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A couple of questions for Dr. Lucas, Gideon, Eva, Corinne, Magdalene, Christopher & Marriage


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#21 LN Cronan

 

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:42 PM

Eva surmised Dr. Lucas is one of the two pediatricians that Gideon's mother consulted, and that's why Eva confronted him. Her guess was based on what Eva got from confronting Gideon's mother. From Reflected (these are things Gideon's mother said during the fight with Eva)

 

"I had Gideon examined by two separate pediatricians to look for .... trauma." 

 

"Who was I supposed to believe when there was no proof. No one could find anything to support Gideon's claims."

 

When Gideon finally told Eva some things about the abuse, the behavior he describes is molestation that began mildly and escalated in seriousness as it continued. Molestation wouldn't leave physical marks. But from some things Eva overheard him say during his nightmares (get off me ... it hurts) it sounds like the abuse ultimately escalated to forcible penetration, which does leave scarring. What if his mother had him examined while the abuse was still in the molestation phase, decided Gideon was lying for attention because there wasn't any signs of physical trauma, and forced him continue to see the abuser. This part of what his mother said to Eva chills me.

 

"Gideon was a troubled boy, struggling through therapy over his father's death, and desperate for attention."

 

Reflected in You spoiler question for Sylvia (though the answer might be in Entwined.) Did Dr. Lucas lie about the results of his examination of Gideon, or, were there not yet physical trauma signs when he did examine Gideon? Gideon hates him not because Lucas lied, but because he was one of many adults who failed to protect him? That Lucas basically said "the kid's lying" and the abuser ended up continuing to have access to Gideon? And the abuser, knowing the "coast was clear" because no one believed Gideon, escalated from molesting him to raping him?



#22 GiGi

 

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

Hi LN Cronan, You raise some really good points, but here is my question: Who was the second pediatrician/coconspirator who also agree that Gideon wasn't being abused? Did the two individuals know each other or were they unrelated? Here's my next question; why didn't the pediatricians contact Child Protective Services? When a complaint about abuse is made, a healthcare provider is mandated by law to register the complaint so that even if physical evidence of abuse isn't found, a social worker could follow up to ensure the safety of said child. A physician would also have to question the child about the abuse (very gently) and if the child stated that he/she had been abused to the healthcare provider (for example), then the physician would have no alternative but to report a case of abuse. My question is; What the heck happened here?! It seems that both Eva and Gideon were failed by the healthcare system at every single turn. Physicians failed to report complaints of abuse, potential and physical evidence that was found was disregarded, etc.... The type of initial abuse that is described in the book is basically grooming a child for the abuse. I personally think that maybe Gideon tolerated a lot before he said something and that someone or a group of someone's lied. After all how can one explain the level of hatred that Gideon has for Dr. Lucas? I also just want to be clear that there is no mild molestation. What we have here is a case of; fondling, potentially oral and eventual anal penetration. Gideon did not elaborate thus far except through his nightmares. So it will be interesting to see how this entire thing unfolds. He is a man with many dark secrets...

#23 LN Cronan

 

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:29 AM

Hi LN Cronan, You raise some really good points, but here is my question: Who was the second pediatrician/coconspirator who also agree that Gideon wasn't being abused? Did the two individuals know each other or were they unrelated? Here's my next question; why didn't the pediatricians contact Child Protective Services? When a complaint about abuse is made, a healthcare provider is mandated by law to register the complaint so that even if physical evidence of abuse isn't found, a social worker could follow up to ensure the safety of said child. A physician would also have to question the child about the abuse (very gently) and if the child stated that he/she had been abused to the healthcare provider (for example), then the physician would have no alternative but to report a case of abuse. My question is; What the heck happened here?! It seems that both Eva and Gideon were failed by the healthcare system at every single turn. Physicians failed to report complaints of abuse, potential and physical evidence that was found was disregarded, etc.... The type of initial abuse that is described in the book is basically grooming a child for the abuse. I personally think that maybe Gideon tolerated a lot before he said something and that someone or a group of someone's lied. After all how can one explain the level of hatred that Gideon has for Dr. Lucas? I also just want to be clear that there is no mild molestation. What we have here is a case of; fondling, potentially oral and eventual anal penetration. Gideon did not elaborate thus far except through his nightmares. So it will be interesting to see how this entire thing unfolds. He is a man with many dark secrets...

 

Hi GiGi! I've got some theories about the points you raise. But first I want to affirm you're absolutely right -- there is no "mild" molestation. All sexual abuse, especially of children, is serious and is wrong. I should have found a better word to convey the pattern Gideon's abuser used to victimize him, and you hit on exactly the right word: grooming. Grooming is how is started, and it escalated from there.

 

Wikipedia has an article on child sexual abuse that explains the myriad ways it is committed (as well at many of the effects it has on the victims). I invite others on this thread to read the article to discern which abuse patterns Gideon and Eva were subjected to and how in many ways the resultant damage was the same. The link is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sex_abuse

 

As for the reporting: obviously in Gideon's case, his mother and stepfather used their money to squash the entire matter. Private consultations with pediatricians, and I'll bet the examinations were done at the Vidal house instead of doctor's offices. After all, the therapist originally hired to treat Gideon for his anger issues came out to the house to see him instead of him going to the therapist's office. She (the child therapist) came, bringing a male doctoral student (who became the abuser) along. She was supposed to work with Gideon, but she ended up working with his mother instead, who was in the midst of a difficult pregnancy. The doctoral student was left to work with Gideon. Unsupervised and behind closed doors with him (in the library) at the Vidal mansion.

 

Should the pediatricians Elizabeth Vidal hired to examine Gideon have alerted authorities? YES. They had a legal and moral responsibility to report even the accusations. They should have reported even strong suspicions. Child Protective Services would take over as outside authorities to investigate. I think Elizabeth Vidal privately paid a lot of money to have the accusations investigated herself, out at the house, by private doctors. The outcome was she decided Gideon must be lying. End of case. He was failed on every single level. The private mental health system that exposed him to the actual abuser. The private medical establishment. And worst of all, his family.

 

In Eva's case, Child Services did become involved. Here are a couple of passages from Bared to You from the conversation in which Eva told Gideon about Nathan. One of the questions he asked is how she got out, how did the abuse end.

 

"When I was fourteen. I thought I was having my period, but there was too much blood. My mother panicked and took me to the emergency room. I'd had a miscarriage. In the course of the exam, they found evidence of ... other trauma. Vaginal and anal scarring -- "

 

" ... The hospital reported the abuse to child services. It's all a matter of public record, which has been sealed, but there are people who know the story."

 

We know Nathan was dealt with behind closed doors instead of criminally prosecuted. However, Eva's mother believed her right away and got her out of the home, leaving her first husband, Nathan's father, and divorcing him soon after. Child Services, I think, deferred to the way the case was handled because the child victim was permanently removed from the abusive household, which consisted of a step family, by the biological mother of the victim, who whatever other choices she made, at least immediately took decisive steps to protect the victim. Which likely included continued medical treatment for the physical and psychological damage.



#24 GiGi

 

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:11 PM

Hi LN Cronan, I read your posting about the abuse situation and I have a few points to add: 1. In Eva's case, yes you are correct that Child Protective Services were contacted, but I submit to you that they dropped the ball. It is the responsibility of the Hospital, the Physician and CPS to contact the police as well. Let's remember that a horrendous crime had been repeatedly committed here. Firstly yes the child has to be removed from the source of danger, but we are also dealing with another child and criminal that has to be dealt with as well. If Nathan could do this to Eva repeatedly, then who's to say that he wouldn't or wasn't doing this to someone else? After all surely Nathan had several opportunities to come into contact with other girls, etc... What about them? Who was going to protect them? That's why I say CPS completely dropped the ball. Quickly, I get that CPS has thousands of cases on hand and that maybe the caseworker figured that if Eva were out of the situation then maybe that was enough, but it wasn't. It was a direct dereliction of duty. Every single person who works with/for children and/or is in healthcare is legally mandated to report any incidents to the police. No one did!! As far as the hospital, physicians, etc., each healthcare professional swears an oath of Nonmaleficence...."do no harm". Each and every single person who didn't report this to the police did grave harm not only to Eva but other "potential children/victims" who may have come into contact with Nathan. It seems that in cases of wealth people have the option of criminal prosecution, which is ridiculous! What is even more upsetting is the fact that we have a society that seems to agree with these unspoken rules of conduct. 2. Gideon's case is just as sinister. Again I have to ask who were the two pediatricians? In these types of cases both practitioners have to be independent of one another. So how on earth did Elizabeth Vidal get two completely separate medical doctors to cover up the abuse? Again these doctors swore the same oath. What's up with that? Maybe the third book will shed some light on the matter. I am glad that you provided a web site for everyone in this forum or any guests that may visit this web site can have an opportunity to gain some information about sexual abuse. I only had a few quick things to add. According to the World Health Organization 1:4 female children will be sexually abused and 1:6 male children will be sexually abused. On the African continent 1:3 children will be sexually abused (regardless of gender, race, etc.). Those numbers are staggering considering that we live in a "supposed" civilized society. Just in case anyone is wondering why this is such a sticking point for me, I think it is important that people be aware of what ideally, is supposed to go on when there is suspected child abuse claim. It was part of my course curriculum in University and then again when I took my specialty degree/post grad in University. I, too, swore an oath of Non maleficence and this oath is something that I take very seriously. What I find interesting is that each of us brings our life experiences to this forum and that is why this such an incredible group of women to correspond with. Way to go Sylvia!

#25 GiGi

 

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:15 PM

Hi everyone, Sorry just quickly, I wanted to explain. Healthcare providers are mandated to make two phone calls in suspected cases of child sexual abuse; one is to Child Protective Services and the other is to the Police. Both of those phone calls will ensure that no one can accidentally or purposely drop the ball when investigating and dealing with a claim of sexual abuse. All parties are thereby protected.

#26 LN Cronan

 

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 05:31 AM

Both Elizabeth Vidal and Monica Stanton (Monica Barker at the time) appear to have used the power of money to make sure no one ended up getting criminally charged. Which is wrong, but we know the power money can exert. For both women, the main motive was to make sure the accusations never reached the arrest level (and thus became public). Both were trying to keep the situations secret. The only main difference is Elizabeth refused to believe the accusations were true, while Monica knew they were true but never wanted them public.

 

I fault Monica in many ways for handling things in a way that ended up not protecting Eva. Sure, Monica got a total of $7 million dollars ($5 million of that for Eva herself) in order to make sure there was enough money to have the financial security of protecting Eva. Monica's biggest flaw is equating wealth with protection.

 

Had she not stood in the way of Nathan being prosecuted, he might still be in prison. Sure, he was still a teen-ager at the time, but by the end of the rapes was old enough to be charged as an adult. He was two years older than Eva, so when she miscarried at age 14, he was 16. I gather from the story she's around 25 years old now. He could still have been in prison for child rape eleven years later.

 

Monica failed again when Nathan showed up in New York. She and Stanton continued to try to conspire to hush everything up, by at least considering paying the blackmail in return for Nathan going away. Monica told Eva, after Nathan died, "That's why Richard decided it would be best to just pay him what he wanted. Nathan said he'd stay away from you as long as he had the money to leave the country."

 

Keeping Eva in the dark put her in terrible danger. Nathan wanted more than money. He was after Eva, stalking her, building up to likely raping and then killing her. And because Cary didn't know either, he almost ended up dead - Nathan beat him with a baseball bat to the point where Cary ended up in the hospital with a skull fracture, concussion, broken ribs and a broken arm.

 

Of course, Gideon was at fault too exactly the way Monica was - keeping Eva in the dark that Nathan was in New York. Rather than protecting her by telling her the truth and going to the police (about the blackmail, and if those pictures are of her being raped as a girl, sexually-explicit images of a child) so he could go to prison, Gideon decided to use money/power to quietly put her under physical protection. When he realized Nathan was way too dangerous (because of Cary) Gideon still didn't go to the police. He took matters into his own hands.



#27 GiGi

 

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:31 PM

Hi LN Cronan, Do you think that maybe Monica didn't alert Eva about seeing Nathan outside the Crossfire Building because somewhere along the line she decided that she was going to deal with the problem? Maybe Monica had been harbouring resentment over what Nathan did to her daughter and then seeing Nathan solidified that hatred. Monica was going to do the only thing that she could do...she was going to kill the man who repeatedly hurt her child. So there would be no reason for Monica to inform Eva about Nathan. She was going to eliminate the threat herself (or most likely with some help). What do you think? What does everyone think?

#28 mrsmajessick

 

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 01:16 AM

Wow LN Cronan & GiGi you ladies bring up some really interesting points I hadn't even begun to think about. First, I want to say as the daughter of doctor parents I have heard them say numerous times that the number one rule of practice is "Above all else do no harm." But, like you have both stated we are dealing with the very rich here and unfortunately the world operates on a different level for them. Having said that, is it possible Elizabeth knew both of the (and I use the term loosely) "doctors" within her social circle and asked them to discreetly examine her son? And, if so, did these "doctors" have a score to settle with Gideon's father but since he wasn't around took it out on his son? I know that's reaching way out there but Dr. Lucas was at the charity dinner so it appears he more than likely socialized in the same circles as the Cross's - just a guess?  

 

What doesn't make sense to me is the ages. I can't remember the age frame Gideon places himself at when this started but I want to say if Elizabeth was pregnant with Ireland and we know that she's 17 & Gideon's 28 then the abuse would have started when he was about 10 or 11. Which would have made Christopher around 5 or 6 if Elizabeth got pregnant with him right after marriage - somewhere I believe Gideon says he was 5 yrs old when Elizabeth married or maybe when his dad died and if that's the case then Sylvia's math is worst than mine - and that's hard to believe. LOL. I only bring up the ages to point my finger back at Elizabeth (can you tell I can't stand her) for relying on a 5 yrs. old Christopher to set the record straight. I kinda lead myself to believe Elizabeth is half truthing Eva and covering something up. Does Gideon remember seeing two different doctors or just Dr. Lucas?

 

What's curious is what did the therapist who brought the grad student to work with Gideon have to say about all this and what did she do with this information? Apperently nothing. She should have removed the grad student just on the accusation alone b/c even if Gideon made the whole thing up, it's still a symptom of a deep issue which makes the grad student inapproapriate on both level of knowledge/experience and the child's obvious mistrust in the student.

 

I just had to pick myself up off the floor from laughing as I'm explaining to my husband all these theories (he's never read the books, but tolerates me) and how I never thought about this or that and he just deadpanned me and said, "I bet the author's never thought about all that either." LOL, and on that note I'll stop here.



#29 LN Cronan

 

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:07 AM

The math on Gideon's age sounds right, age 10 or 11. And while he never said how old he was at the time, he did say Christopher was 5 and his mother pregnant with Ireland when he (Gideon) was placed in therapy. The conversation happened near the end of Reflected in You when Gideon finally opened up to Eva about what happened to him.

 

Eva was 10 the first time Nathan raped her. She was 14 when she had the miscarriage. She gave those ages during the conversation in Bared To You when she first told Gideon about Nathan.

 

Pediatrician Dr. Terrance Lucas is 45 at the time of Reflected in You (Eva found his age via a Google search). Subtract 18 years and he would have been 27 at the time he had been one of the two doctors Elizabeth Vidal had examine Gideon. So he would not have been that far out of medical school. Note: Sylvia has posted that Lucas was not the doctoral student who abused Gideon. But I wonder whether the doctoral student knew Lucas from school. Purely a guess on my part, but the therapist called in might have been a psychiatrist -- that is, a medical doctor who is a specialist in mental health. What if the doctoral student also was studying to be a psychiatrist? Certain branches of specialty medicine involve advanced study beyond basic medical school.



#30 Valgirl

 

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:07 AM

Lol u r not sline my family thinks im nuts too lol

#31 GiGi

 

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:27 PM

Hi Mrsmajessick, That's exactly right! Your parents swore an oath of "Non Maleficence" otherwise known as an oath to do no harm. That's why I find this entire thing just so sinister! If you have a claim of abuse you have to have a medical doctor who is completely separate from the case, to exam the child. In that way, there wouldn't be a possibility of that person being in cahoots with potential abuser, etc.. You stated that your parents are medical doctors, so if a claim of abuse came across their paths and they knew the potential victim, as a matter of potential bias, they would have to excuse themselves and the case would be referred to another person for examination. The second point is; when a child is examined for any potential physical evidence of abuse, the medical doctor can never be alone with the patient. There always has to be a nurse present! There are many reasons for establishing these protocols; it is important to establish an independent witness account of the abuse and also to prevent any further future claims of inappropriate conduct with the child. If these children were going to be physically examined, then the medical doctors would be touching their genital regions/including their rectums, etc. No doctor in his/her right mind would ever conduct that kind of exam by themselves. They could and/or should lose their license if they did. It would be considered gross malpractice. My question is; how could Elizabeth Vidal find two independent physicians and potentially their nurses (that’s 4 separate individuals) who could completely throw away their ethics and potentially their careers for money? Didn’t anyone out of this group have heart or a conscience? You also raised an interesting point about whether the doctors who examined Gideon may have been swindled by his father. What kind of sick human being would want to take out the sins of the father on the son? I would have thought that if physical evidence had been found, that these medical doctors would have contacted CPS and the police. What better way to make a human being suffer than to get CPS involved. I would think that it would be horrendously upsetting to Elizabeth Vidal if her children were taken away from her. I agree with you completely about Elizabeth's complete lack of parental concern for her child. I agree with you completely. She should have fired the entire lot of psychologists/psychiatrists/grad students, etc....whatever! The accusation alone should have terminated their services with her family. What came across from the dialogue in the book was that Elizabeth Vidal almost seemed narcissistic. She made sure that her needs were met first and foremost. Oh my goodness you are too funny! I too, have been bouncing my theories about this book (sans the naughty bits) around with a dear friend of mine. This entire situation is too hilarious! :)

#32 GiGi

 

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:35 PM

Hi LN Cronan, You make some very valid points. Is it just me or have you and everyone noticed that everyone in the book seems to be keeping secrets. 1. Gideon didn't mention it to Eva when he saw Nathan. What was his plan? 2. Monica didn't mention to Eva that she recognized Nathan in front of the Crossfire Building? Could it be that she was planning something of her own? 3. Stanton didn't mention it to Eva that Nathan was trying to extort money from him? Why? 4. I suspect that Dr. Terrance Lucas wasn't out of school yet. If kids in the U.S. graduate high school when they are 18 years old, then they would need to have four years of undergraduate studies before they can apply to medical school. Medical school is then an additional four and then any specialty is an additional 4-12years. So Dr. Lucas would have hypothetically been in his last year of medical school when the incidents with Gideon were being. Or maybe Dr. Lucas was in the process of doing his pediatric residency in school. I wonder what role Dr. Lucas played in this entire saga. Sylvia let us know that there is a lot of hatred between Gideon and Dr. Luca, but one has to wonder why? Why pick Dr. Lucas's wife to have an affair with? What Gideon did was very deliberate and I don't think that he would some random person to have a personal grudge with. Something else, more intense is going on. I suspect more might be revealed in the next book. 5. That’s what makes this forum such a great place! We have LN Cronan who has past crime reporting experience, present PR Management skills, I bring my healthcare background and experience to the table, Mrsmajessick has great mothering and life skills, Valgirl who has a great passion for the series, Crossfire who has a real no nonsense style when posting, as well as all the other ladies who have been passionately posting their thoughts/hopes/dreams and suspicions. That is what makes this such an interesting forum.

#33 Valgirl

 

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:55 PM

I luv this place u guys all rock im so anxious i so love these chsracters esp gid i think they r real lol well i hoped they were lol

#34 mrsmajessick

 

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:35 PM

I have a question. Nathan visited Gideon twice - the first time was when Eva saw Corrine outside of the Crossfire and went to Gideon's office and found the shirt she thought had lipstick on the cuff, but Sylvia's confirmed that it was blood from Gideon's confrontation with Nathan. The second time Nathan went to see Gideon was when Monica saw him coming out of the Crossfire. My question is this, if Gideon already rough him up and told him to get lost why did he go back a second time? I would think he would have been to scared to face Gideon again.

 

You bring up an interest point, GiGi, everyone treated Eva like a child and kept Nathan's appearance a secret. I think they all thought they were protecting her. It wouldn't surprise me to find out they were all plotting to kill Nathan, but Gideon beat them to the punch or should I say stab.

 

The more I think about it the more I've come to the conclusion the detective was trying to set Eva & Gideon up because they were still investigating Stanton after the detective "says" she closed the case already knowing Gideon killed Nathan, but unable to prove it.

 

There has to be a fourth book unless EWY is a 1000 pages long there's no way to tie up all the loose ends. That would be okay with me!



#35 mrsmajessick

 

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:57 PM

GiGi wrote ----"Sylvia let us know that there is a lot of hatred between Gideon and Dr. Luca, but one has to wonder why? Why pick Dr. Lucas's wife to have an affair with? What Gideon did was very deliberate and I don't think that he would some random person to have a personal grudge with. Something else, more intense is going on."

 

 

In RIY, Gideon tells Eva when they were at the beach house in South Carolina he did it because Dr. Lucas alienated him from his family. He didn't elaborate any further than that. But, when Eva confronted Dr. Lucas she's under the impression that Dr. Lucas lied about the abuse. But, Dr. Lucas says that Gideon was never a patient of his??? If he wasn't one of the two doctors to examine Gideon then how did he alienate him from his family? I think Dr. Lucas is lying because he then goes on to tell Eva that due to patient confidentiality he can't discuss it. So was Gideon a patient or not??



#36 azmich

 

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 01:13 PM

mrsm-now that I'm thinking about this, I don't think the second time Nathan was there it was to see Gideon. I'm going with Eva. Everyone seems to go to

lunch at the ad agency at 12:00. He probably couldn't get in and she wasn't there, plus she was with Megumi-the receptionist. Later that night she asks Gideon to review the tapes from outside the building because something frightened her mom. I think when Gideon does he sees it was Nathan and the wheels start turning-maybe he starts to formulate a plan. I don't know-so much surmising-so little time-wait-we've got a lot of time! Until June 4th!!!!!



#37 GiGi

 

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:31 PM

Hi LN Cronan, I just wanted to say that I made a mistake. I can't seem to find the posting where you mentioned that you thought that Nathan was a psychopath. I confused psychopath with sociopath. Sorry, this isn't my area of study...or even close to my neighbourhood...:)). According to the DSM IV(diagnostic and Statistical Manual used by psychiatrists, etc.)I think Nathan exhibits both sociopathic and psychopathic traits. Sociopaths are seen as disorganized and rash, making extreme responses to normal situations. They lack impulse control. Psychopaths, by contrast, are highly organized, often secretly planning out and fantasizing about their acts in great detail before actually committing them, and sometimes manipulating people around them. 1. Nathan went to Crossfire to potentially extort money from Gideon but got into a fight and wound up on the loosing end (an arguement for organized behaviour that quickly deescalated). 2. Nathan goes back to Crossfire on the day that Eva's mother saw him (potentially to see Eva...is that organized or disorganized?). 3. Nathan was raping and torturing Eva for several years before Eva couldn't take anymore. He then broke the cat's neck in an attempt to keep her in line. I argue that the rape and torture was organized and controlled but the breaking of the cat's neck was a disorganized attempt to keep control over Eva. Ultimately it didn't work. I don't know....if this keeps up, I am going to need therapy with all these analyses. Oh June please come soon! :)

#38 GiGi

 

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:40 PM

Hi Mrsmajessick, Great point! How did Dr. Lucas alienate Gideon from his family? Like you said, if he wasn't a patient then his connection to Gideon doesn't make sense. According to my math, Dr. Lucas would have still been in school, studying his specialty, so why would he have been out at the Vidal Estate and/or why would Elizabeth Vidal seek the advise of the residency student/graduate student over that of a highly experienced professional? Elizabeth Vidal could afford the very best care for her child. My math may be wrong about the length of time people spend in medical school in the U.S., but somehow I don't think the length of time people spend in medical/grad school and residency are all that different from Canada and the U.S. So what's the deal?

#39 GiGi

 

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 10:43 PM

 

mrsm-now that I'm thinking about this, I don't think the second time Nathan was there it was to see Gideon. I'm going with Eva. Everyone seems to go to
lunch at the ad agency at 12:00. He probably couldn't get in and she wasn't there, plus she was with Megumi-the receptionist. Later that night she asks Gideon to review the tapes from outside the building because something frightened her mom. I think when Gideon does he sees it was Nathan and the wheels start turning-maybe he starts to formulate a plan. I don't know-so much surmising-so little time-wait-we've got a lot of time! Until June 4th!!!!!

 
Hi Azmich,
What do you think Nathan was hoping to get from Eva? He hadn't had any contact with her for years. Nathan's father and Eva's mother made sure of that.

#40 LN Cronan

 

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:59 AM

mrsm-now that I'm thinking about this, I don't think the second time Nathan was there it was to see Gideon. I'm going with Eva. Everyone seems to go to

lunch at the ad agency at 12:00. He probably couldn't get in and she wasn't there, plus she was with Megumi-the receptionist. Later that night she asks Gideon to review the tapes from outside the building because something frightened her mom. I think when Gideon does he sees it was Nathan and the wheels start turning-maybe he starts to formulate a plan. I don't know-so much surmising-so little time-wait-we've got a lot of time! Until June 4th!!!!!

 

Interesting theory, azmich! Maybe to increase the pressure on Gideon and Stanton, both of whom Nathan was trying to blackmail, maybe Nathan was trying to see Eva this time and to make sure Gideon knew it. Nathan would have figured out, because he was stalking her, that she had no clue he was in town.

 

Here's the stuff we definitely know about Nathan at Crossfire, between what is contained in Reflected in You plus additional material Sylvia has given fans in response to spoiler questions:

  1. It was lunchtime both times (that we know of) Nathan showed up at the Crossfire.
  2. The first time, Nathan did meet with Gideon in his office, and a fistfight ensued.
  3. The first time, Gideon last-minute cancelled a lunch meeting he had scheduled off premises (Angus had been waiting downstairs to drive Gideon to his meeting.)
  4. Both times, Eva happened to be out of the building at lunch.
  5. The second time, Eva's mother plus the Stantons' driver/bodyguard Clancy, spotted Nathan on the sidewalk outside the Crossfire.
  6. Eva, curious about what badly spooked her mother, asked Gideon if it was possible to look at security footage to try to figure out what it was Monica saw. Gideon promised he would.

A few additional things we know (between the book and what Sylvia has posted.)

  1. The hotel where Nathan stayed (and where he died) was owned by a Cross Industries subsidiary.
  2. The security cameras in that hotel had been down for an upgrade that had been in the works for months.
  3. Eva and Gideon were away on the weekend trip to North Carolina when Nathan beat Cary half to death.
  4. Gideon found out it was Nathan very soon after he and Eva arrived back home Sunday night.
  5. It was at that point Gideon felt the danger level was too high, and he set in motion the plan to kill Nathan to save Eva's life. 
  6. It was sometime Monday morning Gideon started his act of cutting off Eva. He quit calling/texting her cell and stopped showing up at the hospital, where she was staying by Cary's side. And he took Corrine to dinner Monday night, making sure a photographer got a picture of them together.
  7. Prior to Monday, he hadn't been pulling away from Eva. The North Carolina romantic weekend away was not part of the plan (i.e he didn't take her away to lessen the blow of what would happen next.)
  8. Eva called Gideon at home Tuesday night. At the time, he was meeting with his security people there, so he cut the call off almost immediately, but not before Eva figured out he wasn't alone.

Throwing out some questions for discussion:

 

  1. After that first meeting at Crossfire, did Gideon put up Nathan at his hotel as a means to keep him under close watch?
  2. Did Gideon pick that hotel so that there wouldn't be any security footage of Nathan being there?
  3. Had Gideon been secretly been meeting with Nathan there?
  4. When Nathan showed up the second time at the Crossfire, did he see Monica Stanton outside on the sidewalk? Did he also spot her driver/bodyguard?
  5. Did Nathan ever even enter the Crossfire that second time to ask for Gideon and/or Eva? Or did he simply take off instead?
  6. If he never did enter the Crossfire the second time, did Gideon know at the time he was out on the sidewalk? Or was it Eva asking about security footage that led to Gideon finding out Nathan had appeared?
  7. What had Gideon been planning to do about Nathan prior to the attack on Cary? Was he planning to ultimately kill him even then? Or did he have something else in mind, but rejected that plan once Eva's life was in danger?
  8. How much did Angus know? How much did Gideon's security people know?

Begging Sylvia to jump in here with spoiler-question answers about one or more of the questions above :)






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