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SPOILERS: Entwined with You Overall Discussion


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Hi Ladies,

 

Well, this is my first post, finally!  I have been reading and thoroughly enjoying all your posts for months. Honestly this forum is what got me through the longggg wait for EWY, So thank you for that!  My husband is SOOO tired of hearing about Gideon, I think he might be a little jealous, LOL. Anyway I just wanted to say thank you and I appreciate all your thoughts, suggestions, dissections and theories!

Hi Shan, 

Welcome to the forum.  I hope you enjoy yourself.

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Hi Julie,

I was thinking about what you and others have said about Jean Francois and I wonder how much of a role he played in the demise of his marriage.  It takes two to make a marriage and two to break a marriage.  Could it be that Jean Francois neglected Corinne on the most elemental level or had foolishly deluded himself into thinking that everything was fine in his marriage?  Could he have been sticking his head in the sand all along?

 

If your perspective is that Corinne was an evil so and so and everyone who came into contact with her should be pitied (just paraphrasing from postings that hate the character) then that’s fine.  I won’t discuss this topic with you further.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

No matter what a pancake and every situation has two sides. 

 

P.S.  If Corinne was four months pregnant, how on earth did Jean Francois not know his wife was pregnant?  Did he not notice anything?  No swollen nipples?  No morning sickness?  No sensitivity to smells?  Nothing?  That doesn’t sound like a man who was very attentive to his wife.  Corinne was in New York for only a short period of time.  The rest of that pregnant time she would have been with Jean Francois (perhaps even having sex on occasion). 

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Another thing I keep thinking about is even if Gideon's mother didn't believe her son had been abused, how the h e l l could she have allowed someone her son obviously disliked so much to keep working with him? She's twice da**ed in my opinion. Of course Gideon still has feelings for her - children can suffer terrible abuse at the hands of their own parents and still not want to be taken from them.

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I am assuming that is what she thought if he had asked her for it. I am leaning towards the theory of the ring being sold to pay off the debts that were incurred with the Ponzi scheme and Gideon going back and buying the ring from it's owner.

 

Hi Kirsten, 

I am lost here.  Could you please explain?  How could an engagement ring be part of ponzi scheme?  Wouldn't the authorities have to prove that ring was purchased with ill gotten gains? 

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Another thing I keep thinking about is even if Gideon's mother didn't believe her son had been abused, how the h e l l could she have allowed someone her son obviously disliked so much to keep working with him? She's twice da**ed in my opinion. Of course Gideon still has feelings for her - children can suffer terrible abuse at the hands of their own parents and still not want to be taken from them.

 

Hi Nrock, 

I have been saying that over and over and over and over and over again (well you get my drift)!  That entire situation was disgusting! 

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Gigi

I think given that Gideon's mother's marriage ended so unhappily, I would imagine the ring wouldn't hold much sentimental value for her. I wouldn't be surprised if she gave it to Gideon because it wasn't really appropriate for her to keep it and certainly not to wear it. And she wouldn't have saved it for Ireland because it didn't come from Ireland's father. She probably wouldn't have minded if Gideon gave it to Corinne, but she couldn't stand Eva and would have hated for her to have her ring.

Hi Nrock,

Do you mean that by Gideon's father killing himself that is what was an unhappy demise to the marriage?  I just want to make sure that I understand.  Your clarification is greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

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...Personally I'm not convinced she knew she was pregnant. Can a pregnant woman take anti-depressants? Would she have done so regardless of the consequences if she had known about the pregnancy?

Would she have attempted suicide as a manipulation tp get Gideon back, knowing she was pregnant?

Don't get me wrong I think she is a manipulative b**** and the sooner she ###### off the better. But I'm not convinced she knew of this pregnancy...

I agree!!!

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Hi Kirsten, 

I am lost here.  Could you please explain?  How could an engagement ring be part of ponzi scheme?  Wouldn't the authorities have to prove that ring was purchased with ill gotten gains?

The government sells assets to try to regain as much as possible. She's wondering if the ring was sold and then Gideon bought it years later.

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Hi Nrock,

Do you mean that by Gideon's father killing himself that is what was an unhappy demise to the marriage?  I just want to make sure that I understand.  Your clarification is greatly appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

Gigi,

I believe early on Gideon says something like his parents had been happy and everyone was happy, but then suddenly they were yelling and screaming at each other - obviously when the pyramid began crumbling. Don't you think Elizabeth would have been getting ready to leave/divorce him for his crimes? His suicide obviated the need for that. I can't believe any woman would want to hold on to memories of a marriage that ended in either of those ways. I myself went through an unhappy divorce and didn't want anything to do with my engagement ring. But I did save it for my daughter.

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Hi Fayeth,

I don’t think that Gideon would have stolen Elizabeth’s engagement ring.  I just wondered what he may have said to his mother to get his hands on it.  I don’t think that he would have asked her when he and Corinne were engaged.  Gideon describes that time in his life with a lot of distress and panic.  Somehow I don’t think that if what everyone has said is true and that that ring represented a really positive time in his life with his mother and father, I don’t think that Gideon would have given Corinne that ring.

 

Whether Gideon was willing to admit that to himself or not, on some level, he knew that a marriage with Corinne would have been a disaster and in the end he would have lost himself and a very precious rare memento of a happy time in his life.  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

 

 

I completely agree, he would never have stolen the ring or given it to Corinne.  That is the point that I was making, Elizabeth seems shocked and if it was not (which I am positive it isn't) one of those two situations, than most likely he asked in general for it or it was given to him and yet she (Elizabeth) is so surpised to see it on Eva. 

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The government sells assets to try to regain as much as possible. She's wondering if the ring was sold and then Gideon bought it years later.

Hi Donnad, 

Thank you for the response.  What I was getting at is that can the government just seize everything?  Wouldn't the government have to prove that Geoffrey Cross bought Elizabeth's engagement ring with ill gotten gains?  I know that there was somehthing similar with Bernie Madoff (sorry if the spelling is off) regarding one of the properties.  The government couldn't prove that his wife or her family didn't purchase the property with her family's money and as a result the government couldn't seize that asset.

 

I would have to think that Geoffrey Cross had money before he married Elizabeth and would have purchased that ring with that money and not the money from the Ponzi scheme. I guess the real question will be how long was Cross running that scam?  Pre-Elizabeth and marriage or post-marriage? 

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As far as the trip to San Diego goes, I can see both reasons why Eva would want and would not want Gideon to go with her.  First off we have to remember that she had been wanting to go to SD with Cary since the book pretty much started and way before she and Gideon got married.  I think she would want him to go with them to not only spend more time with her Dad, which we all know is important, but to also see where she has spent the last four plus years of her life and see/learn more about her.  I however think that she might not want him to go, so that she and Cary can have a trip together (possibly their last just the two of them) and to see Dr. Travis which she states is very important for not only her but also for Cary.

 

So if Gideon doesn't go with them, him sending security would have NOTHING to do with not trusting her or thinking she is going to cheat.  When Eva and Cary went to Las Vegas, Gideon had security for her and even in NY she cannot (literally) cross the street without Angus/Raul or someone taking care of her.  Eva knows (as do we as the readers) that this is exactly how Gideon shows his love for his Wife.  He takes are of her, plans everything and does whatever he can to let her know that she is safe (his #1 priority) and taken care of.  Eva has embraced that and so should we.  That is just Gideon being Gideon.

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Plus she spouting that BS to Corrine's parents. I understood Gideon wanting to get Eva out of there I just wish he would have spoken to her about it, not sent Angus in to get her.

 

I was frustrated with Gideon the way he handled the situation at the hospital. I was shocked when Angus showed up and said Gideon texted him. I'm wondering when he sent the text? Angus seemed to arrive pretty quickly, so do you think Gideon sent the text before they arrived at the hospital? Maybe he didn't really want Eva going but didn't know how to tell her.  Also after he left the hospital and found Deanna waiting for him. Was she at his penthouse or Eva's apartment? 

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I completely agree, he would never have stolen the ring or given it to Corinne.  That is the point that I was making, Elizabeth seems shocked and if it was not (which I am positive it isn't) one of those two situations, than most likely he asked in general for it or it was given to him and yet she (Elizabeth) is so surpised to see it on Eva. 

 

Hi Fayeth,S 

Something else just occurred to me, Gideon could have been left the ring in his father's will.  Since Gideon was still a minor when his father passed away, his mother may have been holding on to that ring, but when he begam legal age he may have received a part of his inheritence so to speak (i.e. the engagement ring).  What do you think?  What does everyone think? 

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Gigi,

I believe early on Gideon says something like his parents had been happy and everyone was happy, but then suddenly they were yelling and screaming at each other - obviously when the pyramid began crumbling. Don't you think Elizabeth would have been getting ready to leave/divorce him for his crimes? His suicide obviated the need for that. I can't believe any woman would want to hold on to memories of a marriage that ended in either of those ways. I myself went through an unhappy divorce and didn't want anything to do with my engagement ring. But I did save it for my daughter.

 

Hi Nrock, 

Your scenario is plausible.  It could be that Elizabeth Vidal nee Cross was planning to divorce her husband and it could also be that Geoffrey Cross saw the wolves at the door (the authorities) couldn't handle the prospect of spending the next 100 years or so in prison and decided to make his exit (i.e. his suicide).  Look at Bernie Madoff's son and his wife.  Everything seemed fine, everyone found out what a fraud Madoff Sr. was, Jr. had to deal with facing the public everyday, could't handle the pressure and then decided to hang himself.  By all accounts Jr. was never involved in his father's schemes or scams.  Jr. killed himself one day, leaving his wife to potentially find his body.  How horrific!!  The woman had no idea her husband was planning to kill himself. 

 

I can see your point of saving your ring for your daughter.  I guess we will have to wait and see what Sylvia decides to write. 

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Hi Kirsten ,Nathalia and Gigi

Kirsten when you said Eva is subconsciously punishing Gideon ,that was a light bulb moment for me it helps put some of her behavior in perspective .It helps to see that the thoughts , feelings she has for Brett and her sending him mixed messages are not just for the sake of Brett but are due in part to a crack in her and Gideon's relationship that for me makes it feel less like a betrayal.

I was seriously bugged about the whole thing it helps to have people with a different view because it can help open your mind to another possibility /interpretation.

I think she needs to take the SD trip without Gideon and security detail and see Brett without Cary as a buffer because she needs to be the one to firmly put an end to whatever hopes he has and be able to resist whatever overtures he may make.If she doesn't resolve it on her own for herself without any coercion it'll never really be over for her ,him and us.

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I was frustrated with Gideon the way he handled the situation at the hospital. I was shocked when Angus showed up and said Gideon texted him. I'm wondering when he sent the text? Angus seemed to arrive pretty quickly, so do you think Gideon sent the text before they arrived at the hospital? Maybe he didn't really want Eva going but didn't know how to tell her.  Also after he left the hospital and found Deanna waiting for him. Was she at his penthouse or Eva's apartment? 

 

Hi Shan and Kirsten, 

You both make good points.  I think that Angus was in the hospital at the time.  I know that he was detained by hospital security because of the fight with Jean Francois.  Perhaps while Gideon was being carted off by security he made a quick mention to Angus to go and get Eva.  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

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Hi Kirsten ,Nathalia and Gigi

Kirsten when you said Eva is subconsciously punishing Gideon ,that was a light bulb moment for me it helps put some of her behavior in perspective .It helps to see that the thoughts , feelings she has for Brett and her sending him mixed messages are not just for the sake of Brett but are due in part to a crack in her and Gideon's relationship that for me makes it feel less like a betrayal.

I was seriously bugged about the whole thing it helps to have people with a different view because it can help open your mind to another possibility /interpretation.

I think she needs to take the SD trip without Gideon and security detail and see Brett without Cary as a buffer because she needs to be the one to firmly put an end to whatever hopes he has and be able to resist whatever overtures he may make.If she doesn't resolve it on her own for herself without any coercion it'll never really be over for her ,him and us.

 

Hi Mam2e,

I find it really interesting to see what other opinions are on the subject.  When you said that you felt a sense of betrayal, I saw as an opportunity on Eva's part to protect her boyfriend/husband.  I was reading those passages from the perspective of Eva knowing that Gideon had killed for her and that they both were unsure as to whom was a suspect.  I get the feeling that the only reason Eva  ever agreed to see Brett was to keep up apprearances.

 

I think that because Gideon killed Nathan for Eva and she doesn't have the luxury of taking the time to digest that information  (which would be overwhelming to say the least), I think that she was forced to confront her past memories with Brett because she needs Brett as alibi of sorts (she is trying to keep up appearances so that the police won't be too suspicious).  Other than that, I think that time would have healed this wound and Brett would have wound up a distant unpleasant memory.  Eva didn't honour herself or her body back when she was sleeping with Brett and she didn't honour Gideon when she used Brett (by kissing him) to make Gideon suffer.  I just saw the entire scenario as a lose/lose situation.  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

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Posted Today, 07:47 PM

jwil625, on 08 Jun 2013 - 7:28 PM, said:snapback.png

 

Kirsten, on 07 Jun 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:snapback.png

If Gideon did ask for the ring maybe Elizabeth thought it would be for Corrine.

 

I am assuming that is what she thought if he had asked her for it. I am leaning towards the theory of the ring being sold to pay off the debts that were incurred with the Ponzi scheme and Gideon going back and buying the ring from it's owner.

 

 

I'm still wondering about this, Elizabeth definitely seemed shocked to see "her ring" on Eva's finger. So either Elizabeth didn't know Gideon had the ring and was perplexed to see it. Or he asked Elizabeth for it and she assumed that he would be asking Corinne to marry him.  I was also astounded when Elizabeth told  Ava  " I won't let you take him away from me".  Really, is she crazy too (like Corinne)? She doesn't seem to have much of a relationship with Gideon, they certainly are not close. I'm just really confused by her behavior, what do you all think?

 

 

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Hi Kirsten, 

I am lost here.  Could you please explain?  How could an engagement ring be part of ponzi scheme?  Wouldn't the authorities have to prove that ring was purchased with ill gotten gains? 

To pay back the stolen money almost all of the Cross' assets would have to be gathered and auctioned away. So someone mentioned earlier they were surprised Elizabeth was able to keep the ring, but I thought perhaps she wasn't allowed to, and it was sold at auction. Maybe years later Gideon came across it and purchased it.

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OK-don't hate me, but was anyone else disappointed that there weren't any Eva/Corinne face offs? I was really looking forward to Eva smacking (not literally) Corinne. Anyone else?

Yes, but I liked the Eva - Mr. Giroux conversations. He had no idea what he was getting into when confronting Eva.

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