Mothers and Fathers - Monica and Elizabeth and Victor and Geoffrey

[BettyY37]

In the first three books of the Crossfire series we have been introduced to the mothers of the main characters.  Both women had to deal with the sexual abuse of their children.  How they dealt with that abuse has helped to shape the adults at the center of this series.

 

Neither Eva nor Gideon had their biological fathers with them during their ordeal.  The absence of each man probably had an impact on what happened to their children and events in their lives afterwards.

 

Sylvia told us today old wounds, insecurities, and enemies are going to significantly effect the relationship between Eva and Gideon in the fourth book "Captivated by You".

 

Now would be a good time to discuss the parents.  We can talk about what they did or did not do, should or should not have done and in the case of the fathers could or could not do.

 

 

PS

Opinions about stepfathers are also welcome.

[BettyY37]

In chapter 17 of "Reflected in You" Elizabeth says

“I’m Christopher’s mother, too, and he was there. He swears nothing happened. Who was I supposed to believe when there was no proof? No one could find anything to support Gideon’s claims.â€

I wondered if Gideon knew Christopher told their mother nothing happened. I do not think Gideon knows. He said in chapter 20 of "Bared to You"

“Over the years, I’ve made every attempt to talk to Christopher. I’ve tried throwing money at him. I’ve tried threatening him. He’s never shown any inclination to change. I realized long ago that I can only do damage controlâ€

Gideon does not sound like a man who knows his brother betrayed him along with Dr.Terrence Lucas. (We know what Gideon did to Lucas.)

Elizabeth was wrong to not believe Gideon. As his mother too, she should have known about Christopher's feelings toward Gideon.

[BettyY37]

Eva loves Victor Reyes, her father. When she discovers "My parents slept with each other.†she tells her father she is ashamed of him.

Eva is morally outraged at his behavior in the apartment paid for by her stepfather, Richard Stanton. Eva tells Cary she does not even like Stanton "half the time."

Where should her loyalties be?

[sscrph]

Eva loves Victor Reyes, her father. When she discovers "My parents slept with each other.†she tells her father she is ashamed of him.

Eva is morally outraged at his behavior in the apartment paid for by her stepfather, Richard Stanton. Eva tells Cary she does not even like Stanton "half the time."

Where should her loyalties be?

I think loyalty has nothing to do with morals in this case. Eva is disappointed in her father's behavior and rightly so. His behavior was morally wrong due to the fact that Monica was a married woman and he should have set a better example for his daughter. Eva told him how she felt and this has nothing to do with loyalty. She shouldn't agree with his behavior just because he is her dad. I think that Stanton does deserve Eva's loyalty in this case because he has been good to her AND her mother. He did his best to protect Eva from her past and puts up with a lot of Monica's baggage .

[BettyY37]

“Unfortunately. I was mean, and now I’m feeling awful about it. I need to talk to him but it’s weird, because the person I’m feeling most loyal to is Stanton. I don’t even like the guy half the timeâ€

Excerpt From: Day, Sylvia. “Entwined with You.â€

Eva is conflicted. She speaks of loyalty to Stanton because of what he has done for her and her mother. Eva knows her dad and mother were morally wrong but she states in this conversation with Cary she would be less "freaked" if they had gone some place else.

Her feelings are not resolved

[BettyY37]

Gideon was named after his father, Gideon Geoffrey Cross. He talks about fun times at the beach and carrying the shame of what his father did. I think the most telling comment Gideon makes about his feelings for his father are made when he is speaking about someone else

“He only knows that his dad is gone, by choice, and he’s left behind. He’ll believe his father didn’t care enough about him to stay.â€

“Baby.†I pulled his head toward me, urging him to rest against me. I didn’t know what to say. I couldn’t make excuses for Geoffrey Cross and I knew Gideon was thinking of him, as well as the boy he himself had once been. “You didn’t do anything wrong.â€

Excerpt From: Day, Sylvia. “Entwined with You.†Penguin Group

[MegansCoils]

In chapter 17 of "Reflected in You" Elizabeth says

“I’m Christopher’s mother, too, and he was there. He swears nothing happened. Who was I supposed to believe when there was no proof? No one could find anything to support Gideon’s claims.â€

I wondered if Gideon knew Christopher told their mother nothing happened. I do not think Gideon knows. He said in chapter 20 of "Bared to You"

“Over the years, I’ve made every attempt to talk to Christopher. I’ve tried throwing money at him. I’ve tried threatening him. He’s never shown any inclination to change. I realized long ago that I can only do damage controlâ€

Gideon does not sound like a man who knows his brother betrayed him along with Dr.Terrence Lucas. (We know what Gideon did to Lucas.)

Elizabeth was wrong to not believe Gideon. As his mother too, she should have known about Christopher's feelings toward Gideon.

With the "he was there" comment, that could mean that the abuser did not do anything while Chris was there or since Chris was so much younger his memory could have been distorted. Especially since (we assume) it did not happen to him, Chris could have been told something else happened or he did not notice.

 

 

 

I feel horrible for Eva's mother. She honestly did not know and when she found out she removed Eva from the environment (unlike Gideon's mom). I think she still feels bad about it now too. G's mom is still being a b**** about it and calling him a liar.

[BettyY37]

MeganCoils

You and I are in the minority regarding Monica.  She definitely still carries serious scars regarding not protecting her daughter.  I also believe she did the best she could.  I also agree, Elizabeth does not appear to feel remorse for what happened to her child.

 

THOUGHT

Has anyone other than Eva and Cary seen Gideon's nightmares?

 

I would accept your possiblities for Christopher except his behavior toward Magdalene and his tendancy to lash out at Gideon in additon to what he told Eva at lunch make him seem like a young man who wants to hurt his brother.

 

I read that quote as saying Gideon identified a time and place.  Christopher was there but he contradicted Gideon and said nothing happened.

 

Christopher could have been abused by Hugh but if Hugh liked Gideon, his brother may have been too young. One important fact that is unknown at this time is how long did Gideon's abuse last. 

[agoodbook]

Betty: I feel that a can worms will open up and we will find out Christopher is so angry because he was abused as well.and Im thinking he doesn't know that Gideon was, and that's why he hates him so much.

[sscrph]

Betty: I feel that a can worms will open up and we will find out Christopher is so angry because he was abused as well.and Im thinking he doesn't know that Gideon was, and that's why he hates him so much.

This is certainly an interesting possibility...

[GiGi]

In chapter 17 of "Reflected in You" Elizabeth says

“I’m Christopher’s mother, too, and he was there. He swears nothing happened. Who was I supposed to believe when there was no proof? No one could find anything to support Gideon’s claims.â€

I wondered if Gideon knew Christopher told their mother nothing happened. I do not think Gideon knows. He said in chapter 20 of "Bared to You"

“Over the years, I’ve made every attempt to talk to Christopher. I’ve tried throwing money at him. I’ve tried threatening him. He’s never shown any inclination to change. I realized long ago that I can only do damage controlâ€

Gideon does not sound like a man who knows his brother betrayed him along with Dr.Terrence Lucas. (We know what Gideon did to Lucas.)

Elizabeth was wrong to not believe Gideon. As his mother too, she should have known about Christopher's feelings toward Gideon.

Hi Betty.

I think that the most important thing was the Elizabeth Vidal should NEVER have asked Christopher Jr. about Gideon's abuse.  She put a five year old on the spot and then pitted on child against the other in her misguided attempts to find the truth.

 

Elizabeth should have believed her child from the beginning...point...stop! 

 

Your quote about Gideon's attempts to deal with Christopher's bad behaviour doesn't correlate with Gideon's abuse.  One issue has nothing to do with the other.  Could you please clarify why you included that comment?  It would help me to understand what your postion is more clearly.  Thanks in advance. 

[GiGi]

Eva loves Victor Reyes, her father. When she discovers "My parents slept with each other.†she tells her father she is ashamed of him.

Eva is morally outraged at his behavior in the apartment paid for by her stepfather, Richard Stanton. Eva tells Cary she does not even like Stanton "half the time."

Where should her loyalties be?

Hi Betty,

Eva's loyalties lay with herself.  Both parents; Monica and Victor, have been less than ideal for so many reasons.  We the readers are given so little information about Eva's relationship with her father during the early years.  Where was Victor?  Did he have visitation rights?  Did he see his daughter on a regular basis or did he just have the occasional phone call on birthday's and holidays?  What made Victor feel like he couldn't be a part of his daughter's life?

 

Monica on the other hand had primary physical custody and when she wasn't busy trying to snag a husband she wasn't paying attention to what was going on underneath her own household roof?  What's her deal?  How can she be considered a good mother? 

 

Monica did the "social circle" ho-stro until she managed to bag another husband.  Her track record of husbands, thus  far, stinks!  One had a sociopath/psychopath for a child (who never knew about his son's proclivities...???) and the other was a degenerate gambler.  Stanton gives in at every turn, so how is he a better husband.  At what point, do we as individuals, go beyond saying that Monica had a run of bad luck, and start questioning Monica's judgement. 

 

Now if we couple that with the fact that in 1461 days, Monica was completely clueless and out-to-lunch as far as her daughter was concerned, how can we still say that she is a good mother?  If we also include that lovely little tidbit of Monica hiding Eva's abuse from Victor, do we honestly think that she was/is a good mother?   

 

Another thing to consider; in 1461 days Monica NEVER checked; her daughter's bedsheets, underware (for blood), bathed her daughter or saw her daughter in her undergarments (which would be normal if a mother-daughter went shopping together and a mother was ACTIVELY involved in her daughter's life), never would have noticed ALL of the EMOTIONAL or PHYSICAL symptoms that her daughter must have been exhibiting, or her choice of pediatrician and annual examinations.  I am sure that parents have to take their children to the doctor, but not once in four years did anyone detect that something was wrong with Eva?

 

Finally the point must be made about the household staff; who one earth did these people employ that could stand by and watch while Eva was being raped and tortured on a nearly daily basis?  In 1461 days, surely SOMEONE heard SOMETHING!!  When does it stop being everyone else's fault? 

 

When is it Monica's turn to start accepting responsibility? 

[BettyY37]

Okay GiGi

I included Gideon's comment about Christopher to show he tried to be close to his brother. That was a strong indication that Gideon had no idea Christopher had not supported him regarding Hugh's abuse. I felt Gideon would not have tried so hard if he thought/knew Christopher had betrayed him. Gideon sought to destroy everyone he thought betrayed him. Gideon not knowing what Christopher told their mother provides more insight into Elizabeth. Whether you think she should have told Gideon what his younger brother said can be discussed.

I do not think she should tell Gideon.

[GiGi]

Hi Betty & Everyone,

It has occurred to me that while I have been busily stating why I feel that Monica is not a good mother, no one has come forward to state why they believe that Monica is a good mother?  What makes Monica a good mother in your opinion?  It would be nice to hear what everyone's opinions and comments are on this subject.  Thanks. 

[GiGi]

Okay GiGi

I included Gideon's comment about Christopher to show he tried to be close to his brother. That was a strong indication that Gideon had no idea Christopher had not supported him regarding Hugh's abuse. I felt Gideon would not have tried so hard if he thought/knew Christopher had betrayed him. Gideon sought to destroy everyone he thought betrayed him. Gideon not knowing what Christopher told their mother provides more insight into Elizabeth. Whether you think she should have told Gideon what his younger brother said can be discussed.

I do not think she should tell Gideon.

Hi Betty,

Thank you for clarifying this for me.  I have read your comments and I wonder if you can correlate one subject with the other?

 

You are absolutely correct in that Gideon has sought out his enemies and has destroyed them?  Can Christopher Jr. be included in the bunch because of his actions as a child?  Do you think that Gideon would hold a grudge against his brother because of his actions as a child?  What do you think? 

[GiGi]

Hi Betty,

I read your comment and the question I have is; Is it fair to judge Christopher Jr. actions based on his age?  If you and the other forum members are correct; Christopher Jr. may or may not have been abused as a child as well; or may or may not have witnessed Gideon's abuse.  Is it fair to hold Christopher Jr. accountable for his actions and emotions as a child?

 

If Christopher Jr. has taken any emotional or physical trauma with him into adulthood, do you think that Gideon would seek to destroy his brother knowing what it is like to be a survivor of abuse himself?  What do you think?  What does everyone think? 

[MegansCoils]

I know this isn't directed to me but I'd like to say some thing because I do feel sorry for Monica and I feel the need to be "rational" in a way.

Hi Betty,

Eva's loyalties lay with herself.  Both parents; Monica and Victor, have been less than ideal for so many reasons.  We the readers are given so little information about Eva's relationship with her father during the early years.  Where was Victor?  Did he have visitation rights?  Did he see his daughter on a regular basis or did he just have the occasional phone call on birthday's and holidays?  What made Victor feel like he couldn't be a part of his daughter's life?

I would actually like to hear about this too. IDK where he was and I don't think the book mentions it either but I don't think Monica would really allow him to see her since she was such a social circle snob.

Monica on the other hand had primary physical custody and when she wasn't busy trying to snag a husband she wasn't paying attention to what was going on underneath her own household roof?  What's her deal?  How can she be considered a good mother? 

I wouldn't say that Monica is a "good" mother but she did the best she could. She divorced her husband, took the guy to court, did the best she knew how. I think she feels horrible that she was oblivious and that's why now she is the way she is now and extra cautious about Eva's wellbeing.

Another thing to consider; in 1461 days Monica NEVER checked; her daughter's bedsheets, underware (for blood), bathed her daughter or saw her daughter in her undergarments (which would be normal if a mother-daughter went shopping together and a mother was ACTIVELY involved in her daughter's life), never would have noticed ALL of the EMOTIONAL or PHYSICAL symptoms that her daughter must have been exhibiting, or her choice of pediatrician and annual examinations.  I am sure that parents have to take their children to the doctor, but not once in four years did anyone detect that something was wrong with Eva?

Monica seems TO ME to be the type of woman who is too involved with others idea of her to even notice things. Plus that husband had money so I highly doubt Monica was washing any sheets or underwear. I played sports and went through physicals every year so I can play and doctors never did a paps or any other genital exam.

Finally the point must be made about the household staff; who one earth did these people employ that could stand by and watch while Eva was being raped and tortured on a nearly daily basis?  In 1461 days, surely SOMEONE heard SOMETHING!!  When does it stop being everyone else's fault? 

Sometimes people don't want to tell. For all they knew it could have been the husband abusing her, that equals lost of a job. Sadly in the real world people will not speak up because they need a job. Sexual abuse typically happens in the middle of the night so everyone was asleep or something.

When is it Monica's turn to start accepting responsibility?

Maybe she has not verbally did it in the book but she's trying the best way she knows how, i.e fundraisers  putting tracking devices in Eva's belongings etc.

I'm pretty sure my "answers" are weak but I tried lol.

[BettyY37]

GiGi

You make a good case for why no parent should ever miss the abuse of their child especially when it occurs over such a long period of time. But Sylvia has chosen to present us in the character of Monica a women who failed to see the signs for whatever reason. She told us

Eva hide what was being done to her out of fear.

The servants (makers of beds and doers of laundry) did not tell.

Eva made her Monica promise to not tell Victor.

I have chosen to accept Sylvia's presentation of Monica's sacrifices and continuing pain regarding this failure to know sooner about the abuse of her only child. I try very hard when I read to not add things that are not there if they change the story. As you know I searched the books for attacks on Monica.

I can not use Victor's parental role except as described when she moved to SoCal and he did good because he found Dr Travis. He came when he heard about Nathan. Monica got Eva out of harms way as soon as the danger was known. Home security, tracking devices, armed chauffeur, remodeling Parker's gym...to the point of alienating her daughter trying to make-up and prevent problems in the future. That is what I have to work with so Monica comes out good but not perfect,

Things may change in books four and five but for now Monica is good.

[BettyY37]

Not ignoring any of the new posts but my Ace is calling. I will be back tomorrow.

[sscrph]

I know this isn't directed to me but I'd like to say some thing because I do feel sorry for Monica and I feel the need to be "rational" in a way.

I'm pretty sure my "answers" are weak but I tried lol.

As you can see from this it is hard to " rehabilitate " the character of Monica... She is what she is!!!

[sscrph]

MeganCoils

You and I are in the minority regarding Monica.  She definitely still carries serious scars regarding not protecting her daughter.  I also believe she did the best she could.  I also agree, Elizabeth does not appear to feel remorse for what happened to her child.

 

THOUGHT

Has anyone other than Eva and Cary seen Gideon's nightmares?

 

I would accept your possiblities for Christopher except his behavior toward Magdalene and his tendancy to lash out at Gideon in additon to what he told Eva at lunch make him seem like a young man who wants to hurt his brother.

 

I read that quote as saying Gideon identified a time and place.  Christopher was there but he contradicted Gideon and said nothing happened.

 

Christopher could have been abused by Hugh but if Hugh liked Gideon, his brother may have been too young. One important fact that is unknown at this time is how long did Gideon's abuse last.

I do not think anyone else has witnessed the nightmares according to Gideon's comment in RIY " of course you believe me Angel you've had to sleep in a bed with me..."

[BettyY37]

Gideon does not hug his mother at the garden party for Vidal Records but she is the only "person" who has been to his home other then Eva.

 

He is angry that she did not believe him when he told her about Hugh's abuse but he has not sought any revenge.  In fact, he helped Chris Vidal save his record company to provide support for her.

 

This indicates a man in conflict.   He does not at this time know his mother has threatened Eva so I foresee more personal conflict for Gideon.

 

I do not think Elizabeth believes her eldest son was sexually abused by his therapist as a child.  She has not seen any evidence.  Eva, however, saw the love she has for him.

 

Elizabeth must learn to accept her son and his wife.

[BettyY37]

I need help.  How do I insert posts in my response?

 

For MegansCoils

I think your points were well made yesterday.

 

 

Regarding Victor as a father

Eva says "he'd never wavered from his determination to be my dad in every way possible."  She also states she didn't get to spend a lot of time with her dad while she was growing up.

 

I think Victor's behavior regarding Eva from her late teens to the present has been exemplary.

[ShazScott1980]

I need help.  How do I insert posts in my response?

 

For MegansCoils

I think your points were well made yesterday.

 

 

Regarding Victor as a father

Eva says "he'd never wavered from his determination to be my dad in every way possible."  She also states she didn't get to spend a lot of time with her dad while she was growing up.

 

I think Victor's behavior regarding Eva from her late teens to the present has been exemplary.

Click on quote on the post you want to insert

[BettyY37]

Has anybody noticed all the significant women in Gideon's life before Eva resemble his mother?