Rogue

Hi Gigi, I guess I don't think Deanna is good enough for him, she has a vindictive streak that one, how about Megumi? I can see what you mean about Brett having a laugh at Eva's expense and I can understand why she felt that way. I just wanted to explain why I don't think I he was doing it to laugh at her or be unkind in any way... I have grown up in a big but very close crowd of friends, on average there is at least 20 of us out every weekend, with a fairly even divide male/female. We generally get together at someone's house and the night always begins the same way... all the girls in one room and the boys in another. In both rooms sex is a common topic but the difference in which girls and boys are prepared to talk about it even amongst their closest friends has always fascinated me. I should explain that I am a total tomboy and always end up in with the boys long before the crowd starts to mix, so I have been privy to many a boy chat about sex. When one of the guys meets someone new, I can tell by their face if they really like her or not but his words - its all about the sex. Because guys don't admit to romantic feelings or mushy stuff in front of other guys unless they know the girl feels the same way. What I mean is, my boyfriend and I have been together for 9 years. Everyone in our crowd of friends respects our relationship and they dont give him hassle for not reducing our sex life into some silly joke for his mates. I know he still talks about us sometimes, just as I do with the girls - but its in a different way than the singles. Before Eva overheard Brett talking about her, she had tried to make the sex the best Brett had ever had. If it was indeed the best sex he'd ever had, every guy I know would have been quite quick to tell his mates, how awesome it was. This is his way of telling the guys he really likes this girl without looking like a p***y - which is ridiculous but totally true. Do you get what I mean? I thunk Brett could have been more respectful and he definitely should have made sure Eva was out of ear shot but he was just a boy being a boy. I mean the guys I spend time with are hitting 30 and while they have matured significantly over the last 10-15 years that I've known them, they still talk sex with their mates - everyone does .

Hi Gigi, I agree and I can understand why she would be embarrassed by the video. But I don't think that was Brett's intention when he made it. He has no way of knowing that Eva is ashamed or embarrassed by that part of her past - she's never told him. My point is though that I think Brett has matured and wants more than just sex this time. Ok he made a couple of crude and inappropriate comments but that was hardly all he said. He said he wanted to make a proper go of things with Eva and even suggested how they might make it work given that they live in different cities and he's on tour. I think this shows that he has spent quite a lot of time thinking about what went wrong before and how to correct those mistakes this time. That sex isn't all he wants this time, though I don't believe it was all he ever wanted before. Do you see where I'm coming from?

Totally agree with you here Nrock. Personally, I think Eva (and maybe Gideon) are totally to blame for the whole Brett situation. IMO he has done absolutely nothing wrong. All he's doing is pursuing a woman he lost a long time ago and has wanted back ever since. People's main complaints about him are: 1. Him being overly familiar and a bit crude to Eva too quickly. However every one is quite forgiving of Gideon who did the same thing and with less right IMO. 2. The Golden video - it was embarrassing and uncomfortable for Eva. However it was just a visual representation of the song, as many music videos are. It's not like he filled it with sex scenes & they had nothing to do with anything. The song describes their relationship which was mainly about sex, and Eva had no problem with the song, in fact I think she was flattered by it.

Hi Julie, No apology necessary. I enjoy the debate here about controversial characters more than anything. And I apologise if I seemed a little exasperated, I think we are all so emotionally invested in these characters its easy to get worked up when debating your point! Hope you have a great day

Remember the conversation they had the day they went for lunch - it was like they were talking about completely different people. They never communicated properly back then and so neither of them had any idea of what the other was thinking. Eva's insecurity made her think she was just another groupie whereas Brett thought they had something deeper going on. Not to mention the lyrics of the song. Brett felt like she was keeping him at a distance, he was allowed to know her body but not her heart. Whereas the way Eva recalls it, she desperately wanted to be his girlfriend and thought she made it quite obvious but he wasn't interested. Serious communication issues....

But we can't know for sure what happened when Eva wasn't there. She assumed he would other girls when she wasn't around but that could be her insecurity talking - she wasn't there, she doesn't know what he was doing. He considered them to be an item - he said they were together for 6 months and that that was the longest relationship he'd ever had... I'm not saying he didn't other girls, all I'm saying is, we assume that because Eva assumed it. That's also a massive part of Eva's confusion at this point in the book. She always assumed she was nothing more than a convenient for Brett, but she's now starting to realise that she might have been wrong - based on the song he wrote about how he felt, and his actions recently...

I don't think he has anything to do with the sex tape either. His goal right now is to get Eva back, nothing could jeopardise that worse than releasing a sex tape. What woman sees a sex tape of herself and thinks yea that was hot, I must hook up with him again?!? No one! ! And what sane man thinks that that is a likely reaction to his releasing a sex tape?! While he might think it would drive a wedge between her and Gideon, he could never believe it would bring her back to him!! Brett's talking about how they can make a relationship work. I genuinely think that's what he wants. He talks about when the tour ends and coming to stay with Eva for the holidays... he seems to me to be making a real effort. Its not just all crude come on lines. And IMO, Brett had far more right to get crude and overly familiar too quickly than Gideon ever did. At least they had some sort of previous relationship!! If a total stranger walked up to me and said what Gideon said to me, I'd have slapped him (at the very least) An ex lover however, I wouldn't slap him. I might not be thrilled but I would take it much better from an ex than from a stranger!!

Totally agree with you here. If Brett never had feelings for Eva why did he write the song Golden? He released that song before he knew where Eva was / what she was doing / who she was dating. But he as much as said that he was hoping it would bring Eva back to him. That is not someone who is all about the chase. That is the actions of someone who had feelings for someone and missed them greatly when they were gone. Eva's insecurities are why she thought Brett never had feelings for her. Though I'm sure his actions didn't help matters. They were both kids and poor at expressing their feelings and what was going on in their heads. IMO Brett has been searching for Eva for a long time and that is why he is not taking no for an answer. He's been thinking about and missing her for 4 years and he given the mixed signals she's been sending, you can't really blame the guy for not giving up so easily. She walked away once, he doesn't want that to happen again.

It's weird because I can't decide whose side I am on on the job argument. I get why Eva wants to stand on her own 2 feet and accomplish things on her own. But at the same time its insane that she work for someone else given the size of Gideon's empire!! What does everyone think is going to happen with this? My gut is telling me that Eva will end up running both the foundation she sets up and the Crossroads foundation. That would be a good compromise... what do you think?

I agree. Though I can't quite figure out how Gideon could stop a company he doesn't own from hiring another company he doesn't own. But knowing Gideon he'll find a way! ! :)

Hi Julie, I'm not sure if Eva confronted Corinne that it would help any. Corinne's currently on the fast track to crazy. She's not acting rationally at the minute and if Eva were to confront her, there is no telling what she would do. But I don't thibk she would recognise that Gideon has chosen Eva and it's over. I think for Corinne to accept that fact it has to come from Gideon. Think about it, at which point would you give up... Eva telling you "he loves me." Gideon telling you "I love her. " With both Brett & Corinne, it has to come from the person they are pursuing. It's the only way they'll accept defeat.

When I read this bit about Eva and Brett my heart sank a little. I thought oh no she's going to cheat. But the more I think about it, I just don't think she will. As a reader I personally would lose a lot of respect for Eva if she were to cheat but more than that I think all of her reactions to cheating when her parents hooked up suggest it is not something she would do. I think Eva is enjoying the attention from Brett, something she desperately wanted all those years ago, and she's not stopping to think how much a continuing relationship with him will hurt Gideon. There is also probably a subconscious desire to punish him for the ongoing Corinne situation. I also don't think she's thinking about Brett's feelings while she continues to send him mixed signals - I'm not sure she consciously realises thats what she is doing. I think in SD Brett is going to come on too strong and Eva having the strength to say no (something she was never been able to say to Brett before) will be the self-confidence boost she needs to overcome her self esteem issues.

Hi guys, People keep saying that Brett must know about the sex tape as the Golden video was based on the footage available of Eva. If I remember correctly the Golden video acted out the lyrics, it was a visual representation of the song. The fact that there was sex tape available of these activities is because the song is a true story. Therefore I think we are being a bit quick to assume Brett knew about the sex tape or to say he must have because of the similarity between videos. The song came first, then the music video - a visual representation of the lyrics, as they often are, then a sex tape using real footage as the song is based in fact. That doesn't make Brett guilty of anything except writing a song and making a music video. An insensitive music video yes, but Eva didn't seem to have a problem witj the whole world knowing her business through the lyrics of the song..

Hi Gigi & Nrock, I totally get where you are coming from about the way Brett talks to Eva so intimately. However it is important to remember how Gideon spoke to Eva before they were in a relationship. Personally I think the way he spoke to her was just as bad, if not worse as he had no previous relationship of any kind with her, and he was just as forward and inappropriate. Off the top of my head - Eva was actually offended by the way Gideon spoke to her the first few times, even though it turned her on. She doesn't seem to be offended by Brett doing it, this may be an inappropriate response on her behalf, or it could be Gideon desensitised her to being spoken to in such a way. Or it could be she doesn't think its inappropriate because of their previous relationship... what do you think?

I agree, Nrock. We also need to remember that the video is a visualisation of the Golden lyrics. Eva never expressed to Brett or anyone that she was unhappy with the song Golden or how it portrayed her. And while I get the difference - an idea or a suggestion in a lyric compared to having it acted out for the world to see. It probably never even occurred to Brett that she wouldn't like the video. Was that nieve of him, yes but I don't think he made the video to hurt Eva, he was trying to remind her of the 'good times' same as the song was supposed to do. When he released Golden he was trying to get her back, even though he had no clue where she was or what she was doing. He was hoping she'd hear the song and turn up at a concert or get in touch. I think the video was just another extension of that. Brett doesnt understand that Eva is ashamed of her past both with him and in general. And why should he? He's not ashamed of any of it. And Eva has never told him anything to make him think she might be.

Hi Gigi, Yes I'm finally starting to feel better thank you. Hope you have a great day :)

Hi Gigi All good, thanks for a great debate! ! And yes to the plane ticket back to France! ! I'll even upgrade her to first class if she'll leave faster LOL

I can't find the original post but someone was wondering how Gideon would have proposed if Eva hadn't run off in to the sea. Every time I reread the book I feel like the conversation they had the morning before the Golden video event (sorry I cant remember the exact chapter) was him working up to a proposal. I think he would have done it before Eva went out with Brett that night if they had already had the 'Hugh' conversation. The crossfire conversation would have been the perfect lead in to a proposal IMO What do you all think?

And you, Gigi! I apologise if I seem a bit grumpy today, I was up all night with a stomach bug so I'm tired and cranky today. Have a great day :)

Hi Gigi, I do get what you mean. What I mean, is that I don't really see what Gideon can tell her that she doesn't already know. If what you are saying is true, that Corinne walked away because it had become clear Gideon couldn't open up to her / couldn't marry her. What more can he say? He's not going to tell her about his abuse, all he can really do is apologise for not being more honest with her at the time - which I totally agree he should do. However, I don't think Gideon sending her mixed messages for a couple of weeks is enough to make her mentally ill. Sure, it could have made her worse, but I think her mental illness stems from her inability / unwillingness to see the truth. She walked away because she realised Gideon didnt love her like she loved him, yet she's convinced herself that Gideon was pining for her all these years. She's convinced herself that she loves this man she doesn't really know, instead of opening her heart to the man she's with, who loves her, married her etc... she's convinced herself that JFG is indifferent to her, which is not something I get from him in the book. He clearly loves her, but he's a bit of a coward, or maybe he's sick and tired of living in the shadow of Gideon's memory! If that's the case Corinne's relationship / mental illness problems are of her own making and while I think Gideonn should apologise for not being more honest with Corinne all those years ago. I don't think he should continue to feel guilt for HER actions, since the end of their relationship 7 odd years ago. Do you see what I mean? Gideon can't tell her anything she doesn't already know - the problem is that she doesn't want to accept it. And that's her issue, not his.

Hi Gigi, I agree that the Drs would have a good idea of how many pills, Corinne took once they finished examining her. My point was the only time the number of pills is mentioned is when Gideon receives the initial phone call telling him Corinne is in the hospital. As we see the Dr make a report to the family while Eva and Gideon are at the hospital, I think it is fairly safe to assume that no-one knew (but Corinne) at the time of that call just how many pills were taken. At no time is Corinne's suicide attempt described as SERIOUS. Nor is there any mention of her losing consciousness. The only specifics we have about the actual attempt is that Corinne took some pills and she lost her baby because of this suicide attempt. Like you said we dont want fo confuse actual facts with thoughts and speculations. As for who found her, based on the other characters reactions to JFG, I find it difficult to believe any of them would have contacted him to inform him Corinne was in the hospital. They are all ignoring him and treating Gideon like the son-in-law!! Therefore I assume JFG was the one to find her. Complete speculation on my part but I can't figure out how else he would be there.

I had always thought that too. That Angus had caught Gideon's abuser and stopped the abuse. What doesn't make sense to me about that scenario though, is if Angus caught Gideon's abuser in the act surely he would have told the Vidals? It would be his job to do so and I don't see him letting the family continuing to believe Gideon was lying about the abuse even if he managed to scare Hugh off himself discreetly. And if Angus a trusted member of their security staff told the Vidals that he caught Hugh abusing Gideon, how can Elizabeth still be denying that it happened all these years later. If they hadn't believed Angus why would he still be working for them all those years later when Gideon had enough money to hire him away from them? I think Angus recognised that there was something wrong with Gideon, he may have even been aware of the accusations Gideon was making and believed them due to the changes in his behaviour. Im not convinced he had anything to do with the end of the abuse, but I think he started to teach Gideon some mixed martial arts and gave him a positive outlet for his anger and frustration, and this brought them closer.

Oh I totally agree that Gideon was guilty of sending Corinne mixed signals. But I think he was only aware that he was doing so once she was back in NY and he was doing it on purpose to fool the police. I'm not sure how Gideon would have initiated a conversation about the end of their previous relationship. I think while Corinne was in France she was calling Gideon daily and likely crying to him about the end of her marriage etc... but I doubt she was telling him she still loved him and wanted him back. That would be coming on a bit strong for Corinne who tends to act much more subtly manipulating situations to her advantage. Also, by telling Gideon straight out the reason she was leaving her marriage was for him, she ran the risk ofhim telling her not to bother. Sure he was being a friend, but I don't think he was sending any indications to this married woman that he wanted her back (except those she chose to see/imagined for herself - all his dates looked like her - I think this is a mommy issue but everyone assumes its a Corinne issue) Once she was back in NY and he was purposely sending her mixed signals, he couldn't exactly sit her down and explain that they would never be anything but friends - he needed her reactions to be honest, so he needed her to believe that she had a chance. When he cut things off with Corinne, he should probably explained things a bit more. However, he would never tell her about his abuse and the issues that has caused, so how could he tell her he was relieved when she broke off the engagement without seriously hurting her? We don't know how that conversation between them went down, but I assume Corinne was probably quite upset during it, and Gideon wouldnt want to bring her more pain. In the long run, I think it would be good for her to know, but I can't see how he could tell her without telling her the full truth, and not hurt her deeply. She's been in love with him (well the man she thinks he is) for 10 years!!

Hi Gigi, I have a slightly different version of events - let me know what you think. Hugh is left alone more and more with Gideon as the shrink is distracted by Elizabeth. He starts the abuse with masturbation - something that will leave no evidence. Fairly quickly, Gideon approaches his mother and tells her about Hugh touching him. She asks Pediatrician #1 to examine Gideon for signs of abuse - none are found. Hugh's abuse of Gideon increases because he knows the mother doesn't believe the kid, he's been given access even after the accusations. He feels secure enough to escalate the abuse to anal rape. Gideon tells his mother again, and maybe because Gideon's claims sound more extreme this time, she seeks a second opinion. Enter Dr Terry Lucas - he does find evidence of abuse but lies and covers it up because Hugh is his brother-in-law. Gideon's mother really doesn't believe him now. He's been branded a liar by his family and ostracised further, also the abuse likely continues as it did before when Elizabeth didn't believe Gideon. After her pregnancy, Elizabeth decides she no longer needs to see the shrink, and Gideon's therapy clearly isn't working. This is how the abuse ends. Gideon felt the need to get revenge on those who had wronged him - Hugh and Terry. As he has not mentioned pediatrician#1 in anyhing more than passing, I can only assume that he doesn't consider him responsible for what happened to him. Sure, as a kid he probably hated him just as much as the other 2. But as an adult out to aftually get revenge, he likely figured out that the man didn't have any evidence to suggest Gideon was telling the truth. What do you think?