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Mothers and Fathers - Monica and Elizabeth and Victor and Geoffrey


BettyY37

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Yes I'm good hope you had a great summer I hope we will be reading CBY and blogging here late into the night very soon!! :) :)

Summer was good thanks.

See there's a few engines being revved up on these pages! Quite entertaining really. :)

Looking forward to burning the midnight oil with you soon. Bring on CBY. The rest of the girls are waiting. :)

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I did a quick search and most US Ponzi schemers get up to 20 years but they all were paroled much sooner.  He was a young man so he could make a comeback.  Also they are confined in low security prisons so, while prison is terrible they aren't with harden criminals.

hi Sharon

In the UK prisoners get parole after doing two thirds of their sentence, Geoffrey could have been out by the time Gideon was say 18? If the same applied in the USA .

Was the humiliation and ruination to much for Geoffrey? I think Lizzy knows. Why did she marry so quickly after his death, was she having an affair with Vidal?

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hi Sharon

In the UK prisoners get parole after doing two thirds of their sentence, Geoffrey could have been out by the time Gideon was say 18? If the same applied in the USA .

Was the humiliation and ruination to much for Geoffrey? I think Lizzy knows. Why did she marry so quickly after his death, was she having an affair with Vidal?

 

Julie,  There isn't a rule regarding 2/3 of the sentence served as far as I know but every state is different. (It is a shame LN isn't here she could let us know about the NY laws for this type case.) Some people get out after serving as little as a year to 18 months.  I think it depends on the sentencing guidelines. I know sentencing guidelines seem to be lenient for white collar criminals. Regardless I agree if Geoffrey went to jail he would have been out and still have skills and time to start over.

 

Since he committed suicide it seems he couldn't deal with the humiliation and negative publicity. He would lose most of his wealth as part of his sentence and Liz would most likely divorce him.  Gideon commented on the fighting I don't see her sticking around while Geoffry rebuilds his life. 

 

My guess is Liz remarried so quickly to change her name and escape some of the negative publicity.  I don't know if she was having an affair but I'm sure she knew Vidal and he married her to help insulate her from the publicity.  Everything I've read about Vidal Sr. makes me think he is a good guy but a little spineless.

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hi Sharon

In the UK prisoners get parole after doing two thirds of their sentence, Geoffrey could have been out by the time Gideon was say 18? If the same applied in the USA .

Was the humiliation and ruination to much for Geoffrey? I think Lizzy knows. Why did she marry so quickly after his death, was she having an affair with Vidal?

 

Julie,  There isn't a rule regarding 2/3 of the sentence served as far as I know but every state is different. (It is a shame LN isn't here she could let us know about the NY laws for this type case.) Some people get out after serving as little as a year to 18 months.  I think it depends on the sentencing guidelines. I know sentencing guidelines seem to be lenient for white collar criminals. Regardless I agree if Geoffrey went to jail he would have been out and still have skills and time to start over.

 

Since he committed suicide it seems he couldn't deal with the humiliation and negative publicity. He would lose most of his wealth as part of his sentence and Liz would most likely divorce him.  Gideon commented on the fighting I don't see her sticking around while Geoffry rebuilds his life. 

 

My guess is Liz remarried so quickly to change her name and escape some of the negative publicity.  I don't know if she was having an affair but I'm sure she knew Vidal and he married her to help insulate her from the publicity.  Everything I've read about Vidal Sr. makes me think he is a good guy but a little spineless.

 

Hi ladies. I have always looked at Geoffrey Cross' character as being loosely based on Bernie Madoff. Now Ponzi schemes normally fall under the Federal Government jurisdiction so that is the same state to state. Now Bernie was sentenced to 150 years for his crimes. Even with time off for good behavior he would have never taken a breath of fresh air as a free man again.

 

As far as Vidal Sr. I go back and forth. I really had assumed that he and Lizzie were having an affair while Geoffrey was alive. My opinion changed on that front a bit with EWY. I walked away from that book thinking much like Sharon he's a decent guy, but spineless.

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Hi ladies. I have always looked at Geoffrey Cross' character as being loosely based on Bernie Madoff. Now Ponzi schemes normally fall under the Federal Government jurisdiction so that is the same state to state. Now Bernie was sentenced to 150 years for his crimes. Even with time off for good behavior he would have never taken a breath of fresh air as a free man again.

 

As far as Vidal Sr. I go back and forth. I really had assumed that he and Lizzie were having an affair while Geoffrey was alive. My opinion changed on that front a bit with EWY. I walked away from that book thinking much like Sharon he's a decent guy, but spineless.

 

Kristen, 

 

I agree Geoffrey is based on Madoff but Madoff was convicted using current laws.  Twenty years ago I don't think these guys were sentenced as strictly.  There are a lot of men who received much lighter sentences for Ponzi type schemes.  Wasn't there a big company in the 80s that used some scheme and the men responsible received very light sentences. It seems that a lot of these crooks get off easy. Who knows maybe we will learn more in the next two books. Regardless Geoffrey was a crooks and coward and took the coward's way out.  It must be difficult for Gideon to grow up with that hanging over his head.

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Julie,  There isn't a rule regarding 2/3 of the sentence served as far as I know but every state is different. (It is a shame LN isn't here she could let us know about the NY laws for this type case.) Some people get out after serving as little as a year to 18 months.  I think it depends on the sentencing guidelines. I know sentencing guidelines seem to be lenient for white collar criminals. Regardless I agree if Geoffrey went to jail he would have been out and still have skills and time to start over.

 

Since he committed suicide it seems he couldn't deal with the humiliation and negative publicity. He would lose most of his wealth as part of his sentence and Liz would most likely divorce him.  Gideon commented on the fighting I don't see her sticking around while Geoffry rebuilds his life. 

 

My guess is Liz remarried so quickly to change her name and escape some of the negative publicity.  I don't know if she was having an affair but I'm sure she knew Vidal and he married her to help insulate her from the publicity.  Everything I've read about Vidal Sr. makes me think he is a good guy but a little spineless.

  

Hi ladies. I have always looked at Geoffrey Cross' character as being loosely based on Bernie Madoff. Now Ponzi schemes normally fall under the Federal Government jurisdiction so that is the same state to state. Now Bernie was sentenced to 150 years for his crimes. Even with time off for good behavior he would have never taken a breath of fresh air as a free man again.

 

As far as Vidal Sr. I go back and forth. I really had assumed that he and Lizzie were having an affair while Geoffrey was alive. My opinion changed on that front a bit with EWY. I walked away from that book thinking much like Sharon he's a decent guy, but spineless.

  

Kristen, 

 

I agree Geoffrey is based on Madoff but Madoff was convicted using current laws.  Twenty years ago I don't think these guys were sentenced as strictly.  There are a lot of men who received much lighter sentences for Ponzi type schemes.  Wasn't there a big company in the 80s that used some scheme and the men responsible received very light sentences. It seems that a lot of these crooks get off easy. Who knows maybe we will learn more in the next two books. Regardless Geoffrey was a crooks and coward and took the coward's way out.  It must be difficult for Gideon to grow up with that hanging over his head.

Well ladies, it's like old times. :)

What I always come back to is, why didn't Christopher Snr adopt Gideon, giving him his surname. Was it him or Lizzy? I've got a feeling it's Lizzy. As you say, he comes across as decent, even Gideon has a fair business relationship with him. Oh roll on 2014 our agony will be over.

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     Well ladies, it's like old times. :)

What I always come back to is, why didn't Christopher Snr adopt Gideon, giving him his surname. Was it him or Lizzy? I've got a feeling it's Lizzy. As you say, he comes across as decent, even Gideon has a fair business relationship with him. Oh roll on 2014 our agony will be over.

 

Oh Julie I don't want to wait until 2014.

 

it does seem like old times.

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I agree I would like to know also why Chris Sr did not adopt Gideon and change his name. I think it must have had to do with Lizzy because she seems to call all the shots...

In hindsight, Chris adopting Gideon might have made all the difference for him. He would have been included in his new family and not have been left outside to take the fall for his Geoffrey. Great "what if" scenario. I like that idea as a talking point on this topic. Chris rejected Gideon.

I wonder if Angus came from the Cross household to the Vidal's or did he work for Vidal when he married Elizabeth.

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In hindsight, Chris adopting Gideon might have made all the difference for him. He would have been included in his new family and have been left outside to take the fall for his Geoffrey. Great "what if" scenario. I like that idea as a talking point on this topic. Chris rejected Gideon.

I wonder if Angus came from the Cross household to the Vidal's or did he work for Vidal when he married Elizabeth.

I have always assumed he was already with the Vidals as Chris Sr. 's driver/bodyguard...

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so, this crazy notion just popped into my mind.because of just reading your cheating posts. How is it that a little sister from another husband can look so much like Gideon when the brother has reddish hair?  do you think maybe lizzy said Gideon was Geoffrys but not. and maybe Gideon is angry because she made him feel like s*** all these years?

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so, this crazy notion just popped into my mind.because of just reading your cheating posts. How is it that a little sister from another husband can look so much like Gideon when the brother has reddish hair?  do you think maybe lizzy said Gideon was Geoffrys but not. and maybe Gideon is angry because she made him feel like s*** all these years?

No I think Gideon is definitely Geoffrey's son . Chris Jr just looks like Chris Sr. When Eva met him at the garden party she said Chris Sr reminded me of his son with his slate green eyes and boyish grin...

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so, this crazy notion just popped into my mind.because of just reading your cheating posts. How is it that a little sister from another husband can look so much like Gideon when the brother has reddish hair?  do you think maybe lizzy said Gideon was Geoffrys but not. and maybe Gideon is angry because she made him feel like s*** all these years?

My recollection of genetics is that the X chromosome of the mother can often dominate the short Y chromosome that the father contributes for their sons and that same X will do the same for the daughters over the father's X. However, if the mom gives her child her other X, the recessive X, you get Christopher.

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First I want to say that I am not giving up hope of this book being out by the end of the year. I have spoken with SD regarding this and her goal was always to have CBY out by the end of the year. If this book is not out by then it is on Penguin and not her.

 

Second the only person who could have initiated Gideon changing his last name really would have been Lizzie. As Gideon's only living parent and because of his age Lizzie would have had to initiate a name change. Chris wouldn't have needed to agree to it. She could have picked any sort of name for him and as long as the fees were paid and it wasn't offensive it would have been approved. I'm not sure that Gideon changing his name would have made a bit of difference at the time. I am sure Geoffrey's name was splashed everywhere so no doubt people knew he had a wife and a child and Geoffrey screwed people that were in his social circle so there was certainly no escaping that. Yes years down the line Gideon having a different last name would have been probably helpful, but at that point Gideon could have refused the name change even if Lizzie and Chris were all for it.

 

The same holds true for Chris adopting Gideon. When Lizzie and Chris Sr. married he certainly could have filed the paperwork to adopt Gideon and it would have been approved 1-2-3. That gets tricky with a say 12 year old Gideon because at that point a judge is going to heavily weigh what Gideon wants.

 

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My recollection of genetics is that the X chromosome of the mother can often dominate the short Y chromosome that the father contributes for their sons and that same X will do the same for the daughters over the father's X. However, if the mom gives her child her other X, the recessive X, you get Christopher.

Makes sense to me Betty.

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Julie,  There isn't a rule regarding 2/3 of the sentence served as far as I know but every state is different. (It is a shame LN isn't here she could let us know about the NY laws for this type case.) Some people get out after serving as little as a year to 18 months.  I think it depends on the sentencing guidelines. I know sentencing guidelines seem to be lenient for white collar criminals. Regardless I agree if Geoffrey went to jail he would have been out and still have skills and time to start over.

 

Since he committed suicide it seems he couldn't deal with the humiliation and negative publicity. He would lose most of his wealth as part of his sentence and Liz would most likely divorce him.  Gideon commented on the fighting I don't see her sticking around while Geoffry rebuilds his life. 

 

My guess is Liz remarried so quickly to change her name and escape some of the negative publicity.  I don't know if she was having an affair but I'm sure she knew Vidal and he married her to help insulate her from the publicity.  Everything I've read about Vidal Sr. makes me think he is a good guy but a little spineless.

 

This is actually for all the Ponzi schemer questions.   First this is handled by the FBI.   It also depends on the monies involved and such.   Madoff got 150, others have gotten 20 or 40 - all depending on the monies involved.

 

Ponzi schemers are too selfish to kill themselves but we also have to understand this book is not real life.   I've always had in the back of my mind that he was murdered but we will soon find out.  Hopefully sooner than later.

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This is actually for all the Ponzi schemer questions.   First this is handled by the FBI.   It also depends on the monies involved and such.   Madoff got 150, others have gotten 20 or 40 - all depending on the monies involved.

 

Ponzi schemers are too selfish to kill themselves but we also have to understand this book is not real life.   I've always had in the back of my mind that he was murdered but we will soon find out.  Hopefully sooner than later.

I agree that I've always had a wee bit of a suspicion that he was murdered too Donnad.

 

It also goes by people involved in the scheme Julie. Every person adds on another count.

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This is actually for all the Ponzi schemer questions.   First this is handled by the FBI.   It also depends on the monies involved and such.   Madoff got 150, others have gotten 20 or 40 - all depending on the monies involved.

 

Ponzi schemers are too selfish to kill themselves but we also have to understand this book is not real life.   I've always had in the back of my mind that he was murdered but we will soon find out.  Hopefully sooner than later.

Well ladies

Looks like us three are on the same page where Geoffrey's death is concerned. Somehow I don't think it will be in book 4 though. :(

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Julie that reminds me I always thought Angus put an end to Hugh's abuse too.  That kind of kills my theory that Hugh moved onto Chris Jr.  Angus is a good man and wouldn't leave Hugh around to hurt anyone else. If Chris was abused by Hugh it was before Gideon left home.  However, like Gideon said "He takes sibling rivalry to the extreme."  Chris is most likely very jealous of Gideon because Gideon is more successful in all areas.

Hi Sharon,

After thinking about the description of what the library layout looked like; do you think that it is possible that Christopher Jr. accidently saw the therapist abusing Gideon (there was mention of glass doors) and the therapist who was busy abusing Gideon not notice?

 

It reminds me of the scene when Magdalene walked (or should I say, saw Gideon performing oral on Eva).  Although Gideon didn't notice, Eva saw her and made eye contact with her?  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

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Going off at a tangent.

Geoffrey death has always bothered me. Was it suicide or murder?. I'm sure it would help Gideons abandonment issues if Geoffrey was murdered. Re: Gideons comments about Hugh's son in Entwined.

I maintain Geoffrey was murdered by an investor to his Ponzi scheme, and Gideon found the body.

If Geoffrey was murdered, do you think that it could be one of the characters we have already been introduced to or is it someone new? 

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I have always wondered where Monica actually delivered Eva since she was disowned... Did she go to a home for unwed mothers or a convent ... I hope Sylvia addresses this . Perhaps she had a sympathetic relative that took her in you know like an aunt or uncle that lived back east and maybe that is how she ended up in the New York metro area...What do you all think?

I was wondering the same thing Sscrph; which State did Monica come from originally?  How did she wind up in New York?  All of your suggestions are all plausible because we don't know anything about Monica's background yet.

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Kristen, 

 

I agree Geoffrey is based on Madoff but Madoff was convicted using current laws.  Twenty years ago I don't think these guys were sentenced as strictly.  There are a lot of men who received much lighter sentences for Ponzi type schemes.  Wasn't there a big company in the 80s that used some scheme and the men responsible received very light sentences. It seems that a lot of these crooks get off easy. Who knows maybe we will learn more in the next two books. Regardless Geoffrey was a crooks and coward and took the coward's way out.  It must be difficult for Gideon to grow up with that hanging over his head.

Hi Sharon,

Kirsten is one our resident legal experts. I am sure that she would be able to fill in the gaps in a pinch.  I have always trusted her sage counsel.  :)

 

You bring up a good point though; have the US laws regarding Ponzi Schemes been changed or revised in the twenty some years, to make them more stringent or stricter?  Would Geoffrey Cross gone to a "Camp Cupcake"  or a Federal Bed & Breakfast like Attica?

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Hi Kirsten,

I had a quick thought; did Elizabeth Vidal purposely refuse to change Gideon's last name because that would deflect any negative attention from her (as the former widow of the dirtbag Geoffrey Cross) and onto Gideon?  Could she have thought that the general public would treat Gideon more kindly or be more willing to forgive?  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

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