Have you ever considered Mr. Barker?

[GiGi]

Angus was in the room

 Hi Donnad,

How would Angus get into the room?  Why would Angus even want to be involved in a murder?  Would you knowingly and willingly want to be involved in a murder?  The scenario presented would be one of premeditated murder.  That's huge!  We would then be talking about a man planning and executing the murder of a man who wasn't a potential threat to that man.  Nathan wouldn't have been a threat to Angus, so why kill him?

 

I know that many would say that Angus may have killed Nathan for Eva, but I submit that theory would be inaccurate.  Angus was employed to guard Gideon and Gideon only!  Eva wasn't Gideon's wife.  Yes I am sure that he looked out for her when she and Gideon were together but asides from that Angus's sole responsibility would have been Gideon!

 

Angus wouldn't have been able to effectively guard both Eva and Gideon at the same time.  When Eva and Gideon were not together who would Angus have been responsible for guarding?  The theory doesn't make sense.  What does everyone think?

[GiGi]

I think we may be wasting our time on these theories about how it all went down because I just don't think we will ever know the details because as someone mentioned earlier I don't think Gideon will ever divulge the details of how it all went down.

Hi Sscrph,

I agree I don't think that we will ever really know exactly everything that happened that night.  I personally don't think that Gideon killed Nathan but even if he did, I really don't think that Gideon would burden Eva with all of that horrible information.  Eva would then have to walk around with that information for the rest of her life. 

 

But for the fact that Eva came into Gideon's life, Gideon would never have had to commit murder.  That kind of information would induce a huge amount of guilt!  I don't know that Eva would be able to live with that.  I get that this is an erotic novel, but this type of scenario would rival a murder mystery.  What does everyone think?

[GiGi]

Eva doesn't need to know every step A to Z, but she absolutely is now on a need-to-know basis of the key details. So Eva (and thus we readers) are going to get the highlights of how Gideon pulled off the murder plot. Bottom line: Eva needs confirmation of the stuff the detectives have figured out on their own (i.e. the stuff Detective Graves has gotten right) plus a heads up on the stuff the detectives either have gotten wrong or have failed to figure out.

 

Some of the stuff Detective Graves told her undoubtedly is stuff the cops got right, but some of it probably is wrong too. More importantly, there's stuff Graves would have held back on telling Eva (lest it get back to Gideon's defense team) and there's stuff Graves probably doesn't know about -- but -- might find out as the cops keep digging.

 

Now that Eva will be up to her eyeballs in helping to cover up the murder after the fact, she cannot afford to be blindsided by anything. Gideon had kept her completely in the dark for her own legal protection these past three weeks. Now he needs to go to the other end of the scale, tell her everything that's vital she be aware of if she's going to help him make the cops go away.

Or maybe Gideon was keeping Eva in the dark about what was going on because he was planning on killing Nathan but someone beat him to the punch, therefore there wasn't any real information to impart to Eva.   I am not sure that Eva would be up to her eyeballs trying to cover up a PREMEDITATED MURDER!!  Thus far, the only harm that Eva has ever done is to herself and no one else-NEVER anyone else!   

[Donnad]

I don't think Angus did it.   He did know about it.   I've said before that Eva's not going to get full details.  She does know.   The last page of Reflected she knew from his face and him breathing a sigh of relieve.

[GiGi]

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to add a few points of my own:

1. Even if someone used a “master keyâ€, when that key was inserted into the lock, it would have made a NOISE (a chirp, a click, something).
2. Each and every single key whether it be a “master key†or employee key or guest key, would leave a documented computer trail.  This would mean that Gideon would have to go and wipe the servers manually himself or have someone do if for him which would mean that he would have to involve someone else in the commission of his crime.
3. These are all extremely important points to remember when considering a theory.

At the end of the day, one would still need to apply some common sense when assessing a theory’s validity.  What does everyone think?

[LN Cronan]

What's Eva supposed to do, if not help Gideon make the cops finally back down, now that she knows why Gideon did it (to save her life)? Now that she knows about Nathan, she's pretty much left with three options:

 

1. Help Gideon now, which unfortunately does make her an accessory after the fact if she actively helps with the cover-up.
2. Keep silent, which constitutes obstruction of justice.
3. "Do The Right Thing" (cough, cough) by telling the police Gideon confirmed the police's suspicions are true.

 

Er, I'll take what's behind Door Number One, please and thank you.

[LN Cronan]

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to add a few points of my own:

1. Even if someone used a “master keyâ€, when that key was inserted into the lock, it would have made a NOISE (a chirp, a click, something).
2. Each and every single key whether it be a “master key†or employee key or guest key, would leave a documented computer trail.  This would mean that Gideon would have to go and wipe the servers manually himself or have someone do if for him which would mean that he would have to involve someone else in the commission of his crime.
3. These are all extremely important points to remember when considering a theory.

At the end of the day, one would still need to apply some common sense when assessing a theory’s validity.  What does everyone think?

 

A "click" is a lot quieter that knocking on the door and saying, "Open up, Nathan."

 

I think Gideon, who is a genius in a number of ways (including being able to win big at blackjack by counting cards) is more than capable of getting into one of his own computer systems. No one gets as rich as he is by 28 years old without being a bona fide genius.

[GiGi]

Hi everyone,

I assert that Nathan was afraid of Gideon.  Again I use common sense as a guide.  If someone got into a fight with a man who was highly trained in mixed martial arts and other fighting specialties and wound up on the losing end of it, would that person not think twice about seeing that person alone, in a confined space, where there were no witnesses or anyone around to offer assistance or get help?

 

Nathan had already met with Gideon, in Gideon’s office (a private space that was enclosed, confined and had no one around that could have offered assistance or interfered if things went wrong).

1. IF Nathan was a Sociopath or Psychopath, EACH of these mental illnesses asserts that the person who has this illness would have a high level of SELF PRESERVATION!  It would coincide with the fact that the person would only have the capability to think of his or herself.
2. Thus Nathan would want to avoid any situation or person that could potentially harm him. 
3. Just because a person may be a sociopath or psychopath doesn’t mean that they would vacillate from one illness, to another, to another, to another.  Nathan has whatever illness that he has and that’s it!  The North American Psychiatric Association has set the guidelines and criteria for these illnesses (that is the reference that I use).

The only thing that would have kept Nathan in New York would have been his complete desperation!  This man had been financially and emotionally cut off by his father.  He was also disowned (after years of his father most likely cleaning up after his son’s legal messes).  So Nathan would have had NO choice BUT to stay in New York and try to collect the blackmail money.

 

BUT Nathan COULD TRY and CONTROL the way in which he collected said payoff money and that would have included NOT coming into direct contact with a man who could physically harm him.  What does everyone think?

[LN Cronan]

This reinforces my theory that Gideon let himself into the room. The first time, Nathan went to Gideon. The last time, Gideon went to Nathan.

 

Keep in mind too, Gideon did not beat Nathan to a pulp in his office. Based on the tiny bit of blood on one cuff, it's likely he hit Nathan only once, then reeled himself in -- not out of consideration for Nathan, but knowing the fastest way for Eva to find out about those rape pictures would be if Nathan were carried out of that very busy office tower (where Eva works) on a stretcher.

[GiGi]

What's Eva supposed to do, if not help Gideon make the cops finally back down, now that she knows why Gideon did it (to save her life)? Now that she knows about Nathan, she's pretty much left with three options:

 

1. Help Gideon now, which unfortunately does make her an accessory after the fact if she actively helps with the cover-up.
2. Keep silent, which constitutes obstruction of justice.
3. "Do The Right Thing" (cough, cough) by telling the police Gideon confirmed the police's suspicions are true.

 

Er, I'll take what's behind Door Number One, please and thank you.

Eva's father asked for a lawyer for her.  Therefore all discussions and communications without the presence of said lawyer are Null and Void.  That isn't obstruction.  Let's get real here. 

 

It is like Mrsmajessick said, and yes I am paraphrasing here...you can come up with freaking theories and suppositions up the wazoo but if you have no physical evidence (no fibers, no blood, no eye witnesses, no photos or videos of the crime being committed), then ultimately you have BUBKISS (yes, yes, my own word)!!

 

Have you ever stopped to consider that by avoiding Eva and stopping this relationship so suddenly, Gideon makes himself look even more guilty?  So Eva was raped and tortured by Nathan, what does that have to do with Nathan's murder?  The cops would have to link Eva to the murder or anyone else by laying out all the facts (stalking, tracking, trailing the victim,out the murder plan, etc.).  Again, the cops have nothing!

 

 At the end of the day, some common sense has to be applied.  If we are going to look at this like a real life situation, then we have to apply some common sense.  What does everyone think?

[GiGi]

A "click" is a lot quieter that knocking on the door and saying, "Open up, Nathan."

 

I think Gideon, who is a genius in a number of ways (including being able to win big at blackjack by counting cards) is more than capable of getting into one of his own computer systems. No one gets as rich as he is by 28 years old without being a bona fide genius.

 The point is that Nathan would have been alerted, so where's the element of surprise?  There is no way that Nathan wouldn't have screamed, yelled or shouted for help.  There is NO way that he would have just stood there or tried to attack Gideon on his own! 

 

He ALREADY tried that BEFORE!!  He got PUNCHED in the face for it!!  There is NO WAY he would go back for round two!!  Lots of blood or not, it wouldn't matter.  He got PUNCHED in the FACE!!!

[Donnad]

Do you think he was killed somewhere else and brought there.

[GiGi]

This reinforces my theory that Gideon let himself into the room. The first time, Nathan went to Gideon. The last time, Gideon went to Nathan.

 

Keep in mind too, Gideon did not beat Nathan to a pulp in his office. Based on the tiny bit of blood on one cuff, it's likely he hit Nathan only once, then reeled himself in -- not out of consideration for Nathan, but knowing the fastest way for Eva to find out about those rape pictures would be if Nathan were carried out of that very busy office tower (where Eva works) on a stretcher.

 What I said was that Nathan probably took several blows to his body before Gideon punched him in the face.  Look at the fight he had with Brett.  Brett took several blows to his body before he got any to his face.  What Brett did didn't even come close to what Nathan did. 

 

I look at the way in which Gideon's state was described by Sylvia after the fight!  There is NO WAY a guy would need to SHOWER and CHANGE after punching a guy ONCE!!  AS far as I know Gideon doesn't suffer from a fear of germs. 

[GiGi]

Do you think he was killed somewhere else and brought there.

 

Hi Donnad, 

I don't know if you are directing this question at me, but my thoughts are that Nathan was killed in his hotel room.  Any blood evidence would have been present at the scene (i.e. Nathan would have been found in a pool of his own blood).   Thus far we the readers haven't really been given any further information other than Nathan was found in his hotel room murdered. 

[LN Cronan]

GiGi, take a deep breath and smile, you're getting all worked up. We need to get you another Snapshot, soon.

 

But I do want to remind you that for twelve years, I covered cops and court as a journalist. In real life, people are tried on the basis of circumstantial evidence only -- and people get found guilty. Sometimes, even innocent people get wrongly convicted.

 

Also, cops are human and make the mistake of pursuing cases they ought not to, and prosecutors blinded by ambition or pressured by others (politicians, family members) to bring cases to trial do it.

 

This happens in real life. All the time. And at the end of the day, no one -- NO ONE -- can know for sure what a jury will do.

[sscrph]

 What I said was that Nathan probably took several blows to his body before Gideon punched him in the face.  Look at the fight he had with Brett.  Brett took several blows to his body before he got any to his face.  What Brett did didn't even come close to what Nathan did. 

 

I look at the way in which Gideon's state was described by Sylvia after the fight!  There is NO WAY a guy would need to SHOWER and CHANGE after punching a guy ONCE!!  AS far as I know Gideon doesn't suffer from a fear of germs. 

I think the showering had more to do with his disgust at being so close to a vile rapist child molester and he was just trying to get clean!

Like Eva had to shower after her nightmare about Nathan

[LN Cronan]

 What I said was that Nathan probably took several blows to his body before Gideon punched him in the face.  Look at the fight he had with Brett.  Brett took several blows to his body before he got any to his face.  What Brett did didn't even come close to what Nathan did. 

 

I look at the way in which Gideon's state was described by Sylvia after the fight!  There is NO WAY a guy would need to SHOWER and CHANGE after punching a guy ONCE!!  AS far as I know Gideon doesn't suffer from a fear of germs. 

 

Remember what Gideon told Eva about what how he felt disgusted and sexually ashamed of himself every time he f*** Anne Lucas. He said no matter how long he showered afterward, he could never feel clean enough.

 

It's not uncommon for people with sexual shame issues (and most rape victims have that as part of the twisted damage) to want to clean themselves when old buttons are triggered. I think seeing images of Eva raped seriously triggered the broken child inside Gideon, who felt "dirty" and literally wanted to feel clean.

 

Comparing Brett to Nathan is apples to oranges. Eva very obviously felt sexual attraction to Brett and was engaging in a form of sexual behavior (deep kissing) when Gideon caught the two of them in one another's arms. Brett tapped into an entirely different set of emotions than Nathan had. Brett was raging jealousy, insecurity and fear of losing Eva. Nathan was anger and disgust.

[LN Cronan]

I think the showering had more to do with his disgust at being so close to a vile rapist child molester and he was just trying to get clean!

Like Eva had to shower after her nightmare about Nathan

^^^ THIS

[Donnad]

Remember what Gideon told Eva about what how he felt disgusted and sexually ashamed of himself every time he f*** Anne Lucas. He said no matter how long he showered afterward, he could never feel clean enough.

 

It's not uncommon for people with sexual shame issues (and most rape victims have that as part of the twisted damage) to want to clean themselves when old buttons are triggered. I think seeing images of Eva raped seriously triggered the broken child inside Gideon, who felt "dirty" and literally wanted to feel clean.

 

Comparing Brett to Nathan is apples to oranges. Eva very obviously felt sexual attraction to Brett and was engaging in a form of sexual behavior (deep kissing) when Gideon caught the two of them in one another's arms. Brett tapped into an entirely different set of emotions than Nathan had. Brett was raging jealousy, insecurity and fear of losing Eva. Nath

an was anger and disgust.

 

Very true

[GiGi]

Hi LNCronan,

Let me be very clear so that there is no possibility of any kind of misinterpretation: You are completely entitled to your own thoughts, your own theories, your own opinions and your own revenge plots.  Cool!  I wouldn’t ever want to change that.

 

I am sure that each and every single one of us has thought of a way or two to seek retribution against a character that we feel has done wrong, but what I take issue with is the writing down or the open written communication of “Lynching a character†thing.  It is a step too far!

 

Although you and I and many of the readers here may be sane rational people, we still have to account for the fact that there may be a few people (who visit this web site) who are not mentally stable.  As such each and every one of us bears a modicum of responsibility in what we post.

 

Again you may not agree with my position and that is fine.  Let me clear, I will absolutely respond vigorously if those types of responses are posted.  

[GiGi]

I think the showering had more to do with his disgust at being so close to a vile rapist child molester and he was just trying to get clean!

Like Eva had to shower after her nightmare about Nathan

Eva actually experienced having Nathan in her body, Gideon did not.  Eva would have been filled with the scent of Nathan and his fluids so the need to want to clean oneself from that experience would completely make sense.

 

As far as Gideon is concerned, I still think that he worked up a sweat and was also probably disgusted by Nathan, but I don't think that was the primary reason Gideon took a shower.  Nathan wasn't Gideon's abuser.

[LN Cronan]

GiGi, take a deep breath and smile, you're getting all worked up. We need to get you another Snapshot, soon.

 

But I do want to remind you that for twelve years, I covered cops and court as a journalist. In real life, people are tried on the basis of circumstantial evidence only -- and people get found guilty. Sometimes, even innocent people get wrongly convicted.

 

Also, cops are human and make the mistake of pursuing cases they ought not to, and prosecutors blinded by ambition or pressured by others (politicians, family members) to bring cases to trial do it.

 

This happens in real life. All the time. And at the end of the day, no one -- NO ONE -- can know for sure what a jury will do.

 

One more thing to add, the police are already halfway there to establishing sufficient evidence to seek an indictment. They've established sufficient evidence Gideon had the opportunity to kill Nathan -- that is, get over to the hotel, do the deed, then sneak back to the party.

 

It took Detective Graves digging hard through three rounds of questioning witnesses, but she successfully uncovered the hour-long disruption to the party, where everyone (party guests and hotel guests) got sent outside because of the small fire. Graves broke Gideon's alibi.

 

Trying to lead Eva to believe Gideon's alibi is "rock solid" is akin to Corrine trying to lead Eva to believe Gideon speaks with her (Corrine) every day. Fact of the matter is, his alibi is shot.

[GiGi]

GiGi, take a deep breath and smile, you're getting all worked up. We need to get you another Snapshot, soon.

 

But I do want to remind you that for twelve years, I covered cops and court as a journalist. In real life, people are tried on the basis of circumstantial evidence only -- and people get found guilty. Sometimes, even innocent people get wrongly convicted.

 

Also, cops are human and make the mistake of pursuing cases they ought not to, and prosecutors blinded by ambition or pressured by others (politicians, family members) to bring cases to trial do it.

 

This happens in real life. All the time. And at the end of the day, no one -- NO ONE -- can know for sure what a jury will do.

  

Hi LNCronan,

Let me also remind you that I have been working in the healthcare industry for the past eighteen years and have also been a “witness for the prosecution†on a few occasions and that as such I too have a very specific personal and professional perspective on how some issues are dealt with medically and legally (yet you have managed to try and discount it at every single turn). 

 

I don’t discount your perspective as a journalist (in fact I very much value it), but I always defer to an expert of his or her professional field.  We have been lucky enough to have experts on the legal end of things in this forum (perhaps a prosecutor or defense attorney), so your experiences would be tempered against what that person’s own professional experience or way of prosecuting cases would play out. 

 

Thus far, the theories presented haven’t taken into account what these legal professionals have had to offer.  Yes, you saw what you saw, but that doesn’t mean that is the way that things will play out in this case or that is the way things play out in everyday life all across the country (if anything, I have seen the complete opposite, more guilty people have gone free than been convicted).   Perhaps you have been luckier in having seen people who were truly guilty, get convicted.  At least some people got justice.

[sscrph]

Hi Sscrph,

I agree I don't think that we will ever really know exactly everything that happened that night.  I personally don't think that Gideon killed Nathan but even if he did, I really don't think that Gideon would burden Eva with all of that horrible information.  Eva would then have to walk around with that information for the rest of her life. 

 

But for the fact that Eva came into Gideon's life, Gideon would never have had to commit murder.  That kind of information would induce a huge amount of guilt!  I don't know that Eva would be able to live with that.  I get that this is an erotic novel, but this type of scenario would rival a murder mystery.  What does everyone think?

Gigi this is why I don't want to believe Gideon killed Nathan because Eva would bear a huge amount of guilt, it's just the way she is and she's already been through enough and I don't want her to live her life like that she needs to be free finally...

[LN Cronan]

Hi LNCronan,

Let me also remind you that I have been working in the healthcare industry for the past eighteen years and have also been a “witness for the prosecution†on a few occasions and that as such I too have a very specific personal and professional perspective on how some issues are dealt with medically and legally (yet you have managed to try and discount it at every single turn). 

 

I don’t discount your perspective as a journalist (in fact I very much value it), but I always defer to an expert of his or her professional field.  We have been lucky enough to have experts on the legal end of things in this forum (perhaps a prosecutor or defense attorney), so your experiences would be tempered against what that person’s own professional experience or way of prosecuting cases would play out. 

 

Thus far, the theories presented haven’t taken into account what these legal professionals have had to offer.  Yes, you saw what you saw, but that doesn’t mean that is the way that things will play out in this case or that is the way things play out in everyday life all across the country (if anything, I have seen the complete opposite, more guilty people have gone free than been convicted).   Perhaps you have been luckier in having seen people who were truly guilty, get convicted.  At least some people got justice.

 

 

Hey, GiGi,

 

I'm saying this with a fond smile and all due respect as you're my favorite fellow poster, there's a huge differences between appearing as a prosecution witness a few times to specifically testify about something healthcare related and spending twelve years working on a daily basis inside the legal world as a professional covering the work of cops and prosecutors, defense lawyers, court clerks and even judges themselves.

 

Having been a patient in an emergency room several times over the years did not give me expertise in emergency medicine, and working with my doctors does not make a health care professional.

 

What made me a professional expert in how people are charged with crimes under the U.S. legal system started with a college education in journalism followed by more than ten years of on-the-job experience closely watching crime cases built from the bottom up by the police and resolved at the other end by the court system. I wasn't simply any kind of journalist, I was a crime beat journalist -- an expert within my own field.

 

I covered thousands of criminal investigations ranging from thefts to murders, covered hundreds of court cases from misdemeanors to death-penalty cases, and sat every single minute through dozens of jury trials. For every single murder case plus some other especially heinous crimes, I also sat through every minute of every pre-trial hearing where both sides fought like cats and dogs over what the jury would, and would not, hear about. And when the judge ruled, it was my job to explain to everyone else what it meant.

 

What's more, I was actually part of the system legal system itself, the public accountability part that kept everyone involved answerable, from the judges themselves on down. The press is one of the crucial pieces of the court system, most especially the criminal court system in the United States. 

 

I can't say how this fictional case will play out - that's in Sylvia's head. But I know exactly how the system works  in real life -- not how it's "supposed" to work theory -- how it actually does work in practice, including how things go wrong. Especially how things go wrong, because when they went wrong on my beat (and they did) I wrote about how the police made mistakes, lawyers for one side or the other blew it, even judges who sometimes screwed up.

 

Too, there are differences in the legal systems between the United States and Canada: different constitutions, different legal rights, different sets of precedent-setting case law, different sets of legal procedures.