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Gideon DID kill Nathan -- that's official from Sylvia in a live interview


LN Cronan

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I have a crazy theory, I am probably way off but I thought it would be fun to share anyway. What if Monica confesses to Nathan’s murder using temporary insanity as her plea? It would be totally believable that a mother would lose it and go after someone who hurt their baby girl, especially after Monica/Stanton saw those pictures of Eva being abused. Let’s just say that Monica and Stanton know that detective Graves talked to Eva at the gym and that they decided that this investigation would be too much for her to handle. I’m sure they probably suspect that Gideon took care of the problem, and it is no secret that they all underestimate Eva’s strength. Monica probably wouldn’t even get jail time, she may have to go to a mental institution temporarily. This might be Monica’s way of trying to make up for the past when she was less then observant. Again I know this is an off the wall theoryJ

 

Thoughts?

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I don't believe that any of us feel that murder is trivial or romantic. It is a serious and sad matter. The fact that Gideon committed murder is a very serious and sad matter, but as far as we know, Gideon felt or perceived that Eva was in mortal danger and he felt he had no other choice. Was it wrong, what he did? We will surly find out come June 4th.

I'm sure that Eva and Gideon will have to deal with all of the ramifications of this in the future books.

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Jls1216

Not such a crazy theory. The way this story is going, nothing would surprise me. What Nathan did when Eva was a child was abhorrent, but to come back years later with photographic evidence, is beyond words.

But I don't think Gideon would allow Monica to take the fall. It would crucify Eva. Either way Eva is grateful for what Gideon has done, but will feel guilty.

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Hi Julie54,

I could have bought that arguement if Gideon had snapped, went to Nathan and killed him immediately. What I am finding hard to swallow is the fact that he just sat there and formulated a plan. He systematically and methodically planned this entire thing out (or so the reader is left to believe that given what has been written thus far). Anyway you slice that loaf of bread, it is still premeditated murder and that just isn't romantic from my point of view.

I am going to wait until June 4th to read for myself and see what exactly happened. I hope it will shed some light on a very hot topic.

Yes, Gideon does plan everything out as much as possible. In Bared he told Eva in his office at the crossfire, he is very protective of His people. He also said it to her again in the beginning of Reflected before the Vegas trip and before the Rock concert.

And although death is not romantic. Death is very much a part of life, and as unfortunate as it is, someone did assist Nathan in his.

The death (murder) in this story helps to make it more of a reality and not only roses and chocolate and kisses.

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I do believe Gideon killed Nathan now ,but Sylvia also didn't say how or excatly what happened..So I still think we have to wait to see excatly how it happened..something tells me were in for a big surprise as to how it went down..Some of us are wondering why would Sylvia tell us now, well I believe they way it happened wasn't just like he opened the door and Gideon stabbed him, I think its going to be a real eye opener out of left field.. Either way I still will be team Gideon!!

Ditto...

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I have a crazy theory, I am probably way off but I thought it would be fun to share anyway. What if Monica confesses to Nathan’s murder using temporary insanity as her plea? It would be totally believable that a mother would lose it and go after someone who hurt their baby girl, especially after Monica/Stanton saw those pictures of Eva being abused. Let’s just say that Monica and Stanton know that detective Graves talked to Eva at the gym and that they decided that this investigation would be too much for her to handle. I’m sure they probably suspect that Gideon took care of the problem, and it is no secret that they all underestimate Eva’s strength. Monica probably wouldn’t even get jail time, she may have to go to a mental institution temporarily. This might be Monica’s way of trying to make up for the past when she was less then observant. Again I know this is an off the wall theoryJ

 

Thoughts?

 Hi Jls1216,

I think that your theory is plausible and it might have been a nice change to the storyline.  I guess we will all find out on June 4th. 

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Yes, Gideon does plan everything out as much as possible. In Bared he told Eva in his office at the crossfire, he is very protective of His people. He also said it to her again in the beginning of Reflected before the Vegas trip and before the Rock concert.

And although death is not romantic. Death is very much a part of life, and as unfortunate as it is, someone did assist Nathan in his.

The death (murder) in this story helps to make it more of a reality and not only roses and chocolate and kisses.

Hi Peachies,

Let's not mince words here.  We are not talking about someone who suffered a heart attack, or a stroke or died of some terminal illness (or performed an assisted suicide of sorts).  We are talking about a man who sat in his office and deliberately, coldly and methodically decided all on his own to end the life of another human being (yes, yes Nathan was despicable no doubt about it).  So let's be clear here and not trivialize this, if what Sylvia said is  true then Gideon is a murderer! Period! Point stop!

 

Interchanging murder with death is adding "chocolates, hearts and roses" to a very serious subject. 

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I don't believe that any of us feel that murder is trivial or romantic. It is a serious and sad matter. The fact that Gideon committed murder is a very serious and sad matter, but as far as we know, Gideon felt or perceived that Eva was in mortal danger and he felt he had no other choice. Was it wrong, what he did? We will surly find out come June 4th.

I'm sure that Eva and Gideon will have to deal with all of the ramifications of this in the future books.

Hi Ript,

Gideon decided to play judge, jury and executioner all in one fell swoop.  There have been posts that have automatically dismissed Gideon's actions as being just justified.  Who appointed Gideon God?  Why did Gideon get the ultimate say in who should be murdered? 

 

If we the readers have been given accurate correctly and have theorized correctly then what Gideon did was premeditated.  There isn't any way to excuse that.  Mortal danger means immediate; someone is coming at you with a knife or a gun or whatever and you have to defend yourself (kill or be killed).  Justified does not mean sitting back for over a week and planning the demise of another human being (even as despicable as he was) even if he was crazy or stalking Eva. 

 

Gideon's perceptions don't mean jack when his actions clearly implied that he planned the murder of another human being.  Gideon never tried to reach out for help via the police or the FBI or other sources (we will have to wait and see on June 4th if he tried to get help from outside agencies).  Gideon was also not the person in immediate danger, Eva was (for which our beloved Gideon stupidly never let Eva in the loop).  Eva would have had to be the one wielding the knife, not Gideon.  

 

Do we have any lawyers or DA's or law enforcement in this forum who could jump in to this discussion.  Surely Canada and the US cannot be that different as far as the interpretation of the law.  So if we want to call a spade a spade and say that Gideon is a murderer (and no not a justified ender of someone's life), then cool.  Let's rock and roll.  If not then let's not kid ourselves and try to justify actions that were clearly premeditated murder (if in fact he did kill Nathan and we surmised the situation accurately).

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Hi Peachies,

Let's not mince words here. We are not talking about someone who suffered a heart attack, or a stroke or died of some terminal illness (or performed an assisted suicide of sorts). We are talking about a man who sat in his office and deliberately, coldly and methodically decided all on his own to end the life of another human being (yes, yes Nathan was despicable no doubt about it). So let's be clear here and not trivialize this, if what Sylvia said is true then Gideon is a murderer! Period! Point stop!

Interchanging murder with death is adding "chocolates, hearts and roses" to a very serious subject.

All we know is Sylvia said Gideon did kill Nathan. We haven't been presented with the details if how it happened. It could have been planned out and it could have been defense.

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I have a crazy theory, I am probably way off but I thought it would be fun to share anyway. What if Monica confesses to Nathan’s murder using temporary insanity as her plea? It would be totally believable that a mother would lose it and go after someone who hurt their baby girl, especially after Monica/Stanton saw those pictures of Eva being abused. Let’s just say that Monica and Stanton know that detective Graves talked to Eva at the gym and that they decided that this investigation would be too much for her to handle. I’m sure they probably suspect that Gideon took care of the problem, and it is no secret that they all underestimate Eva’s strength. Monica probably wouldn’t even get jail time, she may have to go to a mental institution temporarily. This might be Monica’s way of trying to make up for the past when she was less then observant. Again I know this is an off the wall theoryJ

 

Thoughts?

I don't think Monica would ever do this, she is too selfish and self-absorbed and would never want anything to mar her social standing.
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Why did Sylvia even answer that question? It's driving me mad!

 

Hey Mrs. C.

 

We all were bound to find out anyway well before Entwined is released on June 4.

 

Sylvia is releasing Chapter One of Entwined early, on May 7. Obviously, very significant spoiler info will be in that chapter.

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Hi everyone,
If the information that Sylvia releaseed was accurate, then she did a great job of stirring up controversy.  Just think, the forums have been buzzing with activity and heated discussions ever since.  Otherwise it is a clever ruse or a "red herring" of sorts.
 
I know that the first chapter is supposed to come out on May 7th, I am not sure if that chapter will contain all of the information that some of us in the forum are so desperate for.  I guess we will have to wait and see.  By hook or by crook, we will all have to wait until June 4th to get all the answers we are looking for (although the amount of time that the next book is supposed to cover is only two weeks). 
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No, I'm trying to present facts as we know them, without coloring it with my opinion. Because it doesn't matter what *I* would do, only what Gideon does and thinks and feels.

 

Eva is unbearably precious to Gideon. She says he's lightning in the darkness, the most beautiful and dangerous part of a storm. For him, she's the candle in the window, the bright light that brings him out of the cold and into a place where he can let down his guard and find shelter. Due to the actions of his parents, Gideon has felt unloved and unloveable his whole life, until the day he followed a gorgeous blonde into the Crossfire and she saw right through him.

 

I'm sure Gideon can't imagine a life without Eva in it. That the thought of losing her and what she brings to his existence must be impossible for him to bear. I can feel his panic when she pulls away even a little bit, it's very close to terror. Without that light in the window, he'd be out in the cold storm alone once again.

 

 

I think the question, "What would you do for the person you love?" can't encompass the things Gideon does for Eva, because he doesn't simply love her. She's the reason he breathes and gets through his day and looks forward to the future when he never did before. If I felt that way about someone, what would I do to keep them safe from a proven threat? I know what I'd do for my children is limitless.

Wow....just wow...  I want to cry..

How awesome you popped in to help us understand some things! Thank you! So excited for this book :)

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How about this crazy idea...what if Gideon is arrested and put on trial for Nathan's murder early on in EWY.  The book could include the trial and how Gideon is found not guilty (reason of insanity, or self defense, whatever the case may be).  I bring this up because I'm having a hard time believing that if there's no trial and no finding Gideon innocent, Eva and Gideon will always have this hanging over them.  It's been said before, there's no statute of limitations on murder. Gideon could be arrested years later.  Sylvia has said repeatedly that Eva and Gideon will have their happily ever after.  How can they be happy if they're always looking over their shoulder? What are your thoughts?

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How about this crazy idea...what if Gideon is arrested and put on trial for Nathan's murder early on in EWY.  The book could include the trial and how Gideon is found not guilty (reason of insanity, or self defense, whatever the case may be).  I bring this up because I'm having a hard time believing that if there's no trial and no finding Gideon innocent, Eva and Gideon will always have this hanging over them.  It's been said before, there's no statute of limitations on murder. Gideon could be arrested years later.  Sylvia has said repeatedly that Eva and Gideon will have their happily ever after.  How can they be happy if they're always looking over their shoulder? What are your thoughts?

I agree with you about it always being unfinished business I would love to see a definitive conclusion to the matter!!

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Based on the snapshot for today. Eva and Gideon can't move forward. This is why I hate that Gideon is a murderer.

Well said Mrs. C it's just going to be so monumental for them both to move past...oh well.. Will there ever be a definitive conclusion let's hope so.:)

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How about this crazy idea...what if Gideon is arrested and put on trial for Nathan's murder early on in EWY.  The book could include the trial and how Gideon is found not guilty (reason of insanity, or self defense, whatever the case may be).  I bring this up because I'm having a hard time believing that if there's no trial and no finding Gideon innocent, Eva and Gideon will always have this hanging over them.  It's been said before, there's no statute of limitations on murder. Gideon could be arrested years later.  Sylvia has said repeatedly that Eva and Gideon will have their happily ever after.  How can they be happy if they're always looking over their shoulder? What are your thoughts?

hi

I think EWY only covers 2 weeks of their relationship. The time frame of a court appearance, won't appear in this book.

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How about this crazy idea...what if Gideon is arrested and put on trial for Nathan's murder early on in EWY.  The book could include the trial and how Gideon is found not guilty (reason of insanity, or self defense, whatever the case may be).  I bring this up because I'm having a hard time believing that if there's no trial and no finding Gideon innocent, Eva and Gideon will always have this hanging over them.  It's been said before, there's no statute of limitations on murder. Gideon could be arrested years later.  Sylvia has said repeatedly that Eva and Gideon will have their happily ever after.  How can they be happy if they're always looking over their shoulder? What are your thoughts?

 

In any serious felony case, two weeks would barely cover indictment, arrest and arraignment - basically formally charging a defendant and bringing him/her before a judge for the first court appearance. At most, within the first two weeks could come a second, preliminary hearing that would be the defense's first shot at trying to get the case tossed.

 

The process of taking a murder case from arrest to trial takes months at a bare minimum, and it can take even longer if the defense asks for extra time to build its case. The trial itself could take days, weeks, sometimes even a few months, depending upon the complexity of the evidence. The OJ Simpson murder trial ran 134 days.

 

You're right about the so-called "statute of limitations" -- conceivably the murder case could hang out in the background forever.

 

For nearly every other crime but murder, there's a limit to how long the police have to make an arrest. It varies according to different jurisdictions within the United States (because each of the 50 states has its own set of criminal laws.) But it's rare for the maximum time to exceed seven years. If the cops haven't made an arrest before the time runs out, the case is forever dead.

 

There is no statute of limitations, however, in cases of murder. There's no clock running for making an arrest. If an arrest isn't made right away and the investigation drags on, it eventually becomes what's known as a "cold case." But it's never gone away for good, not as long as it officially remains "unsolved" -- that is, no arrest has been made. There are unusual cases where years, even decades after a case went cold, the authorities solve it and arrest the murderer. Advances in forensic science have made this possible. It's now possible to test old evidence with new technology.

 

In the instances where police do charge someone with murder (or any crime for that matter), there are several possible outcomes. Usually, this is the order in which they'd unfold:

  1. The case never makes it to trial, because the defense succeeds in getting a judge to throw out the entire case for lack of evidence. This is very unusual, but it does happen.
  2. The case never makes it to trial, because the defense succeeds in getting some very important evidence tossed out, and the prosecution realizes what's left for evidence won't be enough to get a conviction. This is also unusual but not as unusual as a judge deciding himself/herself to throw out the case.
  3. The case never makes it to trial, because it settles through plea bargain. The vast majority of criminal cases do settle through plea bargains. This involves a defendant pleading guilty, sometimes to a less serious charge. The benefit for the defendant is a deal for a punishment less than the maximum. The benefit for the prosecution is the avoid the risk of losing a trial.
  4. The case goes to trial, and the jury cannot reach a unanimous verdict. This is known as a "hung jury," The prosecution then has to decide: attempt to go to trial again in order to get a verdict, or, drop the case. Most times, the prosecution will seek another trial, but sometimes they'll drop the case instead.
  5. The case goes to trial and the verdict is guilty. Most criminal trials do end in guilty verdicts, because generally only the strongest prosecution cases go to trial. With weaker cases, prosecutors usually cut deals.
  6. If the verdict is guilty, the defense then has the option (very often taken) to appeal the verdict. This process can drag on for years, and in the most unusual cases, have guilty verdicts overturned.
  7. The case goes to trial and the verdict is not guilty -- an acquittal. This ends a criminal case forever, because the U.S. Constitution forbids the government from attempting to again charge a person with a crime that he/she was found not guilty of at a trial. If the prosecution loses, it's OH-VER. OJ Simpson is an example - the jury came back with a not-guilty verdict. Under U.S. law, he cannot ever again be charged with those two murders he was accused of committing.

My belief is that Gideon won't even be charged with the murder, because if the prosecution dared to attempt it, scenario #2 will apply. The prosecution would realize a judge would throw out of evidence a crucial part of it's case - Gideon's motive. Detective Graves obtained her crucial evidence against Gideon illegally, by questioning Eva without a lawyer, so the prosecution can't ever use that evidence at the trial. And without that evidence, what's left won't be enough to win. Knowing that they'd lose the trial, the prosecution will decide to drop the whole case.

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OK, so what did Detective Graves do wrong that makes it impossible (I firmly believe) to get Gideon convicted of murder? I've discussed it in other threads, but I'll summarize here.

 

First, though, Detective Graves already has succeeded in getting one half of the evidence needed to attempt to convict Gideon of murder. She's got enough evidence to argue he had the "opportunity" to commit the crime.

  • Gideon had the opportunity to get to Nathan's hotel that night and stab him. He was near enough to the location the night it happened and he had access to Nathan.
  • Gideon cannot prove there's no way he could have gone after Nathan that night, because he was somewhere else the entire time and can prove it -- prove his has a solid alibi. The whole party, complete with press photos, was supposed to be Gideon's alibi. He was counting on the cops looking at the press photos and not even bothering to dig any deeper.
  • But the detective dug hard enough and found a one-hour window during which Gideon could have slipped away to commit the killing. Graves broke his alibi.

 

So now, she's building the other half of the case, "motive." Gideon's motive. She know he did it, his motive being taking extreme measures to save the life of the woman he loves from a very dangerous person. However, there's a difference between knowing Gideon loved Eva all along and being able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt to a jury.

  • Just like Gideon lined up an alibi, he lined up a defense cover story that if worse came to worse and he was charged, he his defense team could offer evidence suggesting Eva meant little to him. Gideon could show that even while Nathan was still alive, Gideon had gotten back together with another woman he's always been in love with - Corrine Giroux.
  • Through witnesses and press photos, Gideon can show he and Corrine were already dating again while Nathan was still alive.
  • Graves' side of the story is she can prove Gideon was in love with Eva all along and was devastated when Eva ended the relationship two days after Nathan died.
  • Graves saw Gideon with Eva's family on Friday evening (after Nathan was already dead.)
  • Graves would have copies of phone records that would prove Eva called Gideon from her home phone to his cell phone on Saturday morning.
  • Graves can provide eyewitness testimony about Gideon's behavior during that phone call on Saturday.

 

BUT .....

 

Those phone records only show who called who at what time and how long the call lasted. There's no recording of what was said during the call.

 

So Graves tricked Eva into confirming that during that telephone call, Eva broke off the relationship -- she dumped Gideon after Nathan died, not Gideon left her while Nathan was still alive. Graves got the evidence.

 

But Graves obtained it illegally. She questioned Eva without a lawyer after Eva explicitly invoked her right to have a lawyer present for questioning. And because the evidence is illegally obtained, it cannot be used in court. Ever. It's permanently ruined. And because that evidence is now unusable, the motive side of the entire prosecution's case will collapse. They'll never win -- so they won't even attempt to charge Gideon.

 

Starting on June 5, you ladies either get to say I was right or tease me for guessing wrong. :)

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OK, so what did Detective Graves do wrong that makes it impossible (I firmly believe) to get Gideon convicted of murder? I've discussed it in other threads, but I'll summarize here.

 

First, though, Detective Graves already has succeeded in getting one half of the evidence needed to attempt to convict Gideon of murder. She's got enough evidence to argue he had the "opportunity" to commit the crime.

  • Gideon had the opportunity to get to Nathan's hotel that night and stab him. He was near enough to the location the night it happened and he had access to Nathan.
  • Gideon cannot prove there's no way he could have gone after Nathan that night, because he was somewhere else the entire time and can prove it -- prove his has a solid alibi. The whole party, complete with press photos, was supposed to be Gideon's alibi. He was counting on the cops looking at the press photos and not even bothering to dig any deeper.
  • But the detective dug hard enough and found a one-hour window during which Gideon could have slipped away to commit the killing. Graves broke his alibi.
 

So now, she's building the other half of the case, "motive." Gideon's motive. She know he did it, his motive being taking extreme measures to save the life of the woman he loves from a very dangerous person. However, there's a difference between knowing Gideon loved Eva all along and being able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt to a jury.

  • Just like Gideon lined up an alibi, he lined up a defense cover story that if worse came to worse and he was charged, he his defense team could offer evidence suggesting Eva meant little to him. Gideon could show that even while Nathan was still alive, Gideon had gotten back together with another woman he's always been in love with - Corrine Giroux.
  • Through witnesses and press photos, Gideon can show he and Corrine were already dating again while Nathan was still alive.
  • Graves' side of the story is she can prove Gideon was in love with Eva all along and was devastated when Eva ended the relationship two days after Nathan died.
  • Graves saw Gideon with Eva's family on Friday evening (after Nathan was already dead.)
  • Graves would have copies of phone records that would prove Eva called Gideon from her home phone to his cell phone on Saturday morning.
  • Graves can provide eyewitness testimony about Gideon's behavior during that phone call on Saturday.
 

BUT .....

 

Those phone records only show who called who at what time and how long the call lasted. There's no recording of what was said during the call.

 

So Graves tricked Eva into confirming that during that telephone call, Eva broke off the relationship -- she dumped Gideon after Nathan died, not Gideon left her while Nathan was still alive. Graves got the evidence.

 

But Graves obtained it illegally. She questioned Eva without a lawyer after Eva explicitly invoked her right to have a lawyer present for questioning. And because the evidence is illegally obtained, it cannot be used in court. Ever. It's permanently ruined. And because that evidence is now unusable, the motive side of the entire prosecution's case will collapse. They'll never win -- so they won't even attempt to charge Gideon.

 

Starting on June 5, you ladies either get to say I was right or tease me for guessing wrong. :)

HEY! can't you hear me from across the Atlantic cheering you on. I agree.
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OK, so what did Detective Graves do wrong that makes it impossible (I firmly believe) to get Gideon convicted of murder? I've discussed it in other threads, but I'll summarize here.

 

First, though, Detective Graves already has succeeded in getting one half of the evidence needed to attempt to convict Gideon of murder. She's got enough evidence to argue he had the "opportunity" to commit the crime.

  • Gideon had the opportunity to get to Nathan's hotel that night and stab him. He was near enough to the location the night it happened and he had access to Nathan.
  • Gideon cannot prove there's no way he could have gone after Nathan that night, because he was somewhere else the entire time and can prove it -- prove his has a solid alibi. The whole party, complete with press photos, was supposed to be Gideon's alibi. He was counting on the cops looking at the press photos and not even bothering to dig any deeper.
  • But the detective dug hard enough and found a one-hour window during which Gideon could have slipped away to commit the killing. Graves broke his alibi.

 

So now, she's building the other half of the case, "motive." Gideon's motive. She know he did it, his motive being taking extreme measures to save the life of the woman he loves from a very dangerous person. However, there's a difference between knowing Gideon loved Eva all along and being able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt to a jury.

  • Just like Gideon lined up an alibi, he lined up a defense cover story that if worse came to worse and he was charged, he his defense team could offer evidence suggesting Eva meant little to him. Gideon could show that even while Nathan was still alive, Gideon had gotten back together with another woman he's always been in love with - Corrine Giroux.
  • Through witnesses and press photos, Gideon can show he and Corrine were already dating again while Nathan was still alive.
  • Graves' side of the story is she can prove Gideon was in love with Eva all along and was devastated when Eva ended the relationship two days after Nathan died.
  • Graves saw Gideon with Eva's family on Friday evening (after Nathan was already dead.)
  • Graves would have copies of phone records that would prove Eva called Gideon from her home phone to his cell phone on Saturday morning.
  • Graves can provide eyewitness testimony about Gideon's behavior during that phone call on Saturday.

 

BUT .....

 

Those phone records only show who called who at what time and how long the call lasted. There's no recording of what was said during the call.

 

So Graves tricked Eva into confirming that during that telephone call, Eva broke off the relationship -- she dumped Gideon after Nathan died, not Gideon left her while Nathan was still alive. Graves got the evidence.

 

But Graves obtained it illegally. She questioned Eva without a lawyer after Eva explicitly invoked her right to have a lawyer present for questioning. And because the evidence is illegally obtained, it cannot be used in court. Ever. It's permanently ruined. And because that evidence is now unusable, the motive side of the entire prosecution's case will collapse. They'll never win -- so they won't even attempt to charge Gideon.

 

Starting on June 5, you ladies either get to say I was right or tease me for guessing wrong. :)

 

You are correct

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