Entwined With You Snippets

[LN Cronan]

So my current stance on Magdalene is I feel a bit sorry for how pathetic she is. And I believe she's on Eva's side, but only because "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Corrine always was (in Magdalene's eyes) her true rival for Gideon. Eva became a serious rival to Corrine. So it made sense for Magdalene to side with Eva.

 

But ..... I still don't completely trust the wench. I still think think Magdalene is capable of some vindictiveness against Eva, now that Eva has (so Magdalene thinks) lost Gideon too.

[GiGi]

 

Aside from my firm conviction Gideon saved Eva's life by personally sinking a knife into the black heart of that sicko Nathan .....

 

...... I do evolve my stances on certain characters and my view of certain situations. Because of other posters here. What people write makes me think. And rethink. And go back into the details again, to tease out something new.

 

And I do enjoy playing devil's advocate too in order to spice things up to motivate other posters. I can look at something both ways: a "red flag" (a foreshadowing of a plot development) and a "red herring" (something the writer puts in a story to deliberately mislead the reader into thinking one thing, so that "bam" the writer can twist the plot.)

 

Hi LNCronan,

No wait, I thought that was my role....taking up the causes for the underdog...you know Camp Monica/Stanton/Clancy, etc. (wink, wink, just kidding!). :)

[LN Cronan]

Hi LNCronan,

As far as the hair colour thing is concerned, it is nothing but a "red herring". I seriously don't think that a woman's hair colour has anything to do with Gideon's preference of women. I just think that everyone was shocked when they saw Gideon with Eva because she was a direct departure from Corinne, who probably looked a little like his mother (at least in part by her hair colour).

 

The red hair is a red herring. Just like the red hair of the main receptionist on Gideon's floor is a red herring.

 

But a serious question I have for Sylvia, a spoiler question, is this: Gideon dated only brunettes, but did he also f*** only brunettes? (That Gideon made a one-time exception with redhead Anne for revenge.)

 

Is Eva really is something so special Gideon broke every last one of his rules? Including a rule that he only found brunettes attractive?

 

Think about this: Before Eva, Gideon had sex (and by sex, I mean full intercourse with Gideon holding the woman down) at one place and one place only - the hotel. Yet he nearly f****** Eva in his office when first chasing her. He had her on the couch, her skirt pulled up, then Scott interrupted Gideon over the intercom. Remember how incredulous Gideon was finding himself in that position in the middle of the day in his own office?!! And he told Eva in the limo while she was seducing him into having intercourse, that he was breaking every rule?

[AMC]

LN Cronan--

Would a "red herring" be thinking that Gideon killed Nathan only to find out that someone else killed him?

[LN Cronan]

*whew*  These posts are awesome!

 

I don't trust Cary..

I believe that Cary loves Eva and wants her to be happy.

But I believe that Cary is a "drama queen" and he gets off with the love triangle of Eva-Gideon-Brett..so Cary will subtlely do things to push the triangle drama.

 

AMC is in Camp Cary Is a Problem for Gideon! Yes!

 

This should be really interesting in Entwined. Because for all of his faults, Cary's a nice but screwed up guy. And he does have Eva's best interests at heart.

[LN Cronan]

LN Cronan--

Would a "red herring" be thinking that Gideon killed Nathan only to find out that someone else killed him?

AMC, that would be the ULTIMATE red herring. Sylvia leading us to believe Gideon did it, when in fact someone else plunged the knife into Nathan. Stanton? Monica? Angus? The list goes on .....

..... but I don't see that particular red herring. I think what makes the unfolding story so poignant is that Gideon loves Eva so much and wants to protect her so much that he personally saved her life, though it meant taking the law into his own hands, so that once and for all she's safe from Nathan. Even at the risk of losing everything. Including Eva herself. Even if he never went to prison, Gideon would serve a life sentence of pain if Eva left him forever because she believed the terrible things she did.

I think all the red flags pointing to Gideon as the killer are just that -- red flags leading up to Gideon telling Eva himself: I killed Nathan. I stabbed him in cold blood. I did it to save you.

[LN Cronan]

OK, time to shut down my computer for the night. I had a great time this evening in our online book club meeting.

 

...... off to dream sweet dreams of Gideon and Eva holding one another and crying and starting to make sweet, slow, make-up sex after a terrible time spent apart.

[GiGi]

 

LN Cronan--

Would a "red herring" be thinking that Gideon killed Nathan only to find out that someone else killed him?

 

Hi AMC,

Welcome to my camp sister! I think it is a very real possibility. Just think about it for a second, that would be a brilliant piece of writing on Sylvia's part! She would have so many readers believing that Gideon killed this person when all along it was someone else who did the dirty dead! :)

[GiGi]

Hi LNCronan,

Something that you said previously said to me struck me as odd. Imminent danger means just that…immediate danger (the robber is coming after you, screaming that he is going to kill you and you turn around to shoot him in order to save your own life. If a person wanted to argue imminent danger with Gideon, what leg would they have to stand on? Gideon met in person on at least one occasion with Nathan and they didn’t take the opportunity to kill him than.

Gideon must have seen the footage from the Crossfire Building on the second occasion that Nathan was seen wandering outside (by Monica/Clancy etc.). Surely Gideon would have been checking or having his security team specifically checking for and keeping a look-out for Nathan on a daily basis.

It could even be possible that Monica contacted Gideon herself or had Stanton contact Gideon to let him know that she had spotted Nathan outside of the building on that specific day. So how could Gideon spin it to the cops that he …what…showed up at Nathan’s hotel room…a hotel that Gideon owned and then spontaneously killed Nathan? It doesn’t make sense.

Gideon was the one who had to feel imminent danger for his life and not just for Eva’s life. Eva wasn’t at the hotel room that night so Gideon couldn’t use the excuse that he was killing Nathan to save Eva’s life. That is a huge blow to the defense. What does everyone think?

[GiGi]

Hi LNCronan,

What difference would it make if Gideon slept only with brunettes? His mother has black hair not brown? Even if Gideon only slept with raven haired hotties the most that a reader could conclude is that Gideon has mommy issues (which the reader already knows).

The reader is left with the impression that Gideon has had his share of a variety of women; brunettes, red heads, dare I say sliver haired foxes as well? I am absolutely sure of one thing though; Gideon most likely ran across a “Miss Clairol†woman as well (you know the woman who’s carpet and drapes don’t match-wink, wink). At that point, the most the poor boy could hope for is a little body or armpit hair to really discern what colour her crowning glory was?

I read your posting about Gideon’s examination (wink, wink) of Eva in his office. Maybe Gideon was checking to see if the runway was cleared for take-off and landing? If this man has a serious hang-up or possible fetish, maybe taking a quick peek would seal the deal for him? Maybe we the readers have read too much into the situation. Could it be that Gideon is just a freak with specific fetishes and nothing more? :)

[GiGi]

 

Hey, GiGi!

 

I think Gideon wanted to chuck Corrine under the bus for Crossfire nooner trick. He went way out of his way just one night earlier to do everything he could to try to make sure Corrine does not upset Eva? What's she do the next day? Freaks Eva out. At that point in time, Gideon was still terrified Eva was going to run away for good. In fact, she'd pulled one of her runners the night before. Over Corrine.

 

Even if Gideon toned down whatever he said to Corrine after the nooner trick incident, I can see him being enraged that Corrine pose a threat to destroying the one thing that meant everything to him: the relationship with Eva.

 

As far as we know, Gideon had no more contact with Corrine since the night Corrine crashed the fundraiser. Yes, yes, I know know only what Eva knows, because the story is all Eva's point of view. But Gideon didn't go anywhere near Corrine socially between that time and the day he started using Corrine for his cover plan to kill Nathan. Because Gideon spent every free moment he could with Eva.

 

Hi LNCronan,

I was just thinking about what you said; if Gideon is that insecure about Eva taking off again than his and Eva’s relationship is more screwed up than ever! That type of insecurity in Gideon would paint him in a different light for me. He is supposed to be this strong dominant man who is in control and yet everything seems to be unraveling in front of his eyes.

Surely Gideon can’t blame Corinne for the fact that he has been lying (by omission) to Eva, he has remained closed off from Eva and he has instigated the problems in his relationship with Eva. That would also include his introduction of Corinne back into his social picture, which may be a huge mistake. This is the “gamble†that may cost Gideon everything!

I can see Gideon being upset with Corinne but I wonder whether Gideon is more upset with himself in letting this situation get to where it has? Maybe Gideon is kicking himself because he didn’t anticipate all of the potential fallout or how all of the players would react. On some level that must irk Gideon-the ultimate control freak. What do you think? What does everyone think?

[AMC]

But the Detective said to Eva that the evidence that they collected from Nathan's hotel room showed that Nathan was stalking her.

From this evidence, the detective said that she felt Gideon perceived Eva to be in mortal danger.

 

I believe that Gideon and his security team had Nathan followed, knew his whereabouts and had cased his hotel room...

[GiGi]

 

Throwing out another thing we can have found bouncing around theories: What About Cary? As in What Are Gideon and Eva Going to Do About Seeing One Another Secretly? Eva's Got A Roommate.

 

This could be a real problem. Cary's always had mixed feelings about Gideon as Eva's boyfriend -- and Cary is 100% right to feel this way. Cary knows how violent Gideon's nightmares get. Cary knows that the stress started triggering Eva's nightmares about Nathan too. And Cary has been witness to sooooo many Eva crying jags over Gideon.

 

Sure, Cary has often pushed Eva to talk to Gideon about issues. But Cary also has been subtly making trouble in the Brett department. Never told Eva, before she went to the concert, that Six-Ninths was the new name of Brett's band. Let her get blindsided by that -- she's at a concert with Gideon and her ex lover is up there on the stage. Cary was seriously amused the day Eva took Brett to lunch to rattle Gideon's cage. And let's not forget it was Cary who told Eva he saw an interview online where Brett said he wants another shot at her.

 

Cary can't be trusted with a secret this high risk. Cary's a flake with his own set of serious issues. And Gideon has witnessed some outrageous Cary behavior too (like he'd been in the middle of having group sex when Eva came home early and Gideon came running in behind her.)

 

So, how are Gideon and Eva going to keep their secret love secret from even her best friend and roommate? And what happens if, during the incredible make-up sex Gideon and Eva have at her place when Entwined opens, Cary arrives home?

 

Hi LNCronan,

I think that Carey could potentially be a problem, but I am sure that problem could be solved if Gideon arranges a nice line of credit for the boy (I am almost kidding but even I am beginning to wonder)! I think that Carey has made it clear how he feels about Gideon and Eva dating. Carey has genuine cause for concern for Eva’s mental and physical safety. Thus far Gideon has demonstrated on two occasions that his violent dreams can really harm Eva.

What I find interesting is how Gideon’s secrets are making him sick. There is an old saying “we are only as sick as our secretsâ€. It seems that in this case, the old adage seems to be true.

I think what remains to be seen is what Carey’s agenda is exactly? Is Carey the friend who just wants to protect Eva or does he see himself as the potential new lover? Making that kind of play would be a huge risk for Carey. He could lose everything if Eva doesn’t return his affections.

I know that this is wild speculation but it is something worth chewing on. No one seems to know Carey better than Eva does. No one has ever supported Carey the way Eva does and no one has ever expected anything from Carey other than him being good to himself other than Eva. She is the only one who never wanted anything from Carey and I am absolutely sure that point isn’t lost on Carey.

It is plausible that Gideon and Eva find a little love nest of their own where no one can spot them. Somewhere that is public enough that either one can get lost in a crowd or somewhere where either of them can have a valid reason for being spotted there (not together but separately). Gideon and Eva run in the same social circles so much of their meetings could be explained away by attending charities and social functions.

I think that it would be highly suspicious if either Gideon or Eva stopped living their lives (separately of course) out in public. If they changed their social routines or daily habits, a detective could find that highly suspicious. What does everyone think?

[GiGi]

 

Just throwing out this far reaching bit of speculation ---- but what if Gideon is everything Dr. Lucas said he is - at least at the moment. What if it's Eva's love and the love he feels for her that's helping him to change. After all Gideon has never dealt with his abuse. He may have certain ways that even he is not aware of due to being abused and his mother pretty much turning her back on him. Maybe he's aware of some of his "dark ways" and is afraid Eva would leave him if she knew just how messed up he is. He's always questioning just how much Eva can know about him before she takes off running.

 

Maybe he's been an antihero until he met Eva and is struggling to let go of what has pretty muched worked for him until he met Eva. He hasn't been all that great to her - they've had moments and it's obvious that he cares deeply for her. But, she has to practically be out the door before he comes clean with her everytime. I think there's a lot of dark stuff to be discovered about Gideon before he and Eva have their happy ending in the light.

 

Hi Mrsmajessick,

I just wanted to start this posting off by letting you and everyone in the forum know that this posting is going to be broken up into a few separate postings. I had a lot of thoughts about what you said and I want to make sure that everyone’s eyes don’t shrivel up in their eye sockets while they are reading this.

I was thinking about your theory and it is plausible. My thought is that it is possible for a person to grow and change if the motivation is strong enough. I guess the argument could be made that Gideon’s love for Eva is what is driving him to hold on to that relationship and thereby grow and change (I don’t think that growing and changing is his ultimate goal). Maybe all of Gideon’s experiences of betrayal have caused him to build up a fortress around him (a fortress so strong that no one will ever be able to penetrate it and hurt him). If we sit back and actually look at both the books in their entirety, this is the first semi-healthy relationship Gideon has ever had with anyone. Yes, yes, I know, this relationship is screwed up but thinks of this:

• This is the first relationship that Gideon has chased after a woman (he chased and he caught).

• This the first time that Gideon tried a different modus operandi, he allowed Eva to take the lead when he and Eva had sexual intercourse in the limousine that first time. Up until then Gideon was chasing, catching and dictating what sexual acts he was going to perform on Eva. I think that when Eva said that “she wanted this-meaning sexual intercourse with Gideonâ€, he desired her so much that he was willing to try something new and relinquish control to her.

• Although Gideon had his hands on Eva’s hips during that experience, he didn’t physically restrain her arms, which seems to have also been a first for him.

• This is the first time that he has felt a strong physical attraction to a woman-Eva.

• Eva is the only woman that Gideon has brought over to his penthouse (yet again another first).

• Eva is the only woman that Gideon has ever slept beside. That in itself is a profound act, because Gideon was opening himself up to risk, which is something that he hates. Eva might see one of his nightmares, which she did. I am also sure that his household staff must have heard one of his nightmares and maybe said something along the lines of “Are you ok Sir? It sounded like you were having a terrible nightmare last night? “. Employer or not, Gideon is a human being and if his staff heard that they would have been concerned for him.

[GiGi]

 

Just throwing out this far reaching bit of speculation ---- but what if Gideon is everything Dr. Lucas said he is - at least at the moment. What if it's Eva's love and the love he feels for her that's helping him to change. After all Gideon has never dealt with his abuse. He may have certain ways that even he is not aware of due to being abused and his mother pretty much turning her back on him. Maybe he's aware of some of his "dark ways" and is afraid Eva would leave him if she knew just how messed up he is. He's always questioning just how much Eva can know about him before she takes off running.

 

Maybe he's been an antihero until he met Eva and is struggling to let go of what has pretty muched worked for him until he met Eva. He hasn't been all that great to her - they've had moments and it's obvious that he cares deeply for her. But, she has to practically be out the door before he comes clean with her everytime. I think there's a lot of dark stuff to be discovered about Gideon before he and Eva have their happy ending in the light.

 

Hi Mrsmajessick,

This is Part Two:

I think that all of those instances are indicators of a man truly in love. Love is supposed to make you want to be better as a person and to be a better person for the one you love. In some strange way I think that Gideon is making those changes and is trying not only for Eva but for him as well.

Gideon has been betrayed in the most profound and devastating of ways:

1. He was betrayed by his mother when she didn’t believe him about the abuse.

2. Gideon could no longer physically feel safe in his home because his mother kept inviting his abuser to the house so maybe Gideon didn’t know when these “counseling sessions†were scheduled.

3. I suspect that if Gideon knew that he had a scheduled “counseling session at his home, he may have been trying to pick fights with students at school or trying to get detentions at school in order to avoid going home and having to physically confront his abuser.

4. Christopher Vidal Sr. may have been responsible for covering-up Gideon’s abuse. His mother may or may not have known (but that doesn’t matter because Gideon could no longer feel safe going to his mother-she didn’t believe him).

5. Gideon was being blamed for his behaviour and perhaps inadvertently for his mother’s difficult pregnancy. He seemed to be the sole person responsible for all the turmoil and drama in the house.

6. Gideon was being blamed for everyone else’s problems. That’s a huge psychological burden for a child to bear and what is worse, he probably believed that he was responsible for everything.

7. Gideon’s body was being violated by the abuser, so he wasn’t able to even feel safe in his own skin.

8. Gideon may have felt that he no longer had any family or anyone he could turn to-again that would be utterly devastating for a child who needs someone to protect him from all the monsters in the world.

[GiGi]

 

Just throwing out this far reaching bit of speculation ---- but what if Gideon is everything Dr. Lucas said he is - at least at the moment. What if it's Eva's love and the love he feels for her that's helping him to change. After all Gideon has never dealt with his abuse. He may have certain ways that even he is not aware of due to being abused and his mother pretty much turning her back on him. Maybe he's aware of some of his "dark ways" and is afraid Eva would leave him if she knew just how messed up he is. He's always questioning just how much Eva can know about him before she takes off running.

 

Maybe he's been an antihero until he met Eva and is struggling to let go of what has pretty muched worked for him until he met Eva. He hasn't been all that great to her - they've had moments and it's obvious that he cares deeply for her. But, she has to practically be out the door before he comes clean with her everytime. I think there's a lot of dark stuff to be discovered about Gideon before he and Eva have their happy ending in the light.

 

Part Three:

Mrsmajessick, you are absolutely right about Gideon having created and using coping mechanisms before he met Eva. I also agree that once Eva walked in the door those coping mechanisms flew right out the window. We can see evidence of that because Eva won’t accept anything less than candor and honesty. Gideon quickly learns that if he wants to keep Eva, he needs to open his mouth and his heart to her.

I think that is the greatest lesson Gideon is in the process of learning. I think that this is the very first time that he is making his heart available and that is what is sending him into a tailspin. I am not sure that Gideon has learned the skills of trust and honesty. I don’t know if he knows how to open his heart but he is learning.

You mentioned Dr. Lucas’s assessment of Gideon as being a Narcissistic sociopath who also has misogynistic tendencies (page 241 RIY) and I find that an interesting theory because it says more about Dr. Lucas then it does about Gideon. Dr. Lucas supposedly treated (or didn’t treat) Gideon as a patient at some point, which should make discussing Gideon strictly off limits. Yet our good Dr. Lucas is going to do humanity-and Eva, a favour, by trying to save her from Gideon.

[GiGi]

 

Just throwing out this far reaching bit of speculation ---- but what if Gideon is everything Dr. Lucas said he is - at least at the moment. What if it's Eva's love and the love he feels for her that's helping him to change. After all Gideon has never dealt with his abuse. He may have certain ways that even he is not aware of due to being abused and his mother pretty much turning her back on him. Maybe he's aware of some of his "dark ways" and is afraid Eva would leave him if she knew just how messed up he is. He's always questioning just how much Eva can know about him before she takes off running.

 

Maybe he's been an antihero until he met Eva and is struggling to let go of what has pretty muched worked for him until he met Eva. He hasn't been all that great to her - they've had moments and it's obvious that he cares deeply for her. But, she has to practically be out the door before he comes clean with her everytime. I think there's a lot of dark stuff to be discovered about Gideon before he and Eva have their happy ending in the light.

 

Part Four:

The good Dr. Lucas can’t seem to look at the role he played in; either having covered-up Gideon’s abuse or being responsible for having abused Gideon. Our good doctor also seems very comfortable in shifting the blame for the demise of his marriage. Every woman knows that if her relationship is strong and is valued by her and her partner, then there never would have been any affair in the first place. Somewhere along the lines, Dr. Lucas dropped the ball with his wife, neglected her and left her vulnerable and open to an affair.

I think that the medical diagnosis Dr. Lucas bestowed on Gideon was completely self-serving:

1. A narcissist can’t think about anyone else’s experiences above their own. Each and every single step of the way, Gideon has been concerned about Eva’s comfort during sex. A narcissistic personality wouldn’t be worrying about anyone else’s comfort but his/her own.

2. Gideon agreed to Eva’s request. A narcissist would enter into an agreement that would see them on the short end of the stick sexually.

3. During the Las Vegas trip, Eva sent either Clancy or another bodyguard to guard Gideon and made sure that Gideon couldn’t be within three feet of another human being. To everyone’s amusement, Gideon honored that request and was turned on by it.

4. If Gideon did kill Eva, then he would have confessed his sins to her at some point, because he wouldn’t care about any perceived burden it may cause her to know this information.

5. If Gideon was a sociopath, then his actions and concern for fitting in with society would be justified. The only problem would be that sociopaths tend to be disorganized and their thoughts frenetic. This medical diagnosis is the complete antithesis of Gideon’s personality.

Finally I believe that the threat of losing Eva is what is driving Gideon to be more open and is what is causing his growth and changes as to how he approaches life situations. Ultimately I think that Gideon is just a scared little boy, in a man’s body, who is afraid that is someone knows all of his big, bad secrets, and then he will get hurt again. Each and every single person of importance, in his life, has judged him, ridiculed him and demeaned him in some way. I think that the situation with Eva may either make or break him as a human being. This is the very first time that he has ever opened himself up to another person and because he doesn’t have control it is terrifying to him. Wow! Was that ever a long post! So many thoughts and they seem to all relate to one another! What do you think? :)

[GiGi]

 

But the Detective said to Eva that the evidence that they collected from Nathan's hotel room showed that Nathan was stalking her.

From this evidence, the detective said that she felt Gideon perceived Eva to be in mortal danger.

 

I believe that Gideon and his security team had Nathan followed, knew his whereabouts and had cased his hotel room...

 

Hi AMC,

I guess that is exactly what I mean. What is the difference between perception and actual physical mortal danger? As far as the law is concerned, there is a huge difference between the two of them. I am sure that the detective wouldn’t disclose all of the evidence they found at the crime scene also. It wouldn’t make sense to me as a reader if she did.

What would make sense to me is if the Detective tried to mislead Eva, you know mix in a little bit of the truth with her own personal theories to try and gain more information for her investigation. As far as I can tell, thus far, the detective is just speculating. She doesn’t actually have any physical evidence to prove that Gideon did anything let alone was at the crime scene. This is a huge snag for her as a professional trained to investigate crimes and crack alibis.

I agree with your theory that Gideon was having Nathan followed. I just need a little more evidence that Gideon did indeed kill Nathan (i.e. Sylvia’s written word ) and the weapon used to kill Nathan would help me to believe. :)

[Kirsten]

Oh Jeez!! I want to cry! ...so sweet....

 Seriously...this wait is torture! I would've never started the series if I knew it was going to be delayed so long!

It is a long wait, but I appreciate Sylvia posting snippets every couple of weeks.

 

Sylvia's birthday is Monday March 11th, so make sure you all show her some love on FB or twitter.

[mrsmajessick]

Dr. Lucas' opinion of Gideon is seriously colored by what Gideon did to him in order to seek revenge for whatever it had been to make Gideon hate Lucas. Seduce Lucas' wife of 20 years. Manipulate her into falling in love with him. Then break her heart and send her back to her husband. Not Gideon's finest moment. And afterward, he felt a sense of remorse he made Anne Lucas collateral damage.

 

Just because he did something to one woman that a narcissist would do, doesn't make him one -- make him a man who goes around deliberately hurting every woman he gets involved with. Any more than his killing one man in cold blood makes him a serial killer.

 

But what Gideon did do to Anne Lucas does show to me how deep the damage to Gideon is, and how little he has dealt with it yet. Underneath that man who can be stone-cold at times is an angry child, and underneath that angry child is an incredibly hurt little boy. (Crying for him now.) Also, what he did to Anne Lucas raises a huge red flag to me about just how deep his anger at Dr. Lucas is. What did that man do as a young pediatrician to so hurt Gideon and his connection to his own family that years later, Gideon sought to destroy Lucas' family (i.e. his marriage.) Sylvia has said Lucas is NOT the sexual abuser. But whatever Lucas was, it's gotta be dark.

 

Maybe in retaliation, Lucas has been going around trying to poison the mind of every one of Gideon's women he can get near socially. I'll bet Lucas' approaching Eva at that dinner isn't the first time Lucas has done that. he's probably tried it on other women Gideon has escorted socially to these big society charity events.

 

Dr. Lucas' opinion isn't colored by anything other than the truth of Gideon's own actions. We don't know if Gideon treated other women like he did Anne or not and feeling remorse means little after the fact when you're still treating the man who's wife you messed up like crap. Obviously screwing Dr. Lucas' wife wasn't enough for Gideon to let it go and reason he tried to exact revenge and it backfired.  Even Eva recognized that Gideon would do it again - no remorse in that. My red flag goes up when a person makes themselves the victim of their own wrong doings i.e. and I paraphrase here - "Dr. Lucas alienated me from my family" and "I couldn't get clean after I messed up Anne's head." Poor baby, imagine how dirty that woman must have felt. And..."I realized I couldn't sleep overnight with Corinne" yet he led (by not saying anything) her on for two years and I'm pretty sure he's leading her on now. And he couldn't even bring himself to break it off with her after his ah-hah moment - that's just plain old messed up. He may not be telling her he loves her now and they're going to be together, but he's allowing her to think something that can't be true - otherwise she wouldn't spend so much time with him. She is aware of his ways and probably thinks Gideon is just being his closed off self like in the past. That's his best weapon with these women - silence - and he knows it.   

 

And yes it's possible that Corinne could be making up all kinds of delusions in her head and not hearing Gideon, but a man who made himself into a zillonaire at the age of 28 doesn't see this and know that he's creating a bigger problem for himself and Eva. If Corinne is that delusional what's to keep her from being dangerous - fatal attraction anyone?

 

I still stand in the camp that Gideon's moral compass only started spinning in the right direction when he fell in love with Eva. Don't get me wrong, I love Gideon and very much want him and Eva to have a happy ending - they both deserve it. I'm just saying that I think there is a lot of dark stuff that Gideon's gotta own up to and work through before they can truly be happy.  

 

And killing one person may not make you a serial killer, but do we really want to start quantifying murderers by number of kills? That's like saying a person is less of a murderer because he used a knife instead of a gun. A killer is a killer. And anyone who does it once is capable of doing it again - it's only a matter of their choice.

[mrsmajessick]

Wow GiGi,

 

You have given me a lot to think about. I really want to think about some points you mentioned that I hadn't thought about before so let me get back to you later today with a response!

[LN Cronan]

   

Hi Mrsmajessick,

I just wanted to start this posting off by letting you and everyone in the forum know that this posting is going to be broken up into a few separate postings. I had a lot of thoughts about what you said and I want to make sure that everyone’s eyes don’t shrivel up in their eye sockets while they are reading this.

I was thinking about your theory and it is plausible. My thought is that it is possible for a person to grow and change if the motivation is strong enough. I guess the argument could be made that Gideon’s love for Eva is what is driving him to hold on to that relationship and thereby grow and change (I don’t think that growing and changing is his ultimate goal). Maybe all of Gideon’s experiences of betrayal have caused him to build up a fortress around him (a fortress so strong that no one will ever be able to penetrate it and hurt him). If we sit back and actually look at both the books in their entirety, this is the first semi-healthy relationship Gideon has ever had with anyone. Yes, yes, I know, this relationship is screwed up but thinks of this:

• This is the first relationship that Gideon has chased after a woman (he chased and he caught).

• This the first time that Gideon tried a different modus operandi, he allowed Eva to take the lead when he and Eva had sexual intercourse in the limousine that first time. Up until then Gideon was chasing, catching and dictating what sexual acts he was going to perform on Eva. I think that when Eva said that “she wanted this-meaning sexual intercourse with Gideonâ€, he desired her so much that he was willing to try something new and relinquish control to her.

• Although Gideon had his hands on Eva’s hips during that experience, he didn’t physically restrain her arms, which seems to have also been a first for him.

• This is the first time that he has felt a strong physical attraction to a woman-Eva.

• Eva is the only woman that Gideon has brought over to his penthouse (yet again another first).

• Eva is the only woman that Gideon has ever slept beside. That in itself is a profound act, because Gideon was opening himself up to risk, which is something that he hates. Eva might see one of his nightmares, which she did. I am also sure that his household staff must have heard one of his nightmares and maybe said something along the lines of “Are you ok Sir? It sounded like you were having a terrible nightmare last night? “. Employer or not, Gideon is a human being and if his staff heard that they would have been concerned for him.

 

SQUEEEEE!!!! Serious online book club meeting in the overnight! Lots of excellent discussion by all the ladies! Lots of reading pleasure this morning, and over the next couple of days, I'm aiming to reply to numerous individual posts. I'm starting with your four-part series, GigGi. 

 

Sometimes when a person is being abused, he/she retreats deeply into a protective shell. In extreme cases (like rape) a victim will so mentally detach that he/she disassociates entirely -- completely shuts down. It's a survival means at the time to get through something that could otherwise kill the psyche. Rape is an extreme form of abuse, but even other forms of abuse can send sufferers into shells. This is especially true of children, who have less capacity plus life experience to cope. So they protect themselves but shutting down a part of themselves and shutting out a part of the world.

 

At the time the abuse occurs, it is appropriate to have a defensive mental/emotional survival response kick in. But sometimes, that response of closing down keeps being used moving forward, used even when it is not the best way to cope, and used long past the point where a person's coping mechanisms should have evolved through life experience. Abuse survivors get "stuck" in a pattern.

 

One of the most important things adult therapy for child abuse victims can accomplish is to help them stop going into auto-pilot every time something, however big or small, feels threatening. And one of the greatest gifts life can give an adult abused as a child, to counter-balance people who damaged them, is to give them people whose love makes them grow. A romantic partner is only one example. Friendships so close the friends feel like family can fill a void emptied by actual family members. An older person can become a father/mother figure. A teacher/mentor can make a person believe in himself/herself.

 

Some additional thoughts that your bullet points raised for me: 

 

• In a way, Gideon's mother "left him" when she refused to believe he was abused. Makes sense now that Gideon would have a comfort level with women who would do anything to stay by his side. In this light, Corrine makes a lot of sense. So does Magdalene. 
• Not only did Gideon chase Eva down initially (i.e. seduce her) he kept chasing her. Her runners absolutely terrified him, Sylvia explained in a post somewhere. Remember, too, what Magdalene revealed to Eva during her phone call the morning after Eva ran away from Gideon and Corrine sitting together at the dinner. Magdalene had never, ever seen Gideon chase a woman before after a woman pulled some dramatic gesture. And some women have tried similar drama stunts over the years -- Magdalene ought to know, because she watched like a hawk. In fact, Corrine herself pulled the ultimate drama stunt by breaking the engagement. Gideon himself believed Corrine did it to force him to fight for her. But it backfired. He was relieved, because he couldn't go through with marrying her.
• Gideon repeatedly told Eva "go slow" during the limo sex. He didn't restrain her arms, but he did try to control in other ways, like the pace. Lots of interesting flags in that scene. Starts on page 89 of Bared to You for anyone looking for a good excuse to re-read a really hot scene. There's even more interesting flags in the library sex scene, starting on page 225. Including strong hints that's the room in his parents house where he was victimized as a child. Significant to me is how long that scene runs -- all the way to page 239. It's one of the longest scenes in the entire series. I believe that's true because pieces of it are going to make a lot of sense when Entwined delves into Gideon's dark places of his childhood. We could devote an entire thread to that scene alone.
• Eva is the only lover he's ever brought home, and the only lover he ever dared to fall asleep alongside. He never dared sleep alongside Corrine, because he didn't want her to ever find out about his nightmares. He ultimately let Corrine walk away from the engagement, because he knew he could never share a home with her. In only a couple of days, Eva got what Corrine spent years in vain trying to get: into Gideon's home and his bed.
• Gideon and Eva broke up two times. The first time, it was Gideon who did it, in immediate response to her finding out for the first time about the nightmares. Next day, he sent a "Dear Jane" letter via interoffice mail - an envelope containing her apartment key plus a notecard "Thank you, Eva, for everything. Yours, G." Gideon sent Eva away, because he felt could never share a bed with her. Because of the nightmares.
• The break-up lasted four days, ending with Gideon chasing Eva to get her back. It's all contained as part of the important library scene in Bared to You. He literally physically walked into his own h***l (his parents' home) to try to keep her. I find it symbolic -- in Entwined, Gideon will figuratively go through his past h*** in order to keep her in his life forever.

[LN Cronan]

Oops, I double-posted response to GiGi's series part one. So I'm erasing the second one here. But since I need to fill the blank somehow, and we've continued to discuss would it be the ULTIMATE red herring that someone OTHER than Gideon murdered Nathan ......

 

If Gideon could confess such an awful truth to Eva, committing the ultimate crime, and see that she'll stay anyway, he'll be able to discuss awful truths about the crimes done to him, and what he later did in response.

 

From a plot stand-point too, Gideon confessing to Eva he murdered Nathan, would be crucial for these reasons:

 

• The cops need a confession in order to nail Gideon. It's their last resort, because they haven't been able to get him forensically nor break his alibi.
• They could try to get this through setting a trap with Eva as the bait. (This is why I believe Detective Graves set Eva up, not did her a kindness.)
• If Gideon does confess to Eva, she faces a short-term legal peril of having immunity forced upon her in order to drag her in front of a grand jury to indict Gideon. The danger would be jail time for her for obstruction of justice.
• If Gideon does confess to Eva, and she does more than just keep her mouth shut -- if she actively helps him with the subsequent cover-up -- she becomes an accessory after the fact to first degree murder. She could face life in prison too.

 

Finally, if Graves has figured out (correctly) that Gideon loves Eva so much he would literally lay down his life for her, he'd do it figuratively to save her from being thrown under the legal bus. Threaten to send her to prison for obstruction, or worse, send her to prison for accessory after the fact to murder one, and Gideon would take a plea deal in return for them letting her off.

 

 

I think it's important, from a plot stand-point, that Eva's Dad is a cop and that Detective Graves met him. I wonder whether one of the things Graves is hoping might happen is that Eva's Dad will find out Gideon murdered Nathan and Eva knows this, that her Dad would try to get her "to do the right thing" by going to the cops and co-operating. And if she wouldn't on her own, Eva's Dad would throw Gideon under the bus himself in order to get Eva out of the legal mess she's in.

[AMC]

I'm not sure Gideon thought that he and Eva had broken up during those four days...

 

He replicated her bedroom in his apartment...

 

He made a collage of pictures of them together in his study...

 

He bought Eva a ring...

[LN Cronan]

I'm not sure Gideon thought that he and Eva had broken up during those four days...

 

He replicated her bedroom in his apartment...

 

He made a collage of pictures of them together in his study...

 

He bought Eva a ring...

 

Hi AMC!

 

I believe Gideon did all of the above laying the groundwork to be ready for when Eva came back on her own. He'd be all able to prove how much he cared. So she would come back to stay.

 

He was deluding himself into thinking she would come running back -- deluding himself because life spoiled him in that department. The women always chased him. Even though he broke up with her, he was counting on her trying to win him back. Women always try to win Gideon Cross (before Eva Trammell, that was).

 

From page 227, a section of the library scene, where he admits he hoped she's return on her own, but when she didn't, he ran after her:

 

     "I had hoped you would come back on your own," he murmured, "but I can't stay away anymore. I'll carry you out of here if I have to. Whatever it takes to get you back in the same room with me, talking this out."

 

Even more significant than creating a safe bedroom in his home and buying her a promise ring, Gideon entered therapy on his own. Eva had previously floated the idea of couples therapy, but he wanted to think about it. During the time they were apart, he sought out Dr. Petersen to enter individual therapy and to ask Dr. Petersen to take him and Eva as a couple if she would agree. Mind you, Eva never mentioned that specific doctor -- Gideon knew from having her followed to an appointment Eva had along with her mother.

 

Here's a man who as a child had his mother and step-father put him into treatment, treatment that led to the ultimate damage being done. I think it's safe to say that as an adult, Gideon wouldn't go within a mile of any therapist. But here he was so desperate, he'd gotten professional help for the nightmares (because that's what Dr. Petersen individually treated him for.) He'd already seen Dr. Petersen even before he chased Eva to get her back.