Entwined With You Snippets

[GiGi]

Hi Mrsmajessick,

This is Part Three:

As for the dominant theory, yes I agree with you. I think that he uses that as a coping mechanism. I think that if he isn’t in control of his sexual experiences, Gideon is afraid that he will be hurt again (just like he was badly hurt in his childhood where he had no control).

What is more interesting is the fact that somewhere deep down inside of him; Gideon really enjoyed that sexual experience with Eva. I suspect that for the first time in his life, Gideon allowed another human being to “top†him and as a result had an explosively positive sexual experience with Eva. That’s when he let his guard down just for a second and then subsequently went into a tailspin. He made the connection, for a brief second, that it is ok to let someone else take charge and; that you can be safe and have a pleasurable, positive, sexual experience. That alone would have directly contradicted every single other sexual experience Gideon ever had. I could see why he would be completely freaked out! He just contradicted himself and his own rules (that he set up to protect himself) and realized that maybe wouldn’t all those rules after all! If he didn’t need all those rules to live then how would he live? How is he supposed to navigate his way in this world, without getting hurt, without a plan and without all of his defenses? Wow! Scary!

I think that prior to his relationship with Eva; sex was just a pleasurable way to pass the time. It was a nice physical release. Gideon even mentioned that prior to Eva; he never had a lot of sex. It would be easy for the reader to understand why. Gideon had most likely associated sexual activity with pain and punishment. Later on in life, Gideon probably tested the waters and found a way that he could gain some type of pleasure in an activity that had once caused him so much pain. I think that is why he set up so many conditions before he had sex (i.e. He had to be in control, had to hold down his partner, was forceful during sex, etc.).

When Gideon started dating Corinne, he was settling. Maybe Gideon thought that because of all of his problems and issues that no woman would ever really want or love him. I don’t think that he thought that he could do any better. Corinne was someone that he could pass the time with (she was pretty, soft spoken, never had an unkind word to say…). I don’t think that Gideon consciously used her, but in retrospect it is obvious that he did. It is like he stated before…â€he allowed himself to be caught.,,†I think that he was in complete control the whole time but was trying to fool himself into being with someone whom he didn’t really love. He never connected with Corinne the way he did with Eva. In many respects, I think that Eva is his first real girlfriend. This is the only woman that he has ever opened his heart and home to.

You mentioned that you don’t think that Gideon knows how to love; I assert that I think Gideon knows how to love but that he is afraid to love and to let love in because he has been so badly abused in his past. All of his experiences have taught him that; people are mean, people are scary, people will hurt him and people will do anything to destroy him.

Finally with respect to your other comment, I think that Gideon knows who he is, but I think that he is afraid to trust that knowledge. I do however think that Gideon is learning and discovering who he is as an adult. The only emotional reference that Gideon has is that of a child which is what could cause him problems in the future. Phew! OK, what do you think?

[GiGi]

Hi LNCronan,

I find it interesting that individuals who have survived horrific abuse can then turn around and be labeled with horrible psychiatric illnesses. Let’s face it; it is like the ultimate slap in the face for a survivor to not only be demeaned by his/her abuser but also to be slapped in the face by the medical establishment, by saying that the victim is mentally ill.

Just because a person has suffered horrendous abuse doesn’t make him/her mentally ill, it means that they have suffered trauma and need help getting through those experiences. I think that many in the medical profession rush to judgment with “medical diagnosis†when they aren’t nearly capable or qualified to do so.

Current research and some of the very best in psychiatry have cleared stated that the medical profession has rushed to judgment, and that many patients have been incorrectly or completely misdiagnosed. They also state that the old “compendium†is clearly outdated and that many of the categories don’t serve a purpose. A person can’t be a “little psychotic†or a “little sociopathicâ€.

Having stated all of that, Sylvia may decide that indeed Gideon is one or many of the above and I the reader will have to figure out how to wrap my mind around “her†theories. I guess I will find out on June 4th.

[GiGi]

 

<p>

Based on all the backstory above, here are some&nbsp;Vidal questions I hope Entwined will answer. I'm even hoping Sylvia will toss out some Gideon/Vidal Sr. clues as spoiler question answers. Or snippets&nbsp;(Though thus far, the snippets are all&nbsp;juicy Gideon/Eva stuff and that's fine by me. I still laugh about&nbsp;"bad girl" nightclub Eva&nbsp;daring Gideon to "punish" her.&nbsp;And the new one this week, snippet 9,&nbsp;of Eva's weeping and Gideon's holding and kissing her made me reach for a tissue.)

&nbsp;

• Did the pediatrician exams&nbsp;actually FAIL to turn up trauma signs, because at the time there weren't any -- yet? Hand jobs wouldn't leave any marks.
• Or, did the exams, in fact, turn up trauma signs? There are several ways oral and/or anal penetration would leave marks on a child. Forcible anal penetration would leave the most&nbsp;severe physical&nbsp;trauma signs of all on any child, male or female.
• If there were trauma signs, was Elizabeth Vidal herself lied to? By pediatricians paid off by&nbsp;her husband? (Let's be honest, some doctors can be bought. Especially someone like a Terry Lucas, fresh out of medical school, probably struggling under student loan debt, and so willing to be talked into being paid a lot of money by&nbsp;Vidal Sr. in return for silence.)
• Biggest question of all: regardless of what the exams did (or did not) reveal, was the abuser subsequently allowed to continue&nbsp;to have unsupervised access to Gideon? Because if this were true, his mother's failure to believe him, devastating on it's own, would be so much more devastating. Not only did she fail him, but now because she thinks Gideon is lying, the coast is now clear for the abuser to be as brutal as he wants.

&nbsp;

Hi LNCronan,

I didn’t find anything out of the ordinary when Eva talked about her first impressions of Gideon’s parents. What I did find interesting was how Christopher Vidal Sr. made it a point to distinguish himself from his son with Eva? Why? Most parents are really proud of their children and wouldn’t mind about how they were addressed…as in “hi you must Christopher’s dad etc…†Why would Vidal Sr. want to make that distinction with someone who wasn’t really even Christopher Jr. friend but Gideon’s instead?

It is my theory and assertion that Gideon was left alone with his abuser subsequent to all of the examinations by the doctors. If you go back to book and read what Gideon said during one of his nightmares, it appears that Gideon’s attacks were extremely brutal. Gideon was screaming and crying during these attacks. What I wonder is where the heck was his mother when he was being attacked? Did none of the household staff hear him? How did the attacker explain Gideon’s crying and physical discomfort after one of his sessions? Did his mom really not notice?! What does everyone think?

[GiGi]

Hi LNCronan,

I don’t think that Gideon’s last name was changed because it was probably too much of a hassle for everyone involved (Gideon would have to have been adopted etc.). I also agree that Vidal Sr. probably took Elizabeth Cross’s son because he was forced to. I also think that maybe he wanted to make sure that the world knew that there was a distinction between the family he created with Elizabeth Vidal and the one he was stuck with-Gideon Cross.

I really hope that the third installment of the series will help to address everyone’s theories, because right now we are all stuck in “Speculation-Villeâ€. Sigh!

[Kirsten]

Hi LNCronan,

I don’t think that Gideon’s last name was changed because it was probably too much of a hassle for everyone involved (Gideon would have to have been adopted etc.). I also agree that Vidal Sr. probably took Elizabeth Cross’s son because he was forced to. I also think that maybe he wanted to make sure that the world knew that there was a distinction between the family he created with Elizabeth Vidal and the one he was stuck with-Gideon Cross.

I really hope that the third installment of the series will help to address everyone’s theories, because right now we are all stuck in “Speculation-Villeâ€. Sigh!

The adoption process in NY for a step-parent adoption with a deceased biological parent is really nothing. No hassle at all, especially for someone with money. There must be a reason why it wasn't done. IMO of course.

[ShazScott1980]

Hi LNCronan,

I don’t think that Gideon’s last name was changed because it was probably too much of a hassle for everyone involved (Gideon would have to have been adopted etc.). I also agree that Vidal Sr. probably took Elizabeth Cross’s son because he was forced to. I also think that maybe he wanted to make sure that the world knew that there was a distinction between the family he created with Elizabeth Vidal and the one he was stuck with-Gideon Cross.

I really hope that the third installment of the series will help to address everyone’s theories, because right now we are all stuck in “Speculation-Villeâ€. Sigh!

I think that Vidal Sr kept Gideon as Gideon cross to distance himself from the boy.

Or wanted him to always be identified as a Cross, the son that would pay for his fathers mistakes.

He had no attachment to this boy.

His priority was his trophy wife and her producing an heir for him and children of his own.

What I do find strange is that Gideon has the controlling share in Vidal music .

Why not Christopher Jr he is Vidal s heir ?

If Vidal Sr was in financial difficulties would he really want his step son to bail him out?

[LN Cronan]

Good morning, ladies of our active book club!

 

Re: Gideon's psychiatric diagnosis and misdiagnosis, past and present. I'm wondering whether Dr. Lucas AND the "male doctoral student" labeled young Gideon as having personality disorders (borderline, narcissist, etc.) Some of Gideon's symptoms, especially the physical angry outburst, could count toward several conditions, including personality disorders. But the anger issues ALONE do not qualify. Probably didn't stop one or both men though from slapping the wrong label on the kid.

 

Lucas' medical specialty is pediatrics, not child psychiatry. Pediatricians are the primary care doctors of children, and they're the ones who almost always refer young patients to specialists. Including child psychologist/psychiatrists. In medical school, Lucas would have had classes cover the basics and warning signs of various possible illnesses which needed referral to specialists, including mental illness in young patients. Lucas was NOT fully qualified to make the diagnosis himself, but he did possess enough medical expertise to diagnose suspected mental illness.

 

"Doctoral student" indicates the man was studying for a PhD. So he's already possess both a bachelor's and master's degree. The master's especially would qualify him to diagnose and treat SOME mental illnesses. One does not need to have the title "Dr." to treat mental patients. A "Dr." is the most highly trained in terms of formal education. But lower levels of college degrees do allow people to work in the mental health field. Including counseling patients.

 

Something to point out here is the confusion people have about the title "Dr." in the mental health field meaning "psychiatrist." It can also mean "psychologist." There is a very important difference between the two, though it's pretty common for many people to not differentiate between the two.

• A psychiatrist is a medical doctor whose specialty is diagnosing and treating mental illness. All psychiatrists are called "Dr." In terms of formal training, a psychiatrist is the most highly qualified of all the mental health professionals. He or she has been through medical school and then gone through additional years of study and training to become a medical specialist. And like any physician, these doctors can write drug prescriptions. They also supervise lower-level professionals who have some limited power to prescribe drugs (like nurse practicioners). When psychiatric drugs are used to treat a patient, a psychiatrist is directly or indirectly involved.
• A Dr. who is a psychologist is a person who has a PhD degree in psychology. Anyone with a PhD degree is some field is called "Dr." because that is the honorary title given to someone with a PhD degree. Just look around a college faculty list -- Dr. this in history, Dr. that in economics. They're called Dr. but they are something other than physicians.
• Bottom line: all psychiatrists have the title "Dr." because they literally are doctors. Not all psychologists are called "Dr." -- only the ones with PhDs. The ones with only bachelors and masters degrees are regular psychologists. Psychologists of all education levels can treat many mental health illnesses. especially by administering therapy. Indeed, most therapists are psychologists.

One last thing worth noting: I'm certain Dr. Petersen (who treats Gideon, Eva and Eva's mother) is a psychiatrist. The fact that Gideon left his very first appointment with a prescription for sleep medication indicates Petersen is a medical doctor. Plus he treats very rich patients. Psychiatrists are the most expensive of the mental health professionals, so the professionals who treat the rich are almost always psychiatrists -- their patients can afford them.

Psychiatrists who treat the rich are especially attractive to wealthy patients who want to pay out of pocket instead of getting a medical insurer involved. Medical claims leave paper trails that later follow around any patient. Monica, deeply ashamed of what happened to her daughter and having all the past paperwork made secret, most certainly wouldn't want the new paper trail of psychiatric treatment for her own guilt/anxiety issues stemming from that. It's reasonable to assume too that Gideon paid out of pocket for both individual and couples therapy. He most certainly would not want any sort of paper trail about his own sexual history. Several hundred bucks a session is not even pocket change for someone worth $12.5 billion bucks.

[LN Cronan]

Whatever mental health illnesses Gideon does not have, he most certainly does have post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). So does Eva. It's the consequence of serious abuse suffered as a child. Most especially brutal repeated rapes.

Both have the most common symptom of all: nightmares. The fact Eva can almost be triggered while conscious too indicates she may have flashbacks. Anger is another common symptom of PTSD. Think about another group of people who commonly suffer from PTSD - combat veterans. They have nightmares. Many of them have anger issues too. Some of them with more severe cases suffer flashbacks.

Eva used to have anger issues bad enough that her Dad, when she was living out in San Diego, sent her to treatment/counseling (Dr. Travis, where she entered group therapy.) Eva's Dad obviously didn't know about the rape history, but Dr. Travis (who insisted on complete honesty from his "kids") would have known. And treated her. Certainly, Cary knew all about it, and that's where she and Cary met: in group therapy with Dr. Travis.

She's made some progress, because amongst the things she quit doing after being treated was one of the sexual behaviors some childhood rape victims with PTSD engage in - being promiscuous. It stems from low self-esteem. Eva was at her worst when she was throwing herself at Brett and settling for scraps. She herself recognized this, which was a factor in her finally not wanting to settle for being just another groupie, one Brett f***** in a bathroom stall between sets at concerts. She was already starting to reconsider her position when something Brett did was the final straw that made her pull one of Eva's Famous Runners. She overheard Brett talking about -- and laughing about -- her to his band's drummer.

Her Dad knew about the anger and knew a little bit about her being "wild." He knew in passing about at least two boyfriends he disapproved of, because this fact is mentioned in Bared to You. One was a rock singer (note: this was our tiny first red flag in Bared about Brett, whom we'd meet in Reflected.) Plus there was an incident when her Dad out on police patrol pulled over a guy who turned out to be Eva's boyfriend at the time. The guy was getting a b*** job from some other woman while driving.

Gideon's PTSD involves a sexual symptom too -- that he violently acts out in some nightmares, including attacking bed partners. It's unusual, but not unknown. Dr. Petersen started treating Gideon for it through a combination of sleep medication and starting therapy.

[LN Cronan]

Last thought on Gideon's possible psychiatric history: I wonder whether he already suffered PTSD at the time he became Vidal's stepson. That he was severely traumatized by his father's suicide -- his PTSD began years before he got raped, something that definitely would have caused PTSD (or worsened existing PTSD).

 

I'm not talking about merely the sudden loss of a parent. Maybe Gideon was home when his father shot himself, upon hearing the shot ran to investigate and saw his father's dead body, head blown off and blood/brain matter splattered everywhere.

When a person uses a gun to commit suicide, he/she almost always does it in a private place, especially the home. Same deal with hanging one's self. To do so in a public place is to risk some stranger stopping the suicide.

Gideon was five years old. Pre-elementary school age, which meant he wasn't yet in school fulltime during the week. Old enough to possibly register what he was seeing was someone shot. Certainly old enough to recognize blood. Maybe also by then learned what "dead" meant through the loss of a grandparent or even a pet.


We know from hints of what Gideon told Eva that Gideon got into fights at school. He explained it away as bullying because of the stigma of being his father's son. Red herring? It was part, but only part, of the explanation. The full explanation for Gideon's grade-school age fighting was he got angry a lot because he had full-blown PTSD? It was his anger that prompted him to be the kid actually picking the fights, and that turned him into an unpopular kid others would then pick on?

We know Entwined will take us to Gideon's dark places. Will this include him telling Eva the full backstory about why he was so out of control the Vidals put him into the treatment that resulted in him getting sexually abused?

Remember, too, the reason the Vidals finally put Gideon into treatment as a very young teen most certainly wasn't for his benefit. It was because Gideon had become a bad influence on Christopher Jr., who was now imitating Gideon's physical outbursts, and putting too much strain on the pregnant Elizabeth Vidal carrying Ireland. Mr. I'll-Bet-He's-A-Rotten-Human-Being Christopher Vidal Sr. didn't shell out big $$$ for private treatment for the benefit of his messed-up stepson. He did it for the benefit of his trophy wife and his biological children.

[LN Cronan]

Something just clicked for me on how it was Dr. Lucas "alienated" Gideon from his family. Maybe together with the "male doctoral student" they together formally diagnosed young Gideon as "narcissistic sociopath" and the Vidals bought it, hook, line and sinker.

 

Based in part of what Lucas, a physician whose specialty is children, told the Vidals, Gideon's own mother (not to mention her second husband) concluded that Gideon was a seriously defective kid, and he got treated as such throughout the rest of his teens. And Dr. Lucas put young Gideon on psych meds the Vidals forced him to take.

Here's my theories ......

• The male doctoral candidate made the formal diagnosis in order to bolster the argument Gideon was so messed up that stunts he would pull for attention including lying about being sexually abused. The doctoral candidate made the diagnosis to cover himself that Gideon wasn't lying, and Dr. Lucas backed the guy up.
• As a pediatrician, Lucas is medically qualified to diagnose suspected mental illness, qualified enough to give clear reason for referring a young patient to mental health specialists. Even qualified enough to diagnose what the suspected illness is (for example, ADHD, depression, autism spectrum, etc.) He's supposed to send a kid to a specialist qualified to make a full, formal diagnosis of what the pediatrician suspects.
• As a "doctoral student" studying for a PhD, the guy already had enough psychology degrees (bachelor's, master's) to be a mental health specialist qualified to actually diagnose conditions. One does not have to be "Dr." to formally diagnose mental illness. A bachelor's degree in psychology is enough to qualify a person as a psychologist. "Dr." simply means the professional is very highly educated (either a PhD in psychology or even a full-blown medical doctor who is a specialist in psychiatry.)
• I wonder whether in response to all this too, Gideon was made to take psychiatric medication as a kid. The doctoral student would be qualified to make the diagnosis, but not qualified to prescribe drugs. Dr. Lucas as a physician IS qualified to prescribe drugs. Yes, yes, I know it should have bee a psychiatrist writing the scrips. But we all know that too often, family practicioners write scripts instead.

So if my theories are true, Lucas helped seal the deal that Gideon's own mother thought he was seriously disturbed. And in a way now, he was at that point in his childhood disturbed -- he's got full-blown PTSD from having been brutally raped. Maybe forced to take medication. He's an OUTCAST in his own family. That is "alienated."

[LN Cronan]

See pages 240 to 242 of Reflected. Eva, at the hospital spending time with Cary, is in the cafeteria taking a break. Dr. Lucas spots her there and talks to her. This is where he throws out the narcissist sociopath diagnosis he himself probably helped make on Gideon years ago.

Then Lucas throws onto the pile an adult diagnosis of misogynist (a man who pathologically hates women and is inclined to abuse them). This second diagnosis is based purely on what Gideon did to Lucas' wife, Anne (which actually WAS emotionally abusive, though motivated by revenge, not misogyny.) Lucas is surprised Eva knows a little bit about what happened between Gideon and Anne.

That Eva knows about Anne and still stayed with Gideon causes Lucas to be even more concerned. And Lucas poisons Eva's mind into thinking that maybe Gideon is emotionally manipulating and abusing Eva too. Sad thing is that Lucas caught Eva at a very vulnerable moment when in fact, Gideon WAS mentally/emotionally manipulating her in a way that was deliberately hurting her.

At the very time Lucas caught Eva off guard, Gideon WAS engaging in a form of emotional abuse against Eva. This was in the middle of the week he was planning to kill Nathan. This was driven by his plan to save her life by leaving her side, even driving her away, but keeping her in the dark about why he was doing it. To protect both of them from the cops.

It wasn't misogyny. But that doesn't diminish the fact Gideon was hurting her in a way that made Lucas' poison words ring true.

[Kirsten]

_{Sylvia just announced on FB that she'll have news to share on Tuesday... I'm guessing she'll announce book 4 in the series.}

[GiGi]

Hi LNCronan,

I just wanted to clarify a few quick points. In Canada, a person with a Master’s degree doesn’t have the legal ability or the educational ability to diagnose a child with such a severe mental illness (I am sure that the US has very similar if not exactly the same laws). I am sure that yes, they can clinically treat said with talk therapy but quite frankly Gideon wouldn’t have been seen with someone with such low qualifications. The grad student also couldn’t legally diagnose Gideon or even offer his opinion. He was already breaking the law by treating someone; whom he had no qualifications to do so and wasn’t in the prescribed setting (i.e. University Clinic).

In order to become a physiatrist, a person has to be a medical doctor first and then has to continue on into a specialty such as psychiatry for an additional; four year or six year university education and hospital rotation. You must be a medical doctor in order to understand just exactly how medications affect other organ systems in the body etc. It is also really important thing to remember that psychiatrists are giving people medications that; if not administered correctly could cause devastating effect on the person and population at large.

If Gideon were that mentally ill, he WOULDN’T be seen by a psychologist. Period! AS I stated before, I think that Dr. Lucas’ pseudo diagnosis of Gideon wouldn’t have stood up in front a medical review board and he most likely would have lost his license.

• You mentioned Dr. Lucas’ qualifications: He would have been mandated to refer Gideon to the appropriate specialist or could have faced losing his license. You don’t send a patient needing a heart operation to a general physician…you send them to a heart surgeon.

• As far as the paper trail is concerned, the government isn’t allowed nor is any doctor (regardless of the specialty) allowed to disclose ANY information about a patient. That also INCLUDES if said person is a patient of that office, etc.

• Obtaining those types of records are next to impossible, even if a patient dies. Their files are still protected.

[GiGi]

&nbsp;

See pages 240 to 242 of Reflected. Eva, at the hospital spending time with Cary, is in the cafeteria taking a break. Dr. Lucas spots her there and talks to her. This is where he throws out the narcissist sociopath diagnosis he himself probably helped make on Gideon years ago.

Then Lucas throws onto the pile an adult diagnosis of misogynist (a man who pathologically hates women and is inclined to abuse them). This second diagnosis is based purely on what Gideon did to Lucas' wife, Anne (which actually WAS emotionally abusive, though motivated by revenge, not misogyny.) Lucas is surprised Eva knows a little bit about what happened between Gideon and Anne.

That Eva knows about Anne and still stayed with Gideon causes Lucas to be even more concerned. And Lucas poisons Eva's mind into thinking that maybe Gideon is emotionally manipulating and abusing Eva too. Sad thing is that Lucas caught Eva at a very vulnerable moment when in fact, Gideon WAS mentally/emotionally manipulating her in a way that was deliberately hurting her.

At the very time Lucas caught Eva off guard, Gideon WAS engaging in a form of emotional abuse against Eva. This was in the middle of the week he was planning to kill Nathan. This was driven by his plan to save her life by leaving her side, even driving her away, but keeping her in the dark about why he was doing it. To protect both of them from the cops.

It wasn't misogyny. But that doesn't diminish the fact Gideon was hurting her in a way that made Lucas' poison words ring true.

&nbsp;

Hi LNCronan,

If this keeps up they are going to be playing a game of “Diagnosis Clue†with the man! Oh for crying out loud! If anybody took a look at his records, they’d kill themselves laughing! Then they’d be making a phone call to their healthcare regulatory body in order to lodge a complaint of professional misconduct against our dear Dr. Lucas and that lovely grad student. Sigh!

Dr. Lucas is selling this pile of crap to Eva because she weak and emotionally vulnerable and I suspect that he senses that. That is his modus operandi. He wouldn't dare open his mouth to his colleagues because that would raise HUGE RED FLAGS!!! So he quietly picks at the people who surround Gideon and hopes to poison their minds against him. That's how he gets his revenge.

Afterall Dr. Lucas is a doctor and many people believe without question what a doctor would say. Sigh! I am just so glad that Eva isn't one of those people.

[LN Cronan]

Up in Canada, you folks have a kinder, gentler system. It's a bit more brutal down here. Some things are the same here in the U.S. but other things are different.

 

• Psychiatrists are medical doctors. That's true around the world.
• However, in the United States, some mental health professionals who are neither medical doctors nor PhD psychologists are qualified to formally diagnose someone as mentally ill. And to treat them. The only form of treatment exclusively in the hand of medical doctors is prescribing drugs. Other forms of treatment can be administered by lesser-qualified professionals.
• Of course the Vidals should have had the best-qualified people treating Gideon. There's a lot of things they should have done but did not. Because they used money to get around "the system" and failed the kid utterly.
• If the authorities found out Dr. Lucas did not report mere accusations of child abuse, well then yes, he could lose his license. But as for the rest of it? Nope. The doctoral candidate mis-diagnose? Not Lucas' fault. And not anything he'd even get in trouble for. Dr. Lucas put Gideon on meds himself? He's a doctor, he can do that. Especially because he's a pediatrician, he can put the child Gideon on drugs himself.
• We do have strict privacy laws in the United States about medical records, but they're not as strict as they are in some other nations.

[LN Cronan]

&nbsp; &nbsp;

Hi LNCronan,

If this keeps up they are going to be playing a game of “Diagnosis Clue†with the man! Oh for crying out loud! If anybody took a look at his records, they’d kill themselves laughing! Then they’d be making a phone call to their healthcare regulatory body in order to lodge a complaint of professional misconduct against our dear Dr. Lucas and that lovely grad student. Sigh!

Dr. Lucas is selling this pile of crap to Eva because she weak and emotionally vulnerable and I suspect that he senses that. That is his modus operandi. He wouldn't dare open his mouth to his colleagues because that would raise HUGE RED FLAGS!!! So he quietly picks at the people who surround Gideon and hopes to poison their minds against him. That's how he gets his revenge.

Afterall Dr. Lucas is a doctor and many people believe without question what a doctor would say. Sigh! I am just so glad that Eva isn't one of those people.

Rock on!!! Eventually Eva saw right through Lucas. Just like she saw right through Corrine.

 

Both of them tried playing on Eva's insecurities, and both caught her when she was vulnerable. So for a while, she wondered. But she's stronger than that, so in the end she made up her own mind. And took Gideon's side on all of it -- against Lucas, against Corrine, against his mother.

[GiGi]

&nbsp;

<p>

Up in Canada, you folks have a kinder, gentler system. It's a bit more brutal down here.&nbsp;Some things are the same here in the U.S. but other things are different.

&nbsp;

• Psychiatrists are medical doctors. That's true around the world.
• However, in the United States, some mental health professionals who are neither medical doctors nor PhD psychologists are qualified to formally diagnose someone as mentally ill. And to treat them. The only form of treatment exclusively in the hand of medical doctors is prescribing drugs. Other forms of treatment can be administered by lesser-qualified professionals.
• Of course the Vidals should have had the best-qualified people treating Gideon. There's a lot of things they should have done but did not. Because they used money to get around "the system" and failed the kid utterly.
• If the authorities found out Dr. Lucas did not report mere accusations of child abuse, well then yes, he could lose his license. But as for the rest of it? Nope. The doctoral candidate mis-diagnose? Not Lucas' fault. And not anything he'd even get in trouble for. Dr. Lucas put Gideon on meds himself? He's a doctor, he can do that. Especially because he's a pediatrician, he can put the child Gideon on drugs himself.
• We do have strict privacy laws in the United States about medical records, but they're not as strict as they are in some other nations.

&nbsp;

Hi LNCronan,

What I am saying is, if any actual psychiatrist or pediatric psychiatrist took a look at Gideon’s’ records there is no way that they would support said “diagnosis†of someone of lesser educational standing. If anything that would raise HUGE RED FLAGS for the person assessing theses diagnoses.

If you look at my technical theory about how a grad student can treat a patient, those rules apply all across North America. These people know that they are clearing breaking the law, but the money must have been good enough that they found it worth the risk. What I think they didn’t count on was a third party becoming involved. That third party could eventually be Gideon if he decides to pursue these matters.

That’s when the real s**t storm would happen. It will be interesting to see how Sylvia will deal with these issues in the next book.

[LN Cronan]

Something that just occurred to me GiGi about why we're both talking about such big differences in how Gideon was treated medically ......

 

..... in your country, you have universal health. Essentially the government runs the medical system, much like it runs the school system.

 

Down here in the United States, we have universal education for children (free education up to grade 12). But our health system most certainly is not run by our government, unfortunately. It's privately run. Which really, quite frankly, s**** for we patients everywhere.

 

Certainly, there are some government regulations that say what professionals must -- and especially what they must NOT -- do. But the government does not have absolute control over everything. Because the government isn't paying the bills. The insurance companies and the patients themselves are paying. Most medical facilities are for-profit. Doctors are for-profit too. And the drug stores most certainly are for profit. GiGi you would weep to see the prices at our pharmacies, and the bind that people who do not have health insurance are in.

[GiGi]

Hi everyone,

I don’t care what country a person lives in. I can absolutely guarantee that medical specialists absolutely HATE it when a general physician goes ahead and diagnoses a patient with an illness when they clearly don’t have SPECIALIZED EDUCATION to do so!!

They grow horns out of their heads!!! I know that for sure!!

[LN Cronan]

&nbsp; &nbsp;

Hi LNCronan,

What I am saying is, if any actual psychiatrist or pediatric psychiatrist took a look at Gideon’s’ records there is no way that they would support said “diagnosis†of someone of lesser educational standing. If anything that would raise HUGE RED FLAGS for the person assessing theses diagnoses.

If you look at my technical theory about how a grad student can treat a patient, those rules apply all across North America. These people know that they are clearing breaking the law, but the money must have been good enough that they found it worth the risk. What I think they didn’t count on was a third party becoming involved. That third party could eventually be Gideon if he decides to pursue these matters.

That’s when the real s**t storm would happen. It will be interesting to see how Sylvia will deal with these issues in the next book.

 

Oh Gideon most certainly IS pursuing these childhood injustices, now that he is a man. But not through any officials channels. He's been getting even himself.

 

• Dr. Lucas? Slept with his wife and broke her heart. Revenge for alienating Gideon from his family.
• Stepfather? Got financial control of the man's company and now holds the power to ruin the man on a whim if he wants. Revenge for Vidal Sr. using his money to control Gideon's mother and medical professionals he paid for when Gideon was a helpless, hurt boy.
• Mom? Hardly will even speak to the woman. Which hurts her a great deal. Revenge for her having not stood by him as a kid.

 

 

We don't even know yet what Gideon did to the man who raped him as a kid. I'll bet it's nasty though, and I'm sure we'll find out in Entwined. But it would NOT have been murder. Gideon didn't kill Nathan for revenge -- he did it to save Eva's life from a dangerous maniac.

[GiGi]

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Something that just occurred to me GiGi about why we're both talking about such big differences in how Gideon was treated medically ......

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..... in your country, you have universal health. Essentially the government runs the medical system, much like it runs the school system.

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Down here in the United States, we have universal education for children (free education up to grade 12). But our health system most certainly is not run by our government, unfortunately. It's privately run. Which really, quite frankly, s**** for we patients everywhere.

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Certainly, there are some government regulations that say what professionals must -- and especially what they must NOT -- do. But the government does not have absolute control over everything. Because the government isn't paying the bills. The insurance companies and the patients themselves are paying. Most medical facilities are for-profit. Doctors are for-profit too. And the drug stores most certainly are for profit. GiGi you would weep to see the prices at our pharmacies, and the bind that people who do not have health insurance are in.

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Hi LNCronan,

We also have a universal education system. Every child can attend school for free until OAC or Grade 12. We used to have Grade 13, but that’s another discussion for another day. I do however know that our University systems are also the same under which they allow grad students to medically treat patients. Those things are universal and not different.

Yes I can see Elizabeth Vidal letting some things slip through the cracks because she was having a difficult pregnancy but NO WAY would I believe that she would just accept such a devastating diagnosis for her kid!

I think that Elizabeth Vidal would have knocked on every specialists door to get a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth…..opinion until she found someone who could help her son. Those types of diagnoses for a child are like a physiological death sentence.

I don’t care how much trouble Gideon was stirring up, there is no way that she would have allowed something like that to happen to her kid. I could however see the good Christopher Vidal Sr. buying that crap diagnosis. It would behoove the man to believe those lies, because then Vidal Sr. could justify him lying to his wife. He would have been protecting his wife from the little monster and he would have been trying to figure out a way to get rid of Gideon as soon as possible; if for no other reason than for the protection of “his†two children.

[LN Cronan]

Hi everyone,

I don’t care what country a person lives in. I can absolutely guarantee that medical specialists absolutely HATE it when a general physician goes ahead and diagnoses a patient with an illness when they clearly don’t have SPECIALIZED EDUCATION to do so!!

They grow horns out of their heads!!! I know that for sure!!

 

Agree, GiGi. Alas though, in our country, insurance companies, who are in it to make a profit, hate paying for specialists. Make a huge stink about specialist referrals. Hospitals/clinics are there to make profits too. And doctors are in it to make a living off what the insurance companies and their patients pay.

 

So unfortunately, there is a great deal of general practioners handling stuff that specialists really ought to. The vast, vast, VAST majority of prescriptions for antidepressants in the United States are written by family doctors, not psychiatrist. Sad (bad pun not intended there). Most people who suffer from depression end up with pills from their primary, not full evaluation by a psychiatrist. And most people who do get therapy get it from psychologist, including those with lesser degrees than PhD.

 

Because down here, the medical system is private and for profit. I hate it!!

[LN Cronan]

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Hi LNCronan,

We also have a universal education system. Every child can attend school for free until OAC or Grade 12. We used to have Grade 13, but that’s another discussion for another day. I do however know that our University systems are also the same under which they allow grad students to medically treat patients. Those things are universal and not different.

Yes I can see Elizabeth Vidal letting some things slip through the cracks because she was having a difficult pregnancy but NO WAY would I believe that she would just accept such a devastating diagnosis for her kid!

I think that Elizabeth Vidal would have knocked on every specialists door to get a second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth…..opinion until she found someone who could help her son. Those types of diagnoses for a child are like a physiological death sentence.

I don’t care how much trouble Gideon was stirring up, there is no way that she would have allowed something like that to happen to her kid. I could however see the good Christopher Vidal Sr. buying that crap diagnosis. It would behoove the man to believe those lies, because then Vidal Sr. could justify him lying to his wife. He would have been protecting his wife from the little monster and he would have been trying to figure out a way to get rid of Gideon as soon as possible; if for no other reason than for the protection of “his†two children.

 

Here's the sad thing -- Elizabeth Vidal DID believe the professionals over her own child. She failed him utterly. In my opinion, she is a self-centered woman who put financial security ahead of everything else by letting her rich husband call all the shots. And I think she gave up Gideon as a lost cause, switching her attention to raising the two biological children of her rich husband.

 

No wonder Gideon doesn't love her. It bugs her a lot too. Maybe some of it is guilt, but I'll bet a part of it is her still believing there's something wrong with Gideon, not with her. Look at the martyr act Elizabeth Vidal pulls when Eva gets in her face about what a bad mother she was.

[GiGi]

Hi LNCronan,

I was just thinking about what you said and I thought; “What is the best way for a man to get revenge?†You systematically destroy your enemy piece by piece.

1. You eliminate your enemy from having any ability to sustain an income (i.e. you get his license revoked) because he either covered up a horrific abuse case or he was the abuser.

2. You destroy his credibility by exposing his crime of abuse or his covering up of said abuse.

3. You alienate him from his friends and family. I suspect that if Anne Lucas was aware of Dr. Lucas’s involvement in Gideon’s abuse case, then I suspect that she would be running for the hills (that is if her marriage happened to survive her affair). I can also guarantee that if he was such a monster none of colleagues would have anything to do with him either. He would be a literal pariah.

4. You take away his freedom (if at all possible). If Dr. Lucas was Gideon’s abuser, it would be very easy to get him convicted.

After all is said and done I would suspect that Dr. Lucas would be looking for a bridge to jump off of. One could almost that it was a fitting end for all of his deeds.

[GiGi]

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Here's the sad thing -- Elizabeth Vidal DID believe the professionals over her own child. She failed him utterly. In my opinion, she is a self-centered woman who put financial security ahead of everything else by letting her rich husband call all the shots. And I think she gave up Gideon as a lost cause, switching her attention to raising the two biological children of her rich husband.

&nbsp;

No wonder Gideon doesn't love her. It bugs her a lot too. Maybe some of it is guilt, but I'll bet a part of it is her still believing there's something wrong with Gideon, not with her. Look at the martyr act Elizabeth Vidal pulls when Eva gets in her face about what a bad mother she was.

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Hi LNCronan,

I just wanted to clarify that Elizabeth Vidal believed the physicians in that they said they couldn’t find any visible signs of abuse. I think that is a far cry from a specialist saying “Hey your son has a severe mental illness and by the way, he is a borderline monster.†I don’t believe that Elizabeth Vidal would take that at face value.

Pregnancies eventually end, she would have had the baby and then would have gone looking to see how she could help her son.She would have sought out every single specialist in US to figure out what was going on with her son. Not just a pediatrician. At some point common sense would have dictated that she would have suspected something was up and started digging.