mrsmajessick

We'll agree to disagree most respectfully Mrs. M. Along with GiGi, you're one of my favorite frequent-flier commenters.

 

I'm a former newspaper reporter who for many years specialized in the cops and court beat. It was a daily newspaper, and so every murder I covered was soup to nuts including sitting through the entire trials for cases that actually went to trial.

 

And so I saw prosecutors sometimes make the mistake of bringing to trial cases they ought not to have tried.  The most common mistake was because no matter how big the pile of evidence, it all was circumstantial. The prosecution was convinced they could meet the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The defense, knowing the case was circumstantial, decided to roll the dice rather than take a deal.

 

The rock solid cases all got plea bargained. On average, I saw about 90% of cases settle by being plead out. Usually by offering a murder one case a murder two deal, so that the defendant might get parole some day. In one instance, offering murder one in place of capital murder (cop killing) so the defendant would avoid the death penalty.

 

In all those years of court, I saw only two defendants who actually were innocent of causing the death of another person (negligent homicide in both) go to trial. Both times, the prosecution lost. Every other defendant I saw go to trial was I saw was in fact guilty, and both sides decided to roll the dice with a jury. More often than not, the prosecution would win. But sometimes they really blew it.

 

Hands down the biggest reason a prosecutor refused to drop a case was because it was a high profile case. Once the reporters got involved, the prosecution stuck to its guns.

 

I can agree with that. Not saying it never happens, some DA are pushed screaming into trying cases on circumstantial evidence by families, the mayor, the governor and even the press. 90% sounds really high to me but I don't know where you live so I can't say for sure. The plea deals I've tried and seen where based on capital murder where the defended pleaded guilty in order to avoid the death penalty. But, none of them ever had the hope of getting out. It was still a sentence of life without the possibility of parole.

 

Anywhoo, we said we'd move on. First I really enjoy you and GiGi's comments - I like the fire in you gals! Secondly, since we're both team Gideon did it, what do you think about Angus' words "He knows when to stop?" Think it adds to the theory of how Gideon was able to stab Nathan just once and leave?

Quick point.

 

The DAs in both the Anthony case and the OJ case had piles of evidence against those clients. Those cases were lost not due to a lack of evidence but to due to how the defense attorney's portrayed their clients to the jury for example they made Casey Anthony a victim of childhood abuse and made it appear she was mentally slow to understand what happened to her baby. That she was used to compartmentalizing her life based on the abuse and carry on as if nothing happened. It's a lot more complicated than what was seen on tv - laws wise.

 

I think at this point instead of beating a dead horse we can agree to disagree. As a lawyer myself, I would never take the case against Gideon because unlike the Anthony & OJ case there is no real evidence against him.

Hi GiGi,

 

I'm not sure what thread I mentioned it in earlier but anywhoo, my theory is about Christopher Sr. knowing about the abuse of Gideon and paying people off to stay quiet and keep it away from his wife. In my way of thinking it makes sense if Christopher Sr. knew for Gideon to take away his buisness in the form of owning controlling interest in Vidal Records. I bet the thought that maybe Christopher Sr. would off himself at the lost of his buisness crossed Gideon's mind - as Gideon's father did at the lost of his wealth and reputation. I wonder how Christopher Sr. explains to people how his step-son has controlling interest? I even wonder if Elizabeth knows? I think the only reason Gideon didn't take it all and dismantle it was because of his mother, brother and sister. I think he still has love for them, especially Ireland. I'm hoping at some point that side of him will come out. What do you & others think?

 

I want to add that even if Christopher Sr. kept all of this away from Elizabeth, she's still a rat for not believing her son. I'm not at all violent, but I'd smack her.

Hi Everyone,

 

Wow, could this snapshot be about Eva and the new guy she was training towards the end of RIY? I can't remember his name, but I'm sure you guys know who I'm talking about. Every character fills a role and to bring in a new character that close to the end of the book just to give Eva something to do at work doesn't seem like something Ms. Day would do. Could he try and cause a little trouble between Eva and Gideon - another guy that wants Eva? And, if Eva and Gideon are still undercover, will Eva use this new guy as her "plus one" like Gideon uses Corinne? What do you guys think?

Hi GiGi,

 

I think you're theory regarding Monica is just as plausible as any other. In many ways you've now got me re-thinking things. But, do you think that perhaps Ms. Day was setting the stage for the one stab by Angus' words "He knows when to stop." That's such a strange thing to say when your boss is in the middle of a fight and his upset girlfriend ask you to break it up. The two people (Angus & Arnoldo) who know Gideon more than Eva does on a certain level all got into the limo and left him there, by himself? That part of the story has always made me curious of exactly what Angus could have meant. Especially because Angus is not just Gideon's driver he's also Gideon's bodyguard??? Shouldn't he, you know, guard his body - lol. What do you and others make of that statement?

 

Also, I  just wanted to through this in on the whole legal matter. The "case" against Gideon makes for great fiction reading, however, in reality it's just as GiGi said, no respectable DA would touch it and here's the simple truth why. DA's have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt. Defense lawyers don't have to prove anything, they only have to cast doubt - a much easier job.  Just asks the DAs in the Florida v. Anthony case.

Hi LNCronan,

I wonder how Gideon would react if he found out about Christopher Jr. touching his beloved Eva. Now that would be a situation where Gideon could kill! I wonder if there is someone else in Gideon’s past where Eva would need her “self defense†skills. What if Eva accidentally discovered who was abusing Gideon and the abuser felt threatened and Eva was forced to defend herself…that would be an interesting twist to the storyline?

So far Eva has done all of the digging into Gideon’s past. She has been successful in uncovering some interesting facts (although she doesn’t have enough information yet). I could see Eva and Carey teaming up to solve the Gideon’s past mystery. I don’t know how much longer Eva is going to patient and wait for Gideon to fill in the blanks. I think that Eva might start to go and look for answers herself and that might get her into serious trouble.

 

That's a good point, GiGi.  Although I don't think it will be Gideon's abuser (I still maintain Gideon has already done something to him) but I think Eva's going to come face to face with someone involved (Maybe Chris Sr. if my theory is correct about him) and it's going to be a point of danger for her in the book. A place where those "mad skills" will come into play. I don't think they were introduced just so she could throw Gideon off of her during one of his nightmares. I could be wrong of course, but I think we're going to see how strong Eva can really be. I think the snippet when she calls Gideon a caveman and tells him she can take care of herself ties in with this! Man, I cannot wait until June 4th. 

I don't care for "Ace" at all. My grandmother calls my grandfather that and no one wants to be reminded of their grandparents while reading these steamy books. LOL.

Hi LN Cronan,

 

Okay, this is an area where I can offer my expertise. Until formally charged, Gideon IS free to move about as he pleases. There is no legal law that says a "suspect" can be remanded to his home city by the police. Unless the police want to make an official arrest a person can't be held in that manner. And a person leaving the state is not evidence of guilt. After all, it's not like Gideon has been charged with anything and if the police don't have enough evidence to arrest, then they have nothing to keep him from moving about as he sees fit. It is not the police's job to ensure a conviction, only to offer whatever evidence they can come up with. It is for the courts and the jury to decide if the suspect is guilty or not. Police don't build cases, DA's & ADA's build cases - that's what they're trained to do. Detective are of useful benefit in hitting the streets and gathering witnesses or additional evidence, but cases do not go to trial solely based on what police have to offer. The state has the final say on picking the case up or dismissing it.

 

Secondly, the police don't know if Eva is a material witness or not and they haven't even questioned her to find out so there's no basis to follow her. There's not even mere speculation based on her answers because she hasn't given any.

 

There was a mob boss a few years back who had a girlfriend, the police didn't have any reason to bring her in so they weren't able to question her even though it was strongly believed she more than likely had information regarding her shady boyfriend. It's not just the police's word, they needed to provide evidence that the girlfriend had information crucial to the investigation - without that, she was as free as a bird. Hard to prove pillow-talk as evidence the mobster could have been working alone completely without the girlfriend's knowledge. This is the same case with Eva. Doesn't matter that she's the glue that binds - does she know whats sticking to her is the question and can the police prove she knows.

 

The cops can decide to arrest Gideon at any time at this point - in state or out of state or out of the country - they do it all the time. I've personally made a call to The New Scotland Yard and asked them to pick up a suspect from a hotel in London because we had enough evidence to charge him with murder. Once the paperwork was sent, they pick the man up and detained him until the U.S. Marshals went and picked him up. The suspect was there for a meeting he wasn't hiding or trying to elude arrest. The Marshals are used a lot in non federal cases to pick up suspects that the local police may not be able to locate or don't have the manpower to search without taking away from protecting the city. The FBI would hardly ever be used in a case like this especially when you consider states also have their own form of investigation bureaus such as New York State Bureau of Criminal Investigation (BCI). Who, like the US Marshals, are governed by the Attorney General and that's why the Marshals are used far more frequently than the FBI to apprehend state criminals.

 

Think about this...Even if Gideon and Eva were still openly seeing each other being photographed together having dinner going to parties - so what? Being someone's boyfriend is a big leap to killing the person who raped the woman years ago. They can't just speculate that because Gideon is Eva's boyfriend of a couple of months he would kill for her. As far as motive is concerned - no case has ever been considered a slam dunk conviction just because the suspect had motive and or means.

 

Let me give you another example of an acutal case. A man is found dead in his office - one shot to the head. His brother had the most to gain because he would get their shared buisness upon the brother's death to do with as he pleased. But, then it came out that the wife had a large insurance policy and she too had a lot to gain. Both the brother and the wife had a strong motive and the means. The man was shot with a gun that was kept on the family boat that either the wife or the brother could have gotten too. Neither had any witnesses to account for them at the time of the killing. Both said they were home alone. Both suspects lawyered up asap and refused to answer any further questions. What's a DA to do? He could have tried both the wife and the brother and run the risk of a hung jury in both cases because they were equally capable. Or he could have tried them together and said they teamed up to kill the victim. In the end he could do neither; there wasn't enough proof to say either or both did the deed. So for years no one was charged until a mistress popped up in a totally different case. This woman flew under the radar because she had nothing to gain from killing the victim because it was a fling and she was married to someone else and had been for years. This is what the cops surmised so they never turned her over for further investigation. Well, if they had, it would have come out that she killed him simply because she wanted too. That's what she finally confessed to the police and that's what she said in court. She's currently serving life without the possibility of parole. No one knows her motive and it sounds real cold to say - she just felt the need, but sometimes that's the way it goes.

 

Eva will never know for a fact if Gideon killed Nathan or not. The best she can do is take his word for it if he admits to her he did. She did not see him actually put the knife in Nathan's chest therefore it could be argued by a very savvy lawyer it's hearsay which the judge would have to agree to what's called a hearsay exception for her testimony to be admissable. If this were to happen, the DA would most certainly go after her credibility and this is where things could get tricky for both Eva and Gideon.

LN Cronan,

 

Do you believe the cops would be so stupid as to not realize Gideon only broke-up with Eva to try to cover up his involvment? I mean like that's never been done before. This is old skool crime novel stuff to add drama to the novel and not really a "real" police investigation. There are way too many holes and outright would never happens to take this seriously. Cops don't have the power to trail people just based on mere suspicion. Police officers have to convince the Chief they have enough evidence to spend man hours following Gideon & Eva around. They have zero evidence on Eva to follow her around. Gideon on the other hand they could justify until challenged by the Mayor, which is usually what rich people get their lawyers to do - make a call to the mayor's office and demand their client either be arrested on left alone. At which case the police either have to anty up or kick rocks.

 

If the cops really wanted to arrest Gideon they could based on the theory that Gideon killed Nathan to protect Eva. Let Gideon and his lawyer try to convince a court that he didn't. It's not a cop's job to try and cover all aspects of a case only to bring to justice the "most likely of suspects" that's why people like say Casey Anthony walk because the cops had enough to arrest her but not enough evidence to convict her - she was the most likely of all people to have committed the crime - just as Det. Graves has surmised about Gideon, but it's possible for Gideon and his high dollar lawyers to convince the jury he's not guilty because he and Eva broke up - he had no motive - a jury would probably be more likely to buy that excuse than the cops.

 

On the other hand, an experienced DA would tear both Eva & Corrine apart on the stand and Monica for that matter. The whole case would be out in the open, something I think would push Gideon to confess if it would protect Eva. A smart DA would see that these people are willing to go along way to cover things up - no one would want a public trial with the press stalking your every move and your face being on the cover of the NY Times everyday and TV camera crews - "Billionaire kills Socialites' Rapist Step-Brother" film at eleven.

 

The DA's opening statement could very well be Gideon Cross killed Nathan to protect his girlfriend Eva Tramell... The only person who is saying they aren't a couple is Gideon and Det. Graves claims she was an eye witness to when that event happened - after Nathan's murder when he was on the phone at the jail with Eva. She wouldn't need Eva's information to testify to that.  And Nathan was trying to blackmail Gideon that's another motive. The fire at his hotel at the same time as Nathan was being murdered is opportunity even if a few people saw him they could not account for him every minute which pokes holes in his no opportunity defense.

 

The fourth amendment gives people the expectation of reasonable privacy - meaning yes they could follow Gideon around the city in public places without a warrant because there is no expectation of privacy when a person is out in public. They could not stand outside of his door and try to listen to conversations taking place inside his home, office, or hotel room without a warrant issued by a judge. And for that they would need to show probable cause of a crime.

 

This is not a case that the FBI would be brought into either. If the police couldn't locate Gideon they would call the U.S. Marshals to find him and bring him in and this is by authority of the Attorney General. But, since Gideon has not been charged with a crime he is free to move about as he pleases. Police have not seized his passport - which would require a warrant and that goes back to showing probable cause of a crime - which if Det. Graves has the information she claims she does, she could show probable cause. So "if" the police told him to stick around they have no real basis of saying that other than to try to put pressure on him. If Gideon needed to go to Las Vegas to take care of buisness he could do so without having to notify anyone. He's a free man at the moment. Until the police arrest him and then they would have to prove he's a flight risk and for the judge to set bond either very high or no bond at all and take away his passport.  

 

So, I think in EWY the police are either going to have to arrest him of f-off because at some point it becomes police harassment to continue to investigate him with no real reason towards arrest.

 

Also, Eva and Gideon were still communicating by phone. All the cops need is a subpoena to get their phone records to show they were still in communication with one another and the cops did find him having a "family" dinner at Eva's house the night they went to inform her of Nathan's death. That's a lot to try and sell to jury that "they" were "broken up." I wouldn't buy it and neither would the cops.

 

Also think and hope the whole police thing goes away quickly. I think it was only used to show how far Gideon would go for Eva. It's been foreshadowed since BTY when Gideon tells Eva he would do anything for her, kill for her even. So, it's an old trick of the theatre that says when you bring a gun on stage, its got to go off. Well it did and now we get to see the lovers jump another hurdle in their quest for a happy life together. Compelling story-telling at its best - take your characters and put them in difficult situations and have them work their way out while bonding over the experience. Ahh and then they lived Happily Ever After. I can't wait!

This is a really old song from the early 70's by Walter Egan my parents always dance to on their wedding anniversary. It's called "Magnet And Steel" If you're not familar with it, some of the lyrics are:

 

...you're so close now I can't let you go and I can't let go.

With you I'm not shy, to show the way I feel.

With you I might try, my secrets to reveal.

For you are a magnet and I am steel.

 

Another one is Paul McCartney's "Baby I'm Amazed" And Rihanna's "Stay"

I think Trey & Magdalene are at a tie. I say this because of the following:

 

          They are both desperate for the love and affection of two people who are involved with others.

 

          They both keep putting themselves out there for these people no matter how bad they get hurt.

 

          They are both deluded in thinking some big change is going to happen within the objects of their affections that will lead them to having a happily ever after. Examples - Cary becoming solely gay. Gideon recognizing Madalene is the one he's wanted all this time.

 

          They both have lost their self-worth chasing after people who will never be what they want them to be.

 

          They both are willing to settle for less if they have to to have Cary & Gideon.

 

          They both have tunnel vision on unrealistic goals without any concern for their dignity.

 

          They both have exposed how desperate they are to Eva - I think as a last ditch effort that maybe she would reveal this to Gideon & Cary and they would feel bad and coming running into Trey & Magdalene's arms.

 

          They're both just downright pathetic and need to get their own lives and their own men.

Okay GiGi,

 

Here goes - I agree with you that Gideon could still be using the same coping skills he learned as a child, very plausible. I also agree Eva's love and Gideon's love for her is what is motivating him to change, become a better man. But here's where I have a slightly different thought and you know more about this than I do and could help me understand if it isn't possible. Could Gideon be both a sociopath and a psychopath? Having moments of frantic behavior and moments of total control? Could that be a split in his personality? Not like full blown dissociative personality disorder but another "coping skill" that would have only developed from being repeatedly abused as a child?

 

I think about Gideon's believe that he's a dominate - this isn't always true. Examples: Eva topped him in the limo (he freaked out, but she did). Corinne asked him to marry her (that's a woman taking charge of the situation). I think Gideon needs to believe he is a dominate because he was forced to be submissive to his abuser. I don't think he really understands what it is to be a true dominate and this is what causes his behavior to be all over the place at times. When he told Eva they were discovering who he is together, I believe that to be the real truth. I don't think Gideon ever really formed his own identity because of the abuse. I don't think he learned how to love or be loved. I think that's why he gives off slight moments of being a narcissist, sociopath, psychopath, loving, child like, and powerful because nothing is truly fully developed.

 

And, I think that's why readers see him in different views so much because he's a complicated mix of a little bit of everything. Being abuse at an age when children are discovering who they are must have affected his ability to become his own man and thus he has become whatever he needs to be to survive. Gideon points this out himself on a regular basis every time Eva mentions that someone's got a crush or something on him. His first words are always "what does she know about me?" A better question is, what does he know about himself. I think his deep love for Eva is he wants to be the man he sees in her eyes but he doesn't know how to get there yet and is afraid he'll never get the chance because of his past possibily scarring her off. What say ye Ladies?

So here's my theory about who the "real" Christopher Vidal Sr. is .....

 

A man who got Elizabeth Vidal, a stunning woman, as a trophy wife for a bargain. He's rich. She's the recently widowed woman of a serious financial crook turned suicide, who would have left her penniless and with a young child. Vidal could have cared less about the son -- he wanted the mother. As soon as he could, he begot his own child on her, who turned out to be a boy that became Vidal's namesake. Gideon would have been shunted even further aside. It was only when Gideon became a bad influence on Vidal's son/heir and a problem for the pending arrival of Vidal's daughter, that Vidal even bothered to get Gideon help. Then Gideon got sexually abused, and Vidal used his money to cover up the crime.

I agree! That's exactly what I said last week in the Vidal Sr. thread. I really think this is who Vidal Sr. is at the truth of it all.

Wow GiGi,

 

You have given me a lot to think about. I really want to think about some points you mentioned that I hadn't thought about before so let me get back to you later today with a response!

Dr. Lucas' opinion of Gideon is seriously colored by what Gideon did to him in order to seek revenge for whatever it had been to make Gideon hate Lucas. Seduce Lucas' wife of 20 years. Manipulate her into falling in love with him. Then break her heart and send her back to her husband. Not Gideon's finest moment. And afterward, he felt a sense of remorse he made Anne Lucas collateral damage.

 

Just because he did something to one woman that a narcissist would do, doesn't make him one -- make him a man who goes around deliberately hurting every woman he gets involved with. Any more than his killing one man in cold blood makes him a serial killer.

 

But what Gideon did do to Anne Lucas does show to me how deep the damage to Gideon is, and how little he has dealt with it yet. Underneath that man who can be stone-cold at times is an angry child, and underneath that angry child is an incredibly hurt little boy. (Crying for him now.) Also, what he did to Anne Lucas raises a huge red flag to me about just how deep his anger at Dr. Lucas is. What did that man do as a young pediatrician to so hurt Gideon and his connection to his own family that years later, Gideon sought to destroy Lucas' family (i.e. his marriage.) Sylvia has said Lucas is NOT the sexual abuser. But whatever Lucas was, it's gotta be dark.

 

Maybe in retaliation, Lucas has been going around trying to poison the mind of every one of Gideon's women he can get near socially. I'll bet Lucas' approaching Eva at that dinner isn't the first time Lucas has done that. he's probably tried it on other women Gideon has escorted socially to these big society charity events.

 

Dr. Lucas' opinion isn't colored by anything other than the truth of Gideon's own actions. We don't know if Gideon treated other women like he did Anne or not and feeling remorse means little after the fact when you're still treating the man who's wife you messed up like crap. Obviously screwing Dr. Lucas' wife wasn't enough for Gideon to let it go and reason he tried to exact revenge and it backfired.  Even Eva recognized that Gideon would do it again - no remorse in that. My red flag goes up when a person makes themselves the victim of their own wrong doings i.e. and I paraphrase here - "Dr. Lucas alienated me from my family" and "I couldn't get clean after I messed up Anne's head." Poor baby, imagine how dirty that woman must have felt. And..."I realized I couldn't sleep overnight with Corinne" yet he led (by not saying anything) her on for two years and I'm pretty sure he's leading her on now. And he couldn't even bring himself to break it off with her after his ah-hah moment - that's just plain old messed up. He may not be telling her he loves her now and they're going to be together, but he's allowing her to think something that can't be true - otherwise she wouldn't spend so much time with him. She is aware of his ways and probably thinks Gideon is just being his closed off self like in the past. That's his best weapon with these women - silence - and he knows it.   

 

And yes it's possible that Corinne could be making up all kinds of delusions in her head and not hearing Gideon, but a man who made himself into a zillonaire at the age of 28 doesn't see this and know that he's creating a bigger problem for himself and Eva. If Corinne is that delusional what's to keep her from being dangerous - fatal attraction anyone?

 

I still stand in the camp that Gideon's moral compass only started spinning in the right direction when he fell in love with Eva. Don't get me wrong, I love Gideon and very much want him and Eva to have a happy ending - they both deserve it. I'm just saying that I think there is a lot of dark stuff that Gideon's gotta own up to and work through before they can truly be happy.  

 

And killing one person may not make you a serial killer, but do we really want to start quantifying murderers by number of kills? That's like saying a person is less of a murderer because he used a knife instead of a gun. A killer is a killer. And anyone who does it once is capable of doing it again - it's only a matter of their choice.

Just throwing out this far reaching bit of speculation ---- but what if Gideon is everything Dr. Lucas said he is - at least at the moment. What if it's Eva's love and the love he feels for her that's helping him to change. After all Gideon has never dealt with his abuse. He may have certain ways that even he is not aware of due to being abused and his mother pretty much turning her back on him. Maybe he's aware of some of his "dark ways" and is afraid Eva would leave him if she knew just how messed up he is. He's always questioning just how much Eva can know about him before she takes off running.

 

Maybe he's been an antihero until he met Eva and is struggling to let go of what has pretty muched worked for him until he met Eva. He hasn't been all that great to her - they've had moments and it's obvious that he cares deeply for her. But, she has to practically be out the door before he comes clean with her everytime. I think there's a lot of dark stuff to be discovered about Gideon before he and Eva have their happy ending in the light.

GiGi,

 

That is horrible the way you were treated for doing your job. I stand and applaude your conviction to stand by your ethics. It had to be heartbreaking to not get the support you needed from you co-workers.

 

I may be slightly defensive on this subject because when I was nine a girl a couple of years younger than myself was taken out of her parents home for being physically abuse - beatings with hangers and wires and locking her in the closet all came out later. But, after only six months of the mother going to classes - not the father - who was just as responsible for abusing the little girl, she was placed back into the home. Several weeks later they found her dead in the basement and the parents nowhere to be found. It wasn't until some 15 years later they caught the mother, the father had od' on Meth. I didn't fullly understand the scope of this until years later and when I hear about children being abused it puts me on edge - I guess even fictional children. But, I'm good now. And, I'm sorry you went through what you did, but happy that you kicked their arse in court!

 

Now, who wants to talk about how pathetic Magdalene is (on the female side) vs Trey (on the male side)?

I understand what you're saying GiGi and I completely agree. Elizabeth should have been able to look into her child's eyes and know that he was telling the truth without having any other proof. She's still wrong and nothing will change that. I'm only throwing out another speculation as to how the events might have gone down that appear to make sense. It's not a right or wrong argument just how things may have happen. I think the one thing we all agree on is that however it happened it was wrong. As we've all said before, Elizabeth Vidal is never ever going to get mother of the year. But, this goes back to themes I'm starting to see in these books of woman being manipulated and over protected by the men who love them and children suffering as a result of that. Eva flew under Monica's radar for four years without Monica ever noticing her little girl was being horribly abused - HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN? Even before my children were able to talk I could tell something was wrong - and I think lots of mom's and dad's have that bond with their children, it's how we protect them.

 

So here you have both Monica & Elizabeth being so wrapped up in themselves their children's suffering goes un-noticed. Yes, I think it's possible that Elizabeth just couldn't handle another issue and choose - with the manipulation of her husband to gaze off Gideon's allegations of abuse and just see her son as being disturbed. Gideon's father's suicide predisposition her to believe her son has the potential to have problems. Elizabeth is just a beautiful trophy wife what does she know other than what she's being told by the doctors. Imagine if those doctors where telling her the same things Dr. Lucas told Eva about Gideon being a liar and a manipulator and a sociopath - that would be a lot for her to handle in her "fragile" state. I think it was just easier for her to put it all into a box and contain it and let her husband deal with it. They say love of money is the root of all evil and I believe that carrys over into the fictional world as well. Those doctors may have sold a poor child out for money and all it could buy and the places it could take them. I've lived in third world countries and seen children sold for far less.

 

And if your comment about knowing someone in the healthcare profession who doesn't put the patient first or follow proper protocol is directed towards me -  the answer is no. I don't know anyone personally who would do that. But, I only need to turn on the news to see it or travel to a third world country to witness it. Just like lots of other professions there are people in the health and mental healthcare who are as dirty as it gets. It's a horrible thing and if it were my child I'd be in prison over a trusted member of the healthcare profession failing my child on purpose - but it happens.

 

And, this is a book and so it's gonna be full of drama - some of it not so pretty as we've already read. It may get worst before it gets better. And I think that RIY was the dark before the storm. I think Gideon's story is gonna have some of us in tears when all is said and done and angry - which is what good books do. I can't wait to see how Sylvia plays it out.

Hey GiGi,

 

That same arguement could be made for why didn't they send Gideon away in the first place? If my theory is correct and I don't know that it is, Elizabeth loved him and wouldn't want him to feel abandoned again, especially since he was already abandoned by his dad when he killed himself. I think she would have been adament to keep him close to her especially if all of his problems were being linked back to his dad's suicide. She could have been beside herself thinking that he was next. I think Elizabeth's "mother's guilt" over her son losing his father in such a traumatic way probably did have her paying more attention to Gideon than Sr. or Jr. and that's part of why Jr. hates Gideon. I think Elizabeth may have made herself sick with worry over Gideon and was probably so beaten down by the time he told her about the abuse she was easily convinced that her son was a very disturbed child. Remember at that time Elizabeth was under the care of a therapist herself.  

 

As for Angus, I don't think he knew about the abuse, if at all, until towards the end. And along that line of thought I believe he was the one who helped Gideon to stop it. I mean, look at it this way - (Yes, I know and agree Angus should have picked up the phone and called the police) but, lets not forget that kids (in some cases) get returned to their abusers after some counseling and classes. I've seen my mother cry her eyes out over a child being return to an abusive home. Since there were doctors saying there wasn't any physical proof, Angus probably figured he and Gideon would end up on the losing side of contacting the police - he would lose his job and not be able to see Gideon and help him. I say Angus made the decision - for better or worst to take matters into his own hands (wow kind of reminds you of Gideon with Nathan) and formulated a plan on how to stop the abuse and rid Gideon of the abuser. Something happened to that person just from hearing Gideon's dreams and his attempts to rape Eva in her sleep says he used some kind of force against his abuser.

 

All I'm saying is that I think Angus may have trained Gideon to protect himself from his abuser and maybe it went to far (since Gideon was already an angry kid) because in Gideon's dreams it sounds like Gideon rapes his rapist - the whole the abused becomes the abuser and I think it was Angus who stopped him from becoming that kind of man - and that's how he knew Gideon knew when to stop, because he trained him how to know when he was out of control. Which is also how Gideon was able to stop before beating the life out of Brett and then later stop before beating Nathan silly in his office and pull off the one stab to Nathan's heart; he's a man fully in control of his anger and knows when to stop.

 

I don't know. Just my little $.02.

As much as I hate to give any kind of credit to Elizabeth Vidal but just for the sake of discussion, let's say Vidal Sr. paid off the doctors without Elizabeth's knowledge. She still should have believed her son, but what if Vidal Sr. was trying to protect Elizabeth from anymore stress and maybe even the possibility of losing Ireland (Vidal's kid). Vidal Sr. may hate Gideon for all we know and may have hated him from day one. Maybe he could have cared less what was happening to Gideon just as long as it didn't affect his wife and their marriage.

 

That would be so in-line with the theme of men using money and status to protect the women they love. Gideon does it with Eva by keeping her in the dark about Nathan and then killing him. Stanton does it with Monica by keeping her in a world of dresses and jewels and every other rich man Monica married did the same thing. So why wouldn't Vidal Sr. use his money and power to protect his wife from further scandal after her 1st husband commits suicide and now the son has been raped. I can see him going a long way to keep that from both Elizabeth & the public maybe even to the tune of Vidal Recorders being in hock (I would think it would take a lot of money to get two doctors to cover up a child being abused) and that's how Gideon was able to gain controlling interest.

 

I bet if that's true, Gideon may or may not be aware of the part Vidal Sr. played in the cover up. Or he may have figured it out and was able to buy back the shares of Vidal Records and hold it over Vidal Sr. head. He probably never told his mother about Vidal Sr. involvement because she wouldn't have believed it. She didn't believe him about the rape why would she believe her husband would cover it up. Or, maybe Gideon blackmailed Vidal Sr. into giving him controlling interest into his family buisness or else he would tell his mother????  Rich people are a real kick in the head -lol.

That's where I run into a loop of questions also GiGi. From what we've read so far it seems everyone stopped communicating as soon as Nathan showed up in NY. Gideon and Stanton had spoken about him before so why wouldn't they compare notes when he actually showed up? I'm just waiting for the detective to show back up and say she was mistaken and they actually found a stab wound to Nathan's chest - Gideon...a gun shot wound to the head - Stanton...and poison in his tea - Monica then it would be a cross between a nice game of Clue and an Agatha Christie novel (I'm kidding).

 

It kind of makes me think both Gideon and Stanton/Monica had their own seperate plan to kill Nathan and in my opinion, Gideon got to him first. When Monica says "Stanton's mind doesn't work that way" gave me the feeling she was absently suggesting her's does. She may have come up with a plan to kill Nathan and she and Stanton were in the middle of putting it together. If that is truly the case then the silence between Gideon's camp and Monica/Stanton's camp makes sense; one wouldn't want the other to be able to implicate them in Nathan's murder.

 

After thinking about it I'm guessing they didn't tell Cary that Nathan was in town because I believe out of all of them; he woud have told Eva. He's just as protective of her but he also was part of her therapy group and I think has a better understanding than anyone else of what Eva is capable of handling. I think he would have told Eva and then come up with a plan to get rid of Nathan, even if it meant just paying him off. Gideon, Monica & Stanton should feel guilty that they left him out there vulnerable. They probably didn't think Nathan would go after Cary, but he did - oops.

AMC wrote: "Wow and Wow, lady! Great points!"  LN Cronan wrote: "Fantastic observations, mrsmajessick, so much so I promoted the post to article status on the site."

 

Thank you so much Ladies. I can't tell you how much fun it is to discuss this with all of you. I learn something new every time and of course it leads me to more questions, but I love it. Such a great way to make the wait time pass.

 

Okay, so back to RIY. I am also really curious about Angus' statement to Eva "He knows when to stop." That has a really knowing and a bit ominous feeling to it. This isn't just a thought or a feeling he had, this is something he knows because he would have never left Gideon there if he believed otherwise. I wonder if Angus was instrumental in Gideon getting revenge against his abuser - if in fact he did? I wonder if it was Angus who may have taught him how to fight back in those early days and maybe at that time (from the sounds of Gideon's dreams) he took it to far and Angus showed him how to control and contain his anger.

 

I don't think Angus would have been able to do anything directly himself because he would have more than likely lost his job (I'm sure Elizabeth would have had a fit if she thought he was indulging Gideon in what she considered to be made up stories) so maybe he did the next best thing and taught the child Gideon how to stop the abuse and defend himself. Gideon takes MMA training with his personal trainer now, but that may be to stay up on his' skills.

 

The abuse had to end some way and I'm willing to bet Angus had something to do with helping Gideon to end it. What do you ladies think?

Hello GiGi, LN Cronan & jo_mama,

 

I still come back to the possibility that Nathan ended up in NY after seeing a gossip rag of Eva & Gideon. If Eva's dad could hear about it in California than I'm sure Nathan heard about it wherever he was. I find it suspect that Nathan wanted to leave the country with the money he was hoping to get from Gideon and/or Stanton? I think he was in trouble and was looking to get away quickly. I think he is a sicko who continued to rape women long after Eva was gone - and (this makes my stomach turn) maybe little girls. I think it may come out in EWY that he was a suspect in several other rapes and the cops were getting close. We have no reason to believe he would stop with Eva.

 

I think Nathan became enrage when he saw Eva living a good life and happy and from his thinking he probably assumed she was doing it with his father's money. I think he intended to get money from who ever was willing to give it Gideon/Stanton, then kill Eva and fleed the country.

 

I don't think Gideon was trailing Nathan until after the attack on Cary. I think he was keeping a close eye on Eva, but I think the night he was meeting with his security he was putting them on alert to watch Nathan and keep an even closer eye on Eva. After all, if Gideon's plan to kill Nathan was to be successful he would need to know where Nathan is. Imagine him showing up at Nathan's hotel with knife in hand and Nathan is out getting a hot dog at a street vendor - talk about a buzz kill -lol.

 

As for Corinne, come on, no woman is going to spend time with a man she wants, knowing he has a girlfriend and not ask if he and his girlfriend are having problems, since he's now spending so much time with her. Corinne would want to know if her plan was working. She would want to "be there" for Gideon during his heartbreak. She would milk that role for all it's worth. It makes no sense to me that they wouldn't have had some kind of conversation regarding the status of his relationship with Eva. Even if it were a short one something along the lines of "we're on a break, but I just want to be friends with you." I'm not so sure if Gideon is as honest as others think. I don't think he lies out right, but lying through omission is just as bad. Gideon withholds a lot, he is the king of withholding and in keeping secrets they become lies.

 

Bare with me here, is it not a lie the pretense of Gideon getting back together with Corinne? And since he didn't tell Eva it was fake knowing that she believes something was happening between those two, and not just that, but the woman was heart broken and he still didn't say, "look angel it's all a ruse." All he said was "trust me" and "be patient" - that's lying by omission and he's wrong for that. And, he most certainly lied to Eva every time she begged him to talk to her about what was going on by his dismissive attitude or keeping his mouth closed. Was he ever going to tell her about Nathan? Really the only time I see Gideon being upfront and honest with Eva is when she gives him no choice. For example his F-pad had she not discovered the toys I doubt he would have told her that's where he takes "dates." Then there's the ex-fiance, once again Eva had to confront him about it and then he told the truth. He introduced Corinne as an "old friend" big difference. Nor did he tell Eva he left the advocacy dinner to pick up Corinne until she confronted him with that information. Then when Eva was on the phone with him and she asked him if Nathan showed him pictures of her and he admitted it, but only after she demanded an answer. He lied to her about meeting her at Dr. Petersen. He knew he would be off killing Nathan and had no intention of meeting her at the doctor's office, he wanted her to go so she would have an alibi for the evening. He lied to her about beathing Nathan up in his office when he said, "I had to take a late meeting" and refusing to explain further. So in that sense, Gideon is a little manipulative. Eva has to confront him everytime to get the truth. And sometime she has to repeatedly confront him and still get nothing - his dreams, his shares in Vidal Records, his problems with his family, his rift with Dr. Lucas - he never told Eva outright how it started, just what he did to get revenge on the doctor.

 

If I had to confront my husband at every turn to get him to tell me the truth or even talk to me about what is happening in his life we would have been long divorced. Sorry I love the "ideal" of Gideon but if I saw him in real life knowing what I know about him - I'd run as fast as my Nike's could go in the opposite direction. I understand he has issues and that keeps him closed off, but he'll never overcome those issues if he chooses to stay tight lipped. I hope he trust Eva enough in EWY to open the flood gates and deal with himself with her support.

You know when all is said and done, Eva owes Gideon an old fashion Arse kicking. I mean come on, treating her like a hysterical, bubble-headed blond who can't handle the truth of Nathan being back in the picture is insulting. I know he was trying to protect her, but everyone seems to forget it was Eva that went through the abuse and she survived it - maybe she would have liked to have had some say in what happen to Nathan. Gideon's lack of trust in her as a strong woman is going to be a real problem for them in the future because Eva is strong & smart. I love the last snippet when she calls him a "caveman" that was spot on, happy for her.

 

As for Corinne, I keep wondering what Gideon said to her about his sudden interest in taking her to dinner and parties instead of Eva. Corinne would have had to ask why he wasn't taking Eva? I mean the last time Corinne seen Gideon he was chasing after Eva out the door. I can't see Gideon confiding in Corinne, but he couldn't have just called her up and said "Let's start hanging out - a lot."

 

I'm starting to think that Gideon may have even called Corinne to show up at the Crossfire looking all mused up that day Eva saw her. We don't know what time Nathan showed up and Gideon may have even put his plan into motion that quickly - this is a man who remembers all of Eva's makeup products by brand and shades - that gives him super powers in my book. That would play along with Corinne taking so long to open the door - keeping the plan going of making Eva think there was something more going on between her and Gideon.  Corrine might have even called Gideon while Eva was waiting. But, if all that is true how much of what Gideon was planning to do to Nathan did he tell Corinne? Surely not that he intended to kill him. But, he had to tell her something???

ShazScott1980 I also thought about the possibility of Nathan having been in prison. But, right before he shows up no one seems to know where he is. Somewhere, Eva says something to the effect of him being out there breathing the same air. And, when Gideon goes to see Stanton to find out what's been done to keep all this under wraps there's no mention of where Nathan is presently. Gideon asks Eva if Nathan's ever shown up and she says no. I got the feeling from this that no one knew where he was and that meant he wasn't in prison.

 

When Eva says she hasn't seen Nathan in eight years "in a courtroom" that doesn't surprise me, the wheels of justice move slow and it sometimes takes several years before the defendant has a court hearing. He was probably in juvey jail then and may have been sentenced to stay there until he turned 18. Which makes me wonder where has he been all this time? No doubt the publicity surrounding Eva & Gideon is what brought him out wherever he was holed up.

 

But, it still doesn't make sense to me why Nathan wouldn't just go after Eva - he's gotta know that she walked away with a big chunk of his father's money. Seems like he would have loved to torture her some more and get what would have been his inheritance if he wasn't such a sicko jerk. Nathan has no way of knowing how deep Gideon's love for Eva is - hello - they've only been together for two weeks and they were seperated for four days during that time. What makes him think Gideon would pay him millions of dollars to protect Eva's secret - afterall it really has nothing to do with him. And if it came out, well he'd just look like a man who dated a rape survivor - what's the problem with that. He says in his own speech everyone is either the victim or knows someone who's been molested or raped.

 

Unless Nathan is really dumb, he had to know going to a short term boyfriend wasn't going to be a successful venture and he got beat up for it. HA.