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Entwined With You Snippets


LN Cronan

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Agree, GiGi. Alas though, in our country, insurance companies, who are in it to make a profit, hate paying for specialists. Make a huge stink about specialist referrals. Hospitals/clinics are there to make profits too. And doctors are in it to make a living off what the insurance companies and their patients pay.

 

So unfortunately, there is a great deal of general practioners handling stuff that specialists really ought to. The vast, vast, VAST majority of prescriptions for antidepressants in the United States are written by family doctors, not psychiatrist. Sad (bad pun not intended there). Most people who suffer from depression end up with pills from their primary, not full evaluation by a psychiatrist. And most people who do get therapy get it from psychologist, including those with lesser degrees than PhD.

 

Because down here, the medical system is private and for profit. I hate it!!

 

Hi LNCronan,

I get the whole for profit concept of this discussion; I just don’t think that Elizabeth Vidal would have taken such a serious diagnosis lightly. I think that regardless of her personal circumstances she would have responded to something like this.

I think that with respect to her not believing Gideon’s abuse claims, maybe she figured that she would deal with things later on, when she was no longer pregnant, no longer had an infant to deal with….blah, blah, blah….

I also think that if Elizabeth had received such a devastating diagnosis for her child, she probably would have told someone, like a friend. I don’t think that she would have gone into specifics but I think she may have said something likeâ€My son was just diagnosed with a severe illness, I am so worried, and I don’t know what to do…†At which point I am sure that the person she confided in would have asked her if she had consulted a specialist (or two or three or four, etc.), a pediatric psychiatrist….that could help her son or that of another perspective.

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We''ll have to agree to disagree on Elizabeth Vidal, GiGi. You're giving the woman a lot more credit that I am.

 

I'm not saying she ever stopped loving her son. It's apparent she still does. But he was a very messed up kid. He'd be the first to admit it. I think Elizabeth Vidal, based on what "professionals" claimed, believed without question that Gideon was even more damaged than she originally thought.

 

Here's my theories ....

 

We know, because of the limited info Eva has been told, that Elizabeth believed the death of his father messed him up as a little boy. Now all of a sudden, she's got professionals claiming the kid is really damaged, even worse that she feared. He's not just an angry kid. He's a little narcissist and sociopath. Meanwhile, now  Gideon's anger would have suddenly gotten much worse. Proof he's not simply an angry kid.

 

Why would Gideon get angrier? Because if Gideon hadn't already been raped before then, it was going to start happening soon. All because Elizabeth believed professionals who said Gideon was a little liar desperate for attention. She failed to protect him. Now the abuser has a clear shot to do whatever he wants to helpless Gideon. 

 

I think Elizabeth Vidal is a poor excuse for a wife and mother and it is karmic justice that even though, all these years later, she still loves Gideon, he can't stand her.

 

Gideon was raped, which damaged him but didn't destroy him. And it might be in Entwined we find out there's a lot more to his father's suicide than we originally assumed. That maybe even the guy blew his head off at home, and 5-year-old Gideon saw the body.

 

Here's what his avenging Angel (go Eva) said as her parting words to Elizabeth Vidal (Reflected page 299)

 

(Eva says ) " ..... he's broken and hurting and doesn't think he's worth loving. And you helped make him that way."

"Go to h***." (Elizabeth) stormed off.

"I'm already there," I shouted after her. "And so is your son."

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Hi LNCronan,

I am not giving Elizabeth Vidal more credit than you. I am just simply willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on this one issue. I am sure that the mothers in this forum would agree that they try their best when they raise their children and yes they make mistakes.

Now Elizabeth Vidal made a HORRIBLE mistake in not believing her son about the abuse. That one issue would be more than enough reason for Gideon to walk away from his mother (and never speak to her again!). Absolutely no one would blame him for that.

I just don’t see Elizabeth Vidal buying that crap from a doctoral student and a pediatrician without sitting back and getting another opinion (several opinions) from specialists. Making up stories (about the abuse) and being angry doesn’t qualify a person for sociopathic or psychopathic status! Come on! All of a sudden I am expected to believe that Elizabeth Vidal is a complete idiot? Crap!! I also don’t think that she would have mentioned any of this to Gideon.

None of the therapist’s claims can be supported at all! Gideon’s anger is only proof of one thing; he is ANGRY!! Anger in itself doesn’t prove any severe mental illness! He wasn’t setting the family pets on fire, or dissecting them! Again this is common sense! Surely Sylvia isn’t asking the reader to COMPLETELY SUSPEND ALL COMMON SENSE in order to believe that? I don’t buy it!!!

Your theory expects that Gideon’s mother wouldn’t have gotten several opinions from other specialists about such severe mental diagnoses, that she wouldn’t have done any research about these illnesses to see for herself if her son fit the criteria and that she just would buy everything lock stock and barrel doesn’t jive.

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Morning, GiGi ....

My opinion is exactly that -- she didn't get additional opinions from other specialists. Wanna know why (in addition to the fact the woman was a rotten mother.) Who's paying the bills? Mr. Christopher Vidal Sr., that's who.

Who probably just bribed a couple of pediatricians in order to completely cover up the crime. Bribes that would go to waste if another set of specialists got involved -- because the more people involved, the greater the chance that one of them "can't be bought" and would blow the whistle to outside authorities, which is the ethical and legal thing a medical professional is required to do.

Here's my set of theories about how it all went down.

 

  • Self-centered Elizabeth Vidal is all wrapped up in being coddled through her rough pregnancy.
  • The psychologist/psychiatrist Vidal originally hired to treat Gideon has instead shifted all her attention to Elizabeth. Because Vidal pays her extra to do so.
  • Remember, Vidal wasn't getting Gideon help for the kid's own sake. It was for the sake of his stressed wife and own son (Christopher Jr.) who'd started imitating Gideon's physical outbursts.
  • Gideon gets shunted off onto the male doctoral student who'd been accompanying the main therapist now working with Elizabeth.
  • The guy starts "treating" Gideon -- and abusing him. No one's really looking anyway. Not even his own supervisor.
  • Something happens that gets Elizabeth's attention. Someone raises concerns. (Angus, maybe, who spends alone time with Gideon driving him to and from and can see something has changed. Angus does not know what exactly really is wrong, only that something's now really off)
  • The doctoral student (who is, in the United States, already qualified by his lesser degrees to diagnose some conditions) feeds Elizabeth the story that Gideon's a liar and seriously ill.
  • Vidal offers to get a sort of "second opinion" but not from another shrink. From a pediatrician.
  • Pediatrician number one comes in. Genuinely finds nothing physical, because at the time, the abuse involved hand jobs, which would not leave physical trauma signs. Tells Elizabeth the exam found nothing.
  • Vidal bribes the pediatrician to keep his/her mouth shut instead of outside reporting the mere accusations abuse might be going on. Yes, the pediatrician was doing something unethical and illegal by keeping his/her mouth shut. But after all, there weren't marks on the kid. So the doctor accepts a second fat check (on top of the original consultation fee Vidal paid) to keep quiet.
  • The doctoral student then says, "See. I was right. Your son is lying. Because he's mentally ill and needs help. Let me try to work with him."
  • Abuser is allowed to continue to treat Gideon. Escalates to anal r*** Now the coast is clear, because the kid's own mother doesn't believe a word the kid is saying.
  • Something about Gideon continues to make Elizabeth uneasy. Vidal says, "Dear, I'll put your mind at ease. How about we get a second opinion with another pediatrician?"
  • Vidal hires Dr. Lucas as the second pediatrician. At the time, Lucas is fresh out of medical school and probably saddled with well over $100,000 in student loans to pay back. He was already bought even before he stepped foot in the Vidal mansion.
  • Lucas examines Gideon -- and does find the unmistakable physical trauma marks forcible anal r*** leaves on a child.
  • Vidal seriously ups the bribe. Not only does he offer to pay Lucas' loans, but he offers to help Lucas get established in practice. Lucas, a greedy and socially ambitious man, sells his soul.
  • At this point, Vidal does get rid of the doctoral student and the shrink too, in order to continue to cover up the crime against Gideon AND Vidal's own crime of bribery.
  • Elizabeth is persuaded to accept the fact the kid has personality disorders and there's not much that can be done.


Note: in real life, personality disorders are extremely difficult to treat -- the mental health community has not yet figured out how to really fix folks broken with things like narcissism and borderline personality disorder (the formal name for sociopath.) The treatments currently available are of limited use. Borderline especially, a friend of mine who is a psychologist one told me, the bane of therapists existence.

Gideon never gets another bit of professional help. Grows up an "alienated" kid in his own family. Dismissed as effed up. Not truly loved by his mother, who is too wrapped up in her own social life. Ignored by his stepfather, who is a rotten human being behind closed doors. Gideon shuts himself down into a shell, creating the mask he would later be able to don so quickly as a man. Counts the days until he's 18.

But one adult does care and does become a positive role model in his life -- almost a surrogate Dad to replace the biological one who killed himself and the step one who failed him utterly. Angus. Angus teaches Gideon how to channel his anger positively through physical activity (like learning martial arts.) And who listens to Gideon driving him to and from school, asking him about his day. Every day. Earns Gideon's lifelong loyalty, and soon after Gideon finally leaves that household and has the money to take Angus with him, hires Angus.

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I don’t know, I think Cary is going to have to know that Gideon and

Eva are together. Probably on he and Angus will know….maybe Scott for those—ahem—visits

to the office? They seem to be spending time at Eva’s apartment in the

snippets. I’m sure he’ll keep it a secret…maybe Eva will even tell him about

Nathan, that it was he who attacked him? I feel that Cary really, truly cares for Eva. Even though

he was sneaky w/ the whole Six Ninths concert.

 

 

 

I got excited when Sylvia said she had

something to announce today…nothing about Crossfire series though, not yet L

 

 

 

Do we think Victor is going to figure

everything out? I really do. He has to, no? I think he may actually be ok w/

what Gideon did. I mean, that’s his daughter, his baby girl…and even though he’s

a cop, he’s a dad first. Maybe Gideon’s going to ask him for Eva’s hand in

marriage?? Lol J That’ll be a funny convo…’You want to marry my daughter? Tell me what

happened to that dirt bag who hurt her’….Or not…lol… A Victor snippet may be

fun too…

 

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I don’t know, I think Cary is going to have to know that Gideon and
Eva are together. Probably on he and Angus will know….maybe Scott for those—ahem—visits
to the office? They seem to be spending time at Eva’s apartment in the
snippets. I’m sure he’ll keep it a secret…maybe Eva will even tell him about
Nathan, that it was he who attacked him? I feel that Cary really, truly cares for Eva. Even though
he was sneaky w/ the whole Six Ninths concert.



I got excited when Sylvia said she had
something to announce today…nothing about Crossfire series though, not yet L


Do we think Victor is going to figure
everything out? I really do. He has to, no? I think he may actually be ok w/
what Gideon did. I mean, that’s his daughter, his baby girl…and even though he’s
a cop, he’s a dad first. Maybe Gideon’s going to ask him for Eva’s hand in
marriage?? Lol J That’ll be a funny convo…’You want to marry my daughter? Tell me what
happened to that dirt bag who hurt her’….Or not…lol… A Victor snippet may be
fun too…



 

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Re: Victor, Eva's father, I wonder whether Eva's new friend (or possible worse nightmare) Detective Shelley Graves is going to spill the beans to Eva's Dad too. Graves knows he's a cop -- and Victor briefly met Graves at Eva's apartment the night the detectives  showed up to question Eva, so Victor know Graves' name plus the fact she works in homicide at the NYPD. 

 

To Eva's knowledge (and thus our knowledge) we don't know who Victor's been talking to. But he's got to be asking questions, and my guess is he's decided to ask other people instead of Eva herself. And hitting a wall of silence. Cary's not going to tell him Nathan was a rapist, not a "bully." If he tried reaching Monica about her now-deceased former stepson, Monica wouldn't even return a call. Gideon? Yeah, right, Victor, try getting any answers out of that guy. 

 

And so finally frustrated by the fact no one around Eva will talk, Victor decides to try police back channels. A phone call to Graves? Maybe he's even already tried it days ago, but got silence from Graves. But now for her own motives, Graves is willing to tell Victor things.

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I hope to see more of Victor in EWY!

Maybe a hot sex scene of his own? LOL!

There is no way that that Victor is not sniffing around to find out why Eva reacted so emotionally when the detectives told her that Nathan was in NYC. And I cannot envision him being against Gideon when he finds out all that transpired with Nathan.

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I don’t know, I think Cary is going to have to know that Gideon and

Eva are together. Probably on he and Angus will know….maybe Scott for those—ahem—visits

to the office? They seem to be spending time at Eva’s apartment in the

snippets. I’m sure he’ll keep it a secret…maybe Eva will even tell him about

Nathan, that it was he who attacked him? I feel that Cary really, truly cares for Eva. Even though

he was sneaky w/ the whole Six Ninths concert.

I got excited when Sylvia said she had

something to announce today…nothing about Crossfire series though, not yet L

Do we think Victor is going to figure

everything out? I really do. He has to, no? I think he may actually be ok w/

what Gideon did. I mean, that’s his daughter, his baby girl…and even though he’s

a cop, he’s a dad first. Maybe Gideon’s going to ask him for Eva’s hand in

marriage?? Lol J That’ll be a funny convo…’You want to marry my daughter? Tell me what

happened to that dirt bag who hurt her’….Or not…lol… A Victor snippet may be

fun too…

 

 

Hi Nathalia,

I hope that Victor is in the next book. If Victor does find out about his daughter’s past, I hope it is because of his good detective skills and that his radar went up on the night the detectives came to Eva’s apartment. I think that there could be some really interesting scenes between Eva and her dad, if he had to go and find out what was going on?

Maybe it could bring up some of Eva’s trust issues (or lack thereof where her dad is concerned). It could also stir up some really interesting dialogue between Victor and Eva’s mother Monica. Oh to be a fly on that wall, while Monica tries to explain why she kept Victor in the dark all these years.

I think it would be really interesting too to see if Victor finds out who killed Nathan and how he reacts to that. I personally think that Victor would support whoever killed the man who brutalized his daughter. Oh June 4th can’t come soon enough! :)

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Re: Victor, Eva's father, I wonder whether Eva's new friend (or possible worse nightmare) Detective Shelley Graves is going to spill the beans to Eva's Dad too. Graves knows he's a cop -- and Victor briefly met Graves at Eva's apartment the night the detectives  showed up to question Eva, so Victor know Graves' name plus the fact she works in homicide at the NYPD. 

 

To Eva's knowledge (and thus our knowledge) we don't know who Victor's been talking to. But he's got to be asking questions, and my guess is he's decided to ask other people instead of Eva herself. And hitting a wall of silence. Cary's not going to tell him Nathan was a rapist, not a "bully." If he tried reaching Monica about her now-deceased former stepson, Monica wouldn't even return a call. Gideon? Yeah, right, Victor, try getting any answers out of that guy. 

 

And so finally frustrated by the fact no one around Eva will talk, Victor decides to try police back channels. A phone call to Graves? Maybe he's even already tried it days ago, but got silence from Graves. But now for her own motives, Graves is willing to tell Victor things.

 

Hi LNCronan,

I hope Victor finds out the good old fashioned way, with his detective skills. I think that could make for some really interesting dialogue between all of the characters and it could also provide for more friction and possibly more interesting storylines. Could you just imagine the discussions? Juicy! Sigh!!

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Morning, GiGi ....

My opinion is exactly that -- she didn't get additional opinions from other specialists. Wanna know why (in addition to the fact the woman was a rotten mother.) Who's paying the bills? Mr. Christopher Vidal Sr., that's who.

Who probably just bribed a couple of pediatricians in order to completely cover up the crime. Bribes that would go to waste if another set of specialists got involved -- because the more people involved, the greater the chance that one of them "can't be bought" and would blow the whistle to outside authorities, which is the ethical and legal thing a medical professional is required to do.

Here's my set of theories about how it all went down.

 

  • Self-centered Elizabeth Vidal is all wrapped up in being coddled through her rough pregnancy.
  • The psychologist/psychiatrist Vidal originally hired to treat Gideon has instead shifted all her attention to Elizabeth. Because Vidal pays her extra to do so.
  • Remember, Vidal wasn't getting Gideon help for the kid's own sake. It was for the sake of his stressed wife and own son (Christopher Jr.) who'd started imitating Gideon's physical outbursts.
  • Gideon gets shunted off onto the male doctoral student who'd been accompanying the main therapist now working with Elizabeth.
  • The guy starts "treating" Gideon -- and abusing him. No one's really looking anyway. Not even his own supervisor.
  • Something happens that gets Elizabeth's attention. Someone raises concerns. (Angus, maybe, who spends alone time with Gideon driving him to and from and can see something has changed. Angus does not know what exactly really is wrong, only that something's now really off)
  • The doctoral student (who is, in the United States, already qualified by his lesser degrees to diagnose some conditions) feeds Elizabeth the story that Gideon's a liar and seriously ill.
  • Vidal offers to get a sort of "second opinion" but not from another shrink. From a pediatrician.
  • Pediatrician number one comes in. Genuinely finds nothing physical, because at the time, the abuse involved hand jobs, which would not leave physical trauma signs. Tells Elizabeth the exam found nothing.
  • Vidal bribes the pediatrician to keep his/her mouth shut instead of outside reporting the mere accusations abuse might be going on. Yes, the pediatrician was doing something unethical and illegal by keeping his/her mouth shut. But after all, there weren't marks on the kid. So the doctor accepts a second fat check (on top of the original consultation fee Vidal paid) to keep quiet.
  • The doctoral student then says, "See. I was right. Your son is lying. Because he's mentally ill and needs help. Let me try to work with him."
  • Abuser is allowed to continue to treat Gideon. Escalates to anal r*** Now the coast is clear, because the kid's own mother doesn't believe a word the kid is saying.
  • Something about Gideon continues to make Elizabeth uneasy. Vidal says, "Dear, I'll put your mind at ease. How about we get a second opinion with another pediatrician?"
  • Vidal hires Dr. Lucas as the second pediatrician. At the time, Lucas is fresh out of medical school and probably saddled with well over $100,000 in student loans to pay back. He was already bought even before he stepped foot in the Vidal mansion.
  • Lucas examines Gideon -- and does find the unmistakable physical trauma marks forcible anal r*** leaves on a child.
  • Vidal seriously ups the bribe. Not only does he offer to pay Lucas' loans, but he offers to help Lucas get established in practice. Lucas, a greedy and socially ambitious man, sells his soul.
  • At this point, Vidal does get rid of the doctoral student and the shrink too, in order to continue to cover up the crime against Gideon AND Vidal's own crime of bribery.
  • Elizabeth is persuaded to accept the fact the kid has personality disorders and there's not much that can be done.
Note: in real life, personality disorders are extremely difficult to treat -- the mental health community has not yet figured out how to really fix folks broken with things like narcissism and borderline personality disorder (the formal name for sociopath.) The treatments currently available are of limited use. Borderline especially, a friend of mine who is a psychologist one told me, the bane of therapists existence.

Gideon never gets another bit of professional help. Grows up an "alienated" kid in his own family. Dismissed as effed up. Not truly loved by his mother, who is too wrapped up in her own social life. Ignored by his stepfather, who is a rotten human being behind closed doors. Gideon shuts himself down into a shell, creating the mask he would later be able to don so quickly as a man. Counts the days until he's 18.

But one adult does care and does become a positive role model in his life -- almost a surrogate Dad to replace the biological one who killed himself and the step one who failed him utterly. Angus. Angus teaches Gideon how to channel his anger positively through physical activity (like learning martial arts.) And who listens to Gideon driving him to and from school, asking him about his day. Every day. Earns Gideon's lifelong loyalty, and soon after Gideon finally leaves that household and has the money to take Angus with him, hires Angus.

 

Hi LNCronan,

You just contradicted yourself. I can complete buy the fact Vidal Sr. probably sold his wife a “bill of goods†(i.e. He gave her some crap excuse about the pediatricians saying they couldn’t find any abuse) because he was paying the bills, but I don’t see Elizabeth Vidal doing that voluntarily. She was having a difficult pregnancy after all so I could see her letting her husband shoulder the responsibility for details such; the referrals, payment of specialist etc.. I state it before and I will state it again, I think it behooves Vidal Sr. to find something wrong with his step son. It would have given him the perfect ammunition to alienate him from his mother and from Vidal’s own family.

• If Corinne is not a good woman it is because Gideon made her that way with all of his lies (by omission) and complete lack of honesty.

• Sylvia herself said that Corinne was a good woman, so is Sylvia now lying to us as well. First we can believe her words and then we can’t. Which is it?

• Once you are a student you aren’t “qualified†to practice on clients or patients. I could go into specifics as to why this is the case but I won’t bore everyone unless people want specifics. As a student this man isn’t insurable/he is still a student/regardless of it being grad school.

• The list of criteria for these mental illnesses is freaking long and they completely CONTRADICT Gideon’s character traits. 90% of the world’s population fits some of the criteria of one or the other illnesses. That doesn’t make them mentally ill. You have to fit all the criteria in order to get that kind of diagnosis. Gideon didn’t exhibit even one as a child.

• Psychiatry as a profession is one of the first to admit, that some professionals are eager to label patients and in doing so, patients can be misdiagnosed (which can have devastating effects) and improperly medicated.

• If a child was that ill, a parent would be concerned about the potential physical harm to any other siblings. This didn’t seem to be the case for Gideon and his family.

I think it will be interesting to see how much of a role Christopher Vidal Sr. played in this entire scenario and why Gideon wound up with controlling interest of Vidal records.

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Hi LNCronan,

I hope Victor finds out the good old fashioned way, with his detective skills. I think that could make for some really interesting dialogue between all of the characters and it could also provide for more friction and possibly more interesting storylines. Could you just imagine the discussions? Juicy! Sigh!!

 

I can see Victor initially as very anti-Gideon when he learns just enough to know Gideon is a suspected murderer, horrified at what Gideon did and he (Victor) wanting to save his daughter from having anything to do with a very dangerous man. But then when Victor learns the full truth about why Gideon did it, he'll come over to Gideon's side, understanding that Gideon saved his daughter's life from a rapist/stalker would-be killer. Victor would wish he'd had the chance to kill Nathan himself.

 

It'd be sweet, too, if Victor on his own, using his own police skills, figures out the deep, dark secret of Nathan's criminal past, his more recent crimes (like beating Cary half to death) and just how truly dangerous a man Nathan had been. In other words, Victor puts the pieces together himself instead of getting the info leaked to him by Detective Graves.

 

Victor is a street cop, pieces of the story strongly suggests. On her desk at work, Eva's got a picture of him in his cruiser, during one of her weekly calls to her Dad, he had to cut the conversation short in order to respond to a police call, and in the not-too-distant past, he pulled over one of Eva's then-boyfriends getting a b*** job from another woman. I envision him as a patrol supervisor -- skilled and experienced, overseeing much younger cops, but still out there on the street himself, the most dangerous position in police ranks. Salt of the earth and a courageous man to stay out there at an age where he easily could be behind a desk.

 

Detective Shelley Graves is at the opposite end of the police spectrum from street cop. She is a homicide detective, the elite of the elite. Cops need to possess outstanding skills and a long track record of solving cases in order to get there. Plus many detectives, especially homicide ones, usually are college educated, having degrees in criminal justice. Another contrast to Victor, who worked hard to pay Eva's tuition for San Diego State but probably never went to college himself.

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Last thing for the morning, in answer to GiGi's rhetorical question, "Sylvia herself said that Corinne was a good woman, so is Sylvia now lying to us as well. First we can believe her words and then we can't Which is it?

Two words: red herring. Making us believe something at a certain point in the unfolding narrative. Which is different from lying. Something might be true at first, but then radically change later. Which is different from something never having been true to begin with. The very nature of the literary device red herring is to deliberately mislead the reader into believing one thing in order to send the reader down one path. But then later  -- boom -- the plot twists and leads the reader down another path, to where the story had been going all along -- a different place. Red herrings are always one of two things: something that used to be true becoming no longer true -- or -- something was never true to begin with.

 

I think with Corrine, she started out as actually good. But jealousy and desperation later changed her into something else. Maybe at the time of Bared, when Sylvia said Corrine was good, Corrine actually was. But what Sylvia did not say was Corrine would always remain good, That in Reflected and Entwined, Corrine would still be good. See the difference?

At the time, Sylvia said Corrine was good, this was the Corrine we all met at the very end Bared to You. The only Corrine in existence to the outside world then. Bared was the only Crossfire novel published: Reflected had not yet been released, and Entwined was still in the process of being written.

The Corrine we see through Eva's eyes in Bared was sweet, kind, and even soothing. Corrine herself told Eva she was grateful to Eva for changing Gideon's life. But we did have a little red flag - Corrine was phoning Gideon daily. Actively pursuing him, in other words. And at the end of Bared, Corrine had just an hour before finally met Eva -- and seen Gideon with Eva -- for the first time with her own eyes.

 

The Corrine we see in Reflected is a conniver determined to destroy what Gideon has with Eva by running Eva off for good, doing so by calculatedly manipulating Eva's weaknesses. This is not a good woman anymore. What changed? Now she knows for certain the man she's been in love with for ten years really has fallen passionately in love with Eva. Corrine's hopes have turned bitter, and with them, herself. She's no longer the kind person who crashed that fundraiser dinner. That night changed her life forever, and next morning, day one of Reflected, she woke up a different person.

Here's a hypothetical of Sylvia saying something is true at the time of Bared but then later becomes not true,  because a character changes.

 

What if someone asked Sylvia, when only Bared was out, whether or not Gideon was a violent adult. We knew then that he had violent nightmares of himself as a teenager hurting the man who raped him. Maybe those nightmares were revenge fantasy. Gideon never actually acted with great violence in real life, either as a teen or as a man at that point in time. So if Sylvia was asked then whether or not Gideon actually is violent (when awake) Sylvia might have said Gideon's extremely violent only in his dreams. She'd certainly never say something at that time Gideon is capable of cold-blooded murder. So it would be a red herring to let us think Gideon would always remain a good man not capable of extreme violence.


In Reflected, the very character of Gideon himself changed to someone capable of the ultimate violence - stabbing a man to death in cold blood in a very calculated plot to get him. But this was because Gideon's own life changed. Nathan evolved from someone just in Eva's past to a present-day blackmailer and then to a dangerously violent man capable of murder himself and a real danger to the one person Gideon loved with all his heart and soul. For the very best of motives (to save Eva's life) Gideon turned into a killer.

I hope that makes sense -- that Sylvia might say one thing about a character to describe how that character publicly stood at the time she said it, but then later on, the character changes (for the better or worse.) as the narrative evolves and later books are published.

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In the United States medical system, which is a private for-profit system truly run by the insurance companies paying the bills, PhD students who already possess bachelor's and/or masters degrees in psychology are medically/legally qualified to diagnose and treat some patients. And be paid to do it by insurance companies. Even while still in school studying for a doctorate. Happens all the time, especially because it's not uncommon in the United States for someone to get his/her bachelors and masters degrees studying full time, then start working full time in the human services/mental health profession while simultaneously going to school part time in order to pursue a PhD.

 

I've had two friends do just this (in fact, one of them with a master's in clinical social work has been working for more than a decade as a therapist at a psychiatric hospital while studying, one course at a time, to get her doctorate.) By the time my friend has her PhD, she'll also have many years of clinical experience under her belt. Already, she's far more of a real-life skilled professional to treat patients than some newly-minted PhD who went to college full-time uninterrupted. When that newly-minted PhD was still in high school, my friend was working full-time helping people get better and was already taking post-graduate level courses.

 

I'm not saying how the Vidals handled Gideon was right. Ethically it was all wrong, and legally some very serious laws were broken. However, the medical ethics and legal violations did not include having a person studying for but not yet completed a PhD provide anger-management therapy to a patient. Most especially someone under the (supposed) direct supervision of a clinician (the woman) who was either a PhD psychologist or a medical doctor psychiatrist.

 

Honestly, GiGi, I live less than an hour south of the Canadian border, and there are some times when I wish I were a citizen of your country. Whose medical system, I believe, is much fairer and much more ethical -- the only goal being providing the best possible care for patients. And whose standards of care are much higher, including the standard of which professionals provide what treatments. Down here, the goal is for the hospitals, medical insurance companies, and especially the drug companies, to make the best possible profits. Which means whenever possible paying clinicians who do not bear the title "Dr." to treat patients. They're far less expensive than Drs. And if someone requires a medical doctor, trying whenever possible to have primary care physicians manage chronic conditions instead of specialists.

 

And with that, I'm climbing down off my soap box about how medical patients in this country suffer financially -- and how it is all too feasible for even filthy rich parents privately paying out of pocket and able to afford the best to actually be able to get away with short-changing the level of care given to a child they didn't care about enough. Except for the whole sexual abuse thing and the cover-up, the level of care Gideon got passed muster here.  In fact, if he were a regular kid with medical insurance, he most likely would have gotten therapy from a non-PhD. And only after his parents fought the insurance company to agree to let him see a therapist.

 

Very, very sad :( :( :(

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Hi LNCronan,

I can only see that scenario if Victor didn’t do any investigating of his own before finding out about Gideon and that wouldn’t make sense to me. Why bother trying to dig up dirt on someone who by all appearances is squeaky clean? Other than being seen with Corinne out at dinner, Victor would have no reason to start investigating Gideon. The only way I could see Victor digging is if he found out about what happened to Eva when she was younger.

Yes I could see the argument being made that if Eva was dating Gideon that would be reason enough for Victor to start digging, but I think that Eva’s reactions while the detectives questioned her would have raised huge flags for me and maybe for Victor too.

I don’t know whether Detective Graves would actually drop a bomb like (Eva’s past rape etc.) that on Victor. Quite frankly I don’t think that Victor would be too inclined to be “grateful†to the kind detectives for imparting that kind of information to him. If anything I could see that type of scenario backfiring on Detective Graves.

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Last thing for the morning, in answer to GiGi's rhetorical question, "Sylvia herself said that Corinne was a good woman, so is Sylvia now lying to us as well. First we can believe her words and then we can't Which is it?

Two words: red herring. Making us believe something at a certain point in the unfolding narrative. Which is different from lying. Something might be true at first, but then radically change later. Which is different from something never having been true to begin with. The very nature of the literary device red herring is to deliberately mislead the reader into believing one thing in order to send the reader down one path. But then later  -- boom -- the plot twists and leads the reader down another path, to where the story had been going all along -- a different place. Red herrings are always one of two things: something that used to be true becoming no longer true -- or -- something was never true to begin with.

 

I think with Corrine, she started out as actually good. But jealousy and desperation later changed her into something else. Maybe at the time of Bared, when Sylvia said Corrine was good, Corrine actually was. But what Sylvia did not say was Corrine would always remain good, That in Reflected and Entwined, Corrine would still be good. See the difference?

At the time, Sylvia said Corrine was good, this was the Corrine we all met at the very end Bared to You. The only Corrine in existence to the outside world then. Bared was the only Crossfire novel published: Reflected had not yet been released, and Entwined was still in the process of being written.

The Corrine we see through Eva's eyes in Bared was sweet, kind, and even soothing. Corrine herself told Eva she was grateful to Eva for changing Gideon's life. But we did have a little red flag - Corrine was phoning Gideon daily. Actively pursuing him, in other words. And at the end of Bared, Corrine had just an hour before finally met Eva -- and seen Gideon with Eva -- for the first time with her own eyes.

 

The Corrine we see in Reflected is a conniver determined to destroy what Gideon has with Eva by running Eva off for good, doing so by calculatedly manipulating Eva's weaknesses. This is not a good woman anymore. What changed? Now she knows for certain the man she's been in love with for ten years really has fallen passionately in love with Eva. Corrine's hopes have turned bitter, and with them, herself. She's no longer the kind person who crashed that fundraiser dinner. That night changed her life forever, and next morning, day one of Reflected, she woke up a different person.

Here's a hypothetical of Sylvia saying something is true at the time of Bared but then later becomes not true,  because a character changes.

 

What if someone asked Sylvia, when only Bared was out, whether or not Gideon was a violent adult. We knew then that he had violent nightmares of himself as a teenager hurting the man who raped him. Maybe those nightmares were revenge fantasy. Gideon never actually acted with great violence in real life, either as a teen or as a man at that point in time. So if Sylvia was asked then whether or not Gideon actually is violent (when awake) Sylvia might have said Gideon's extremely violent only in his dreams. She'd certainly never say something at that time Gideon is capable of cold-blooded murder. So it would be a red herring to let us think Gideon would always remain a good man not capable of extreme violence.

In Reflected, the very character of Gideon himself changed to someone capable of the ultimate violence - stabbing a man to death in cold blood in a very calculated plot to get him. But this was because Gideon's own life changed. Nathan evolved from someone just in Eva's past to a present-day blackmailer and then to a dangerously violent man capable of murder himself and a real danger to the one person Gideon loved with all his heart and soul. For the very best of motives (to save Eva's life) Gideon turned into a killer.

I hope that makes sense -- that Sylvia might say one thing about a character to describe how that character publicly stood at the time she said it, but then later on, the character changes (for the better or worse.) as the narrative evolves and later books are published.

 

Hi LNCronan,

I am beginning wonder whether all of this waiting has turned you into a “red herring†hunter (wink, wink) :). I just wanted to clarify from stand point that Nathan was always dangerous. He escalated from cat killer, brutal rapist and torturer, blackmailer and yes potential murderer (I take it from Detective Graves view Nathan was plotting Eva’s demise). I could also imagine that Nathan was busy torturing and killing neighbourhood cats before he escalated to his violent crimes. I would almost bet money on it.

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Hi LNCronan,

I have a friend’s daughter who is studying to become a doctor of psychology and although she can work as a T.A. (teacher’s assistant), she cannot legally take on patients or set up a clinical practice. She has completed her Master’s degree and is working on her PhD. Just because you have a degree in psychology doesn’t mean that you can treat patients. In order to see patients in Canada, a person has to take extra courses and diplomas asides from a Master’s or PhD level degree. I find it astounding that the US Educational system would be that different.

I also find it borderline horrifying that someone with a lowly Master’s degree can diagnose someone with such a severe mental illness with so little education, no clinical support (or colleague support) or support from the mental health system. If that student was going through school directly (i.e., bachelor’s to PhD) then he wouldn’t be eligible to treat patients. I am telling you something about that scenario stinks!!

I should also mention that I have another friend’s daughter who is studying to become a psychiatrist. She has finished her undergrad (i.e. medical school), but she also CANNOT practice medicine yet or treat patients on her own (i.e. She can’t set up a clinical practice and continue her schooling). She is now doing her specialty in Psychiatry and is doing her hospital rotation, but she has to answer to her supervisor, the hospital board and psychiatric team. She is able to see patients under supervised conditions and is insured by the University and the hospital where she does her clinical rotation.

Oh June 4th come quickly so we can settle this subject once and for all! :)

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If Corrine is going to go all "Fatal Attraction," (as we're joking) it's a good thing Eva doesn't own a pet anything. Cat, dog, bunny, goldfish.

 

Seriously, though, the horror of having her pet cat killed and left on her bed as a warning to keep silent she's being systematically raped in her own home is awful. When Eva told Gideon that part of the story, his immediate response was ...

 

"Jesus Christ." His chest was heaving. "He wasn't just f****** up, he was insane."

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Hi LNCronan,

I am beginning wonder whether all of this waiting has turned you into a “red herring†hunter (wink, wink) :). I just wanted to clarify from stand point that Nathan was always dangerous. He escalated from cat killer, brutal rapist and torturer, blackmailer and yes potential murderer (I take it from Detective Graves view Nathan was plotting Eva’s demise). I could also imagine that Nathan was busy torturing and killing neighbourhood cats before he escalated to his violent crimes. I would almost bet money on it.

 

Yep, Nathan always was dangerous - no question. Even as a teen-ager, he was a truly evil individual. One could argue that the potential for anything, even murder, was there from the get-go, probably from even when Nathan was a kid.

 

But there's a huge, very scary difference between being "capable of anything" and actually being actively homicidal. All the signs pointed to Nathan having escalated all the way to being actively homicidal, and what's worse, his self control was starting to slip -- so it was only a matter of time before he killed.

 

Detective Graves does not believe Nathan had set out to kill Cary. Her theory was the beating was meant to intimidate Gideon. But here's the awful thing - once Nathan got going, he went postal. And he could have ended up killing Cary anyway. Even one good blow to the head with a bat can cause a fatal head injury. Same deal with blows to the chest hard enough to break ribs -- that can cause fatal internal injuries.

 

Someone can start by simply meaning to beat someone up and lose control so badly the person ends up killing the victim. Especially when a person is using a weapon like a bat. Even when using something like a pool stick or a bottle.  That happens all the time in fatal barroom brawls.

 

Unlike Gideon, who supposedly maintains enough control to know when to stop, Nathan went into a frenzy. I don't believe for a second Nathan stopped on his own -- he got interrupted and ran. (You know what my theory on that is -- the person tailing him at a safe distance came running, but I'm willing to concede some bystander approached.)

 

I further believe that soon after he learned about the beating, Gideon had his security people search Nathan's hotel room top to bottom -- and would have gotten the same expert conclusion that Graves came to, which was the sort of stuff found is the sort of stuff one finds after a stalker has killed his/her victim. Stuff found "after it's too late" is how Graves characterized it.

 

After all, the best of the best private security people are elite retired cops and military, who upon achieving minimum retirement age, trade their public servant salaries for extremely lucrative private salaries in the security profession.

 

Gideon had some sort of private meeting with his security people Tuesday night at his apartment. My guess is the expert opinion he got was Nathan was a full-fledged homicidal maniac, an expert opinion from one or more retired homicide cops now working for him.

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I think that Victor would be capable of harming Nathan if he found out what Nathan had done to Eva and if he knew that Nathan was in NYC stalking Eva.

I think that Detective Graves probably assumed that Victor knew what Nathan did to Eva in California.

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I think that Victor would be capable of harming Nathan if he found out what Nathan had done to Eva and if he knew that Nathan was in NYC stalking Eva.

I think that Detective Graves probably assumed that Victor knew what Nathan did to Eva in California.

 

Detective Graves showed up at Eva's that night as part of starting to investigate everyone with good reason for wanting Nathan dead, one of whom is Eva.

 

Graves partially lucked out that Eva's father was there, lucked out in that he's a cop who might end up being useful to Graves in the future. Short-term, though, it was rotten luck, because as soon as Victor realized those were homicide detectives actively investigating a case in which Eva might have been involved, he cut off all questioning and told them to leave.

 

However, the cops pretty much got what they needed from Eva before her Dad ordered them to leave. By Eva's own honest reactions, they determined no way was she involved. She didn't even know Nathan was in town, let alone Nathan was stalking her and trying to blackmail her rich stepfather and insanely rich boyfriend. They immediately could cross her right off their list of suspects, accessories, and/or knowledgeable insiders. Why do you think they never did call her down to the police station, lawyer beside her, to ask more questions. They don't need to (at least yet -- they might need her later against Gideon.)

 

Graves also lucked out by figuring out Eva's father didn't even have the first clue about who Nathan was, let alone how sick and dangerous the guy was. And the fact that Eva tried explaining him away as just some bully to her Dad made it apparent Eva wasn't going to tell him the truth.

 

Graves lucked out also that Gideon just happened to be there. (Dumb, but he had to go through with the dinner.) It was a two-fer to watch him as they broke the news to Eva and also to ask him where he had been on Thursday. That's the very first question the cops had for everyone involved. Eva, Gideon, Stanton, Monica. Who's got good alibis (maybe any alibi at all) for Thursday. 

 

Now, to Eva's knowledge, (and thus our own as the readers) her Dad bought her simple explanation that Nathan was a bully. There's no way in h*** he did. He's just digging elsewhere, because it's clear Eva won't talk. We'll know though, what Victor does end up finding out, I hope, when in Entwined Victor comes back to New York.

 

  • I'll bet as soon as Eva shut herself in her room, Victor went after Gideon. Who probably left immediately without answering any questions (who, Gideon, refuse to answer questions? Oh yeah.) But Victor didn't let that rest -- soon after, he went online to read up on Gideon. 
  • I'm certain that Victor also tried questioning Cary after Eva locked herself in her room and Gideon took off. But it's obvious Cary didn't spill the beans either. Victor would have been in a rage if Cary had. He'd pound on Eva's bedroom door, not casually talk to her the next morning and have fun with her the rest of the day.
  • As luck would have it for Victor, the next morning he ran into Eva's mother for the first time in a very long time. A sudden opening. So how much you wanna bet that soon after, he picked up the phone to call Monica and ask "what's the deal between our daughter and your former stepson." Yeah, like he was going to get a straight answer out of her either.
  • Having failed to get any info out of Eva, her BFF/roommate, her mother, and her supposed boyfriend, Victor probably would have tried hitting up Detective Graves cop-to-cop. Initially, Graves would have kept her mouth shut. She's got an active homicide case going on trying to figure out whether people close to Eva were involved.

 

But .... now that Graves thinks she's got it figured out and is using Eva as bait to trap the killer, how much you wanna bet she's going to bring Victor into the picture. To hopefully get him (as a cop) convince Eva to "do the right thing" by cooperating with the police against Gideon. This actually is one of several different ways the trap could be sprung.

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Re-reading the stuff above that I mapped out about Victor, it struck me that Eva might be able to get away with lying to her Dad if Detective Graves tells him her Gideon-did-it theory.

 

Victor might buy Eva's lies because on his own, weeks earlier, Victor used the Internet himself to investigate Gideon the very night the cops showed up at Eva's. Soon after the cops left and Eva shut herself in her room, Victor went online. All it took was a simple search to find out on Thursday night, Gideon was out partying with his former fiancee' (Remember, in addition to the Thursday party photo with the bland caption, there were sensational photos from Monday night of candid shots of Gideon Cross out to dinner with "former fiancee!!!!" Eva herself saw several of those online Tuesday morning.)

 

So when Victor showed the party picture to Eva the next morning, Victor already knew. His casual "that's not his sister, is it?" was simply his indirect way asking Eva if she knew her supposed serious boyfriend was seeing Corrine.

 

The only reason Victor chose the Thursday party photo, not the Monday night out-to-dinner pictures, to spring on Eva was that party photo proved Gideon had a (supposed) solid alibi for at least three hours on Thursday night. The cops wanted to know where Gideon was Thursday. Plus it was kinder to show Eva a relatively bland story and caption instead of some screaming tabloid thing. What if Eva didn't even know yet Corrine existed? (A couple of weeks ago, that would have been exactly the case, though Victor had know way of knowing.)

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I can't wait to find out how juicy the weeks of Gideon/Corrine tabloid gossip has been. Eva quit reading anything about Gideon, because it hurt too much. It's out there, though. We the readers just don't know the gory details of the tabloid frenzy.

 

But now in Entwined, Eva is going to actively be involved in the act to fool the cops. She's now most definitely on a need-to-know basis about everything concerning Gideon's cover that had been going on from the week Nathan died right on up to the present.

 

She already figured out on her own, shortly before the cops approached her, Gideon wasn't sleeping with Corrine. Then thanks to the cops she found out from the cops why Gideon "left" her (Eva).

 

Finally having absolute proof Gideon loves her deeply and has been sexually faithful to her throughout their relationship, it's going to be easier for Eva to stomach the Gideon/Corrine stuff. It's still gonna bug Eva, but not make her insanely jealous any more.

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When Eva essentially asked her Dad whether he liked Gideon, the morning after her Dad had met Gideon at dinner, Victor's response was a bland "reserving judgment." I think he was just being kind to Eva, when in fact, Victor had already thrown Gideon onto the reject pile of Eva's really bad choices in men. And Victor was about to show Eva on the computer something that was going to hurt.

Gideon was right up there with Eva's then-boyfriend four-plus years ago that Victor caught getting a b*** job from some other woman (Victor pulled the guy over.) Like that guy long ago, Eva's latest was a cheater. Gideon was seeing another woman, an Internet search Victor showed. There were even pictures to prove it along with headlines screaming "former fiancée."

When Eva asked her Dad for his opinion of Gideon, Victor was holding Eva's computer tablet. On it was the photo he was about to show Eva in order to gauge whether she knew about the other woman. It was an online photo of Gideon and Corrine smiling and laughing, Gideon's arm around Corrine's waist, at a party on Thursday night.

Friday night at Eva's, when the detectives showed up, Gideon hadn't wanted to say in front of Eva (and her Dad) where he'd been Thursday. Dad later figured out online exactly where Gideon was during the evening -- and Dad figured out (correctly) Gideon had something to hide when he offered to talk to the cops while walking them downstairs.

Eva's reaction to the picture -- to tell Dad she needed to make a phone call, and then going to shut herself in her room to do it -- told Victor all he needed to know. If Eva hadn't known about Corrine being in the picture (bad pun intended) before then, she certainly knew now, thanks to Dad's gentle way of letting the cat out of the bag.

I really like Victor as a Dad. He doesn't berate Eva. Eva is a grown woman. But apparently Eva still hadn't fully outgrown the wild side -- anger and lousy boyfriends -- that so alarmed Victor years ago, he sent Eva to counseling. She's no longer the angry person she had been, so she's made progress. But in the man department, well, that's another story.

We the readers know, from a hint dropped in the same sentence about Mr. B*** Job, that there also had been a rock singer Dad didn't approve of. This was our first hint of Brett's existence.

So when Victor reappears in Entwined, I can't see him being at all thrilled about Gideon. Or about Brett either.

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