer questions on the subject. They give you a certain amount of days to post your question. Then the published author answers them one by one. There's no self-promotion on it, only question and answer, and then only when a new topic is introduced.

[Larissa Ione]

You know, I've never applied for PRO status even though I could have several times over. And because I'm not officially a pro, I feel like "pros" sometimes look down on me. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I've heard others say the same thing. I qualify for PRO status, but I've never given a crap about taking the time to apply. What's the point? Seriously? Are there any benefits that I can't get on my own?[/i]

[cece]

Larissa Ione said:

I feel like "pros" sometimes look down on me.  Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I've heard others say the same thing.  I qualify for PRO status, but I've never given a crap about taking the time to apply.  What's the point?  Seriously?  Are there any benefits that I can't get on my own?[/i]

You know it's just like writers looking donw on e-pubbed writers or writers w/agents looking down on those without (and unpublished). They alwasy seem to need SOMEONE to look down their nose at. I hear htat some agents/publishers are giving it a bit of a status but that could be wishful thinking on the part of some. Honestly, NO, I don't see any benefits besdies the little plastic pro pen you get *rolling eyes*

[Sasha White]

I also could've applied for PRO but didn't Larissa. Maybe if I was heading to Nationals I would've, because I think they get into a party or something. LOL



I've discovered my RWA membership really doesn't help me up here in Northern Canada. The closest Chapter is a 4 hour drive, and while the online chapter looks good, I've never actually joined it to find out for sure. So that's my fault too.



Also they don't recognise Black Lace as a publisher, and since I'm back to focusing on erotica more than romance...what's the point for me?



:geek: Sasha

[jordansummers]

I've debated whether to reply to this thread. I went so far as to construct a lengthy post, but deleted it instead. The thing is with any organization you get out of it what you put in. RWA is no exception. If you don't like what they're doing, make suggestions for change, run for office, volunteer to help, etc.

In another life, I was a union shop steward for an airline. I volunteered for this position, because I didn't like the direction the company was going in. The amount of hateful comments I received was astounding. Mainly from people standing on the sidelines. It gave me newfound respect for anyone who volunteers their time. It's not easy.
:shock:


Jordan, who missed the opportunity to become PRO recognized...
www.jordansummers.com

[jordansummers]

Sasha & Cece,

Sasha your situation is unique because of where you're located. I would try the online chapter, if you don't like it, then at least you've tried. As for Virgin not being recognized by RWA, I believe there are two reasons for that. The first is Blace Lace doesn't put out romances. The second is because I doubt Virgin has applied for recognition. I may be wrong, but that would be my guess. You may want to write them and ask.

Cece,

There are always going to be those kinds of people who look down upon others. Whether it's because they are PRO and others aren't, e-pub vs. mass market paperback, ect. It makes them feel better, at least momentarily. What they don't realize is by ripping others apart they are shredding themselves in the process. I know it's difficult and frustrating, but you can't win with these people. It's best to just let them limp away back into their miserable little lives. :roll:

I've been in this situation. I was fortunate that most of the people in my local chapter were supportive. The worst I got was a couple of odd looks. Never justify why you write what you write. Remember, you are where you need to be at this point in time. Things can change in the blink of an eye. It certainly did for me.


Jordan, who is stepping off her soapbox now...
www.jordansummers.com

[cece]

jordansummers said:

Cece,

There are always going to be those kinds of people who look down upon others....
I've been in this situation. I was fortunate that most of the people in my local chapter were supportive. The worst I got was a couple of odd looks. Never justify why you write what you write. Remember, you are where you need to be at this point in time.

Thanks Jordan!!!!!! I try not to let it get to me for the most part and usually it's not even on my OWN behalf that I get agrivated!! It's the stupidity and arogance of other people that just leaves me

Luckily I have a great chapter--I dont quite think they get the whole "chick lit" thing so I don't say too much about my writing which is more of a hybrid than straight chick lit

[Sylvia Day]

jordansummers said:

I've debated whether to reply to this thread. I went so far as to construct a lengthy post, but deleted it instead.

I'm glad you did reply! I often write lengthy posts and then cut out huge chunks of it. Please feel free to vent and rant and lecture and whatever to your heart's content. (This goes for everyone.) As long as there are no hurtful or disparaging comments, I think anything said can only benefit us all.



My RWR arrived yesterday, full of wonderfully helpful articles. I truly love my RWR. Like I mentioned in my original post, I would stay a member just for the subscription. A lot of people mention contests in reference to the RWR. I hope everyone who receives it gets more out of it than that. The interviews with agents and editors and authors, the articles on writing techniques and suggestions, and updates to publisher guidelines are all awesome. I usually just skim right past the contests and get to the good stuff!



Also in my inbox this morning was an AskAnAuthorPro digest with four greatly informative articles on writing the short synopsis, complete with cheat sheets, templates, and examples from author Kathy Carmichael. You can access these tools at her site. (Funny enough, Sasha sent me the link just last week! )



There are great things to be found through RWA membership. I admit to wanting more, but Jordan is right. If I want to change it, I should take the steps to do it myself. But first I must recognize the issue I find fault with and then offer suggestions for how to fix it. After all, ######, with no proposed solution, is unconstructive for everyone.



First there is the website, but I imagine that would require a full-time webmistress. Can RWA afford one? And who is good enough to build a great site and not have any other work to do? :scratch:



(That's a rhetorical question, by the way! :oops: )

[cece]

Sylvia Day said:

After all, ######, with no proposed solution, is unconstructive for everyone.

That's like my motto for life. If you're gonna b**** about it, fix it. If you ain't gonna fix it, shaddup!!

And I mean for myself too. I've heard from more than one person that getting involved takes a lot of time away from writing. I'll be honest and admit my first priority is to sell, not do volunteer work for the RWA (most importantly becuase I don't have time and what free time I do have I'm not willing to give up). I spent five years as an adoption rights activist/volunteer searcher so I KNOW just how draining it can be.
On that note, I do take some time to judge RWA contests occasionally in my quest to balance the power between good and evil juges **pulls tongue out of cheek**

cece

[Sylvia Day]

cece said:

On that note, I do take some time to judge RWA contests occasionally in my quest to balance the power between good and evil juges

Yay, Cece!! :salut: LOL

[jordansummers]

Sylvia,

I couldn't have said it better myself. I love the RWR magazine. My teacher Leigh Michaels contributes quite a few articles for them. This month's edition is hugely helpful. I missed the Jennifer Crusie talk on writing at National, so I'm glad she wrote an article for the magazine. That woman is a hoot.

Also Cece, you're welcome.

Best,

Jordan
www.jordansummers.com

[Sasha White]

Jordan Summers wrote:

Quote

Sasha your situation is unique because of where you're located. I would try the online chapter, if you don't like it, then at least you've tried. As for Virgin not being recognized by RWA, I believe there are two reasons for that. The first is Blace Lace doesn't put out romances. The second is because I doubt Virgin has applied for recognition. I may be wrong, but that would be my guess. You may want to write them and ask.

Actually, I don't mind that they're not recognised. It was just a point that I was making in the way that RWA isn't a big deal for myself, either way. I joined RWA when I wanted to moveinto writing more romance than eortica....but this summer I've learned alot about my own writing and style and voice, and while I stillthink I'll eventually make the jump. I'm not stressing about it. If erotica is where I fit right now..I'm ok with that.



Also when I first joined I wanted to enter contests, and find some cp's. I entered a couple of contests and discovered they're not for me. And I've found some great cp's, not through RWA, (one of who is the tongue in cheek, occassional evi- errr. good judge ) but like I said, that's my own fault for not joining a chapter. I do enjoy the magazine, and the website too, (agents listings mostly).



Will I join again next year, who knows? I 'll see how much $$ I have when it comes time to renew my dues. LOL Do I have anything against them? Not at all. I agree, you get back what you put out there, and I haven't tried to get much more out of my RWA than I've received.



Sasha

[jordansummers]

Sasha,

I think it's good that you're learning about your writing. It's so important to know your strengths, whether it be for romance, erotica, or horror. No matter what you choose to do with RWA, I'm sure it'll be the right choice for you. The organization will always be there when you're ready to make the leap to romance.

I'm on a slow learning curve when it comes to discovering my writing strengths. By that I mean, what I should be writing. I don't think it's going to be just one genre, but at this point, I have to keep experimenting. Hopefully it'll come to me soon. LOL!

Jordan, who keeps waiting for a sign...

[Alison Kent]

Sasha White said:

 
Also they don't recognise Black Lace as a publisher, and since I'm back to focusing on erotica more than romance...what's the point for me?

:geek: Sasha

Do you know this for a fact? (I just ran across this topic!) I can't see how they couldn't recognize Black Lace / Virgin with all the imprints they have and books they sell. Do they really not sell enough between BL, Nexus, etc.? Do they not pay royalties?

[Sasha White]

Hi Alison,



I know that when I joined RWA and filled out the form I checked off 'published author' and wrote in Black Lace for the publisher. Yet on my membership they put my status as 'unpublished'. So I assumed that meant they didn't recognise Black Lace. It didn't specify novel length, so I don't think it's because they're short stories. :?



I thought about looking into it further, but I haven't gotten around to it. :roll: And I admit I'm not sure what the extra benifits would be if my status changed so it hasn't been a huge priority.



I'm not sure how they (Virgin) deals with the novels they sell, but they do NOT pay royalties on the short stories. Just a nice flat fee. Better than any other anthologies I've seen anyways. (Although I'm sure Brava's pay better. )



Sasha

[Alison Kent]

Sasha White said:

I'm not sure how they (Virgin) deals with the novels they sell, but they do NOT pay royalties on the short stories.  Just a  nice flat fee. Better than any other anthologies I've seen anyways.  (Although I'm sure Brava's pay better. )    

Sasha

Hmm. If they pay royalties on their full-length novels then I would think they would be a royalty-paying! I'm really aghast that RWA wouldn't consider Virgin a real publisher. That makes ZERO sense from the buttload of books I've seen offered on their site!

(Of course, like you said, no big deal if there are no benefits!)

[Sasha White]

I agree. Virgin Books is a huge publisher, with many lines to choose from. But, I know what I've done, and I know that editors recognise it when I include it in query letters.



Maybe I'll look into it more when I start thinking about attending Nationals next year. I could email Saskia (Valerie) and ask her..I'm pretty sure she's had full novels with them. Wendy Woo would know too.



Geez! Now that I think about it...it would pretty easy to find out the answers. :oops:





:joker: Sasha

[Alison Kent]

Sasha White said:

 

Geez! Now that I think about it...it would pretty easy to find out the answers.  :oops:  


:joker: Sasha

Yep. I was kinda thinking the same thing, LOL!