GiGi

Great list Gaia and welcome to the forum!  Your suggestion of Cross and Garrity is an interesting one. It is intriguing! I also really like your idea of Shawna and Arnoldo! Who knows maybe Shawna's boyfriend will have some kind of culinary accident with a "Cuisinart" and Arnoldo will reunite. So many scenarios to chose from. Each one of them more delicious than the one before.Â

That may just be a plot twist in one of the upcoming books. I really hope it doesn't happen though.Â

Gideon Cross 56 Eva Tramell Reyes Cross 56 Victor Reyes 56 Monica Stanton 45+1=46 Cary Taylor 47 Ireland Vidal 47 Angus McLeod 38 Benjamin Clancy 39-1=38 Arnoldo Ricci 16 RIP List Nathan Barker RIP Gideon Cross Corinne Giroux R.I.P 02/07/2013 azmich Anne Lucas R.I.P. 06/07/2013 Rogue Tatiana Cherlin RIP 7/7/2013 shazScott1980 Deanna Johnson RIP 7/8/13 Barb55 Brett Kline RIP 7/11/13 Barb55 Terence Lucas RIP 7/12/2013 ShazScott1980 and GiGi too Sam Yimara RIP 7/12/2013 Rogue Christopher Vidal jr 7/15/2013 ShazScott1980 Jean Francois Giroux RIP 7/16/13 Barb55 Shelley Graves RIP 7/16/13 - jls1216 Richard Michna RIP 7/17/13 ShazScott1980 Daniel 7/21/12 ShazScott1980 Erik RIP 7/22/2013 Barb55 Magdalene RIP 7/24/2013 Barb55 Richard Stanton RIP 7/25/2013 Barb55 Lacey RIP 7/28/2013 azmich Christine Fields RIP 7/31/2013 azmich Michael Waters RIP 8/2/13 Barb55 Christopher Vidal Sr RIP 8/4/2013 Barb55 Walter Leaman RIP 8/6/2013 Barb55 Parker Smith RIP 8/17/2013 Barb55 Megumi RIP 8/21/2013 ShazScott1980 Dr Peterson RIP 8/22/2013 ShazScott1980 Scott (Gideon assistant) 08/23/2013 RIP Barb55 Shawna Ellison RIP 08/26/2013 Barb55 Elizabeth Cross Vidal 08/29/2013 ShazScott1980 Steven Ellison RIP 8/30/2013 Barb55 Mark Garrity RIP 9/4/2013 SharonM745 Martin Stanton RIP 9/6/2013 SharonM745 Dr. Travis RIP 9/9/2013 Sheens263 Trey RIP 9/13/2013 ShazScott1980 Â

Hi Betty, I think that we are at an impass. When I mentioned old time forum members what I meant was that we have approached several topics from so many angles that we have literally talked ourselves in circles. What you are saying has been stated, phrased or paraphrased in sentiment in one way or another over these past months (that is why I suggested that you might want to go back and take a look at the other postings).  When I mentioned the word "argument" I did not mean a heated exchange, but merely a discussion or a debate between two people (there is more than one definition of the word). I do not, or have not subscribed any emotion to you or your postings in any way. I do not know you, so there is no way that I would take something that you have written as a slight, or such. It is all good.  You are welcome to disagree with me any time you like and far be it from me, to make you change your mind. You are more than entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I did my best to try and keep my posts short (for you and the others) and I think that it may have caused some confusion inadvertently. We have spent many months on this topic and I didn't want t bombard you with a huge, honking long posts, but it seems that has not worked out for the best because you were not privy to the previous discussions and how I reached my conclusions about Monica, that I did.  So with that said, I am taking myself out of this discussion. I respect your right to your opinion. I have talked this issue to death and now will wait to hear what Monica's backstory is in books four and five.  GiGi

Beautiful lyrics Nathalia. I could see how parts from the song could apply to various aspects of their lives (Gideon and Eva) together.Â

Gideon Cross 56 Eva Tramell Reyes Cross 56 Victor Reyes 55 Monica Stanton 45+1=46 Cary Taylor 46 Ireland Vidal 47 Angus McLeod 40 Benjamin Clancy 40-1=39 Arnoldo Ricci 15     RIP List   Nathan Barker RIP Gideon Cross Corinne Giroux R.I.P 02/07/2013 azmich Anne Lucas R.I.P. 06/07/2013 Rogue Tatiana Cherlin RIP 7/7/2013 shazScott1980 Deanna Johnson RIP 7/8/13 Barb55 Brett Kline RIP 7/11/13 Barb55 Terence Lucas RIP 7/12/2013 ShazScott1980 and GiGi too Sam Yimara RIP 7/12/2013 Rogue Christopher Vidal jr 7/15/2013 ShazScott1980 Jean Francois Giroux RIP 7/16/13 Barb55 Shelley Graves RIP 7/16/13 - jls1216 Richard Michna RIP 7/17/13 ShazScott1980 Daniel 7/21/12 ShazScott1980 Erik RIP 7/22/2013 Barb55 Magdalene RIP 7/24/2013 Barb55 Richard Stanton RIP 7/25/2013 Barb55 Lacey RIP 7/28/2013 azmich Christine Fields RIP 7/31/2013 azmich Michael Waters RIP 8/2/13 Barb55 Christopher Vidal Sr RIP 8/4/2013 Barb55 Walter Leaman RIP 8/6/2013 Barb55 Parker Smith RIP 8/17/2013 Barb55 Megumi RIP 8/21/2013 ShazScott1980 Dr Peterson RIP 8/22/2013 ShazScott1980 Scott (Gideon assistant) 08/23/2013 RIP Barb55 Shawna Ellison RIP 08/26/2013 Barb55 Elizabeth Cross Vidal 08/29/2013 ShazScott1980 Steven Ellison RIP 8/30/2013 Barb55 Mark Garrity RIP 9/4/2013 SharonM745 Martin Stanton RIP 9/6/2013 SharonM745 Dr. Travis RIP 9/9/2013 Sheens263 Trey RIP 9/13/2013 ShazScott1980 Â

Good point Chiara.

Hi Betty, I have gone over all of your postings about this topic and I have to say that I am confused. The arguements presented only ask readers to presuppose and accept one interpretation of the facts. The arguements also require the average reader to suspend disbelief or any kind of common sense.  From my perspective, and healthcare background, that is not possible nor is it logical. There are several members in this forum from all different backgrounds; doctors, lawyers, psychologists, nurses, etc. and each and every single one of them approaches this book from different perspectives. Your logic dictates that they should put their life experiences and educational background aside and completely accept what has been written without question. That position does not allow for a balanced or logical arguement.  When an author writes about a subject as polarizing as sexual abuse and childhood neglect; it will always spark controversy. You mentioned in your arguement that we as readers have not been provided with facts and if it is not written in the pages of the book, that we cannot take that into consideration (my paraphrasing, not your exact words). Eva states she she was brutally raped and tortured too many times to count (again my paraphrasing not the exact words from the book, but I can find the exact page and reference if readers require this).  What was not mentioned were the actual physical symptoms and signs of; physical, sexual and emotional abuse. Your arguement would have us as the reader discount what would be common sense. Eva would have had bleeding and tearing of tissue (vaginal and rectal-as evidenced by vaginal and anal scarring). She would have had trouble sitting down, she would have had pain, discomfort, low grade fevers, difficulty urinating, having bowel movements, had social behaviour problems (which she did in her promiscuous actions, etc. as Eva mentioned herself in the books), could have had nightmares about sleeping alone, become needy, clingy etc. (if for no other reason than to try and avoid Nathan's attacks, etc.). If you go back and read the posts, you will see everything listed.  The exact signs and symptoms of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse were listed several times, for the forum members, but because it wasn't recorded in the book, that evidence cannot be considered. That is a fundamental flaw in a debate. Many of the points that have been presented are not up for debate.  We as the "old time" forum members have dedicated hundreds/thousands of hours to these exact topics, as has been evidenced by the thousands of posts and research that went along with them. Every "old time" member has their ideas about the book; and they are based on reading the material, discussing it amongst the members and by emailing/tweeting/attending Author conventions. Some members were lucky enough to discuss these issues with the author and received a first-hand account of what the author was thinking and why the wrote the material the way the did.  We as the readers will not have the opportunity to know everything until the last book is published. Until then, we will have to read the materials presented, use our common sense and apply our life skills and educational background to try and decifer the material in the meantime.  GiGiÂ

 Hi Betty, I have been thinking about this issue so much; mainly because it was such a hot topic of debate the first time around. I have to go back and look at all of my postings to perhaps compile a far more detailed answer which is what I was trying to avoid in the first place. Let me make just a few clarifications about my previous posting:  1. Whether childhood abuse goes undetected for long periods of time or not does not negate Monica's responsibility and her dropping the ball on recognizing the symptoms of childhood sexual abuse. I covered that topic extensively in several previous posts (including signs and symptoms...dozens and dozens and dozens of symptoms which Monica never took head of).  2. what I meant by the second point is that only for 5-7 years did Victor have any influence over his daughter. The influence was good (I have never disputed that), but one cannot discount his sporadic involvement during the first 18 years of Eva's life.  3. EVa's not having Victor's name has nothing to do with whether he is a good or bad parent. That is an issue between Monica and Vitor. To the best of my knowledge, I am not aware of any state in The US or in Canada that legally requires that a child that is born out of wedlock, is required to carry the father's last name. That is a priviledge granted to a married couple by law. The rest is an option that can be utilized by the mother if she wishes.  4. My point about Monica being Eva's friend and not her mother is simply that instead of making hard decisions that were in Eva's best interests, Eva acted more like the mother than Monica did. That kind of relationship between a mother and daughter when someone is young and has been emotionally damaged, is wrong. Monica needed to suck it up, shed her tears in the privacy of her own room and not burden her daughter. Have you noticed just how much Eva always tried to placate her mother, because of her guilt? Of all the people in this book; Eva should have zero guilt! It wasn't her fault. Eva didn't do anything wrong.  5. As far as Monica's guilt is concerned, I stated it before; she needs to suck it up and shut up! Her constant hystrionics are making Eva feel even more guilty about what happened to her. Monica needs to put on her big girl "Mommy Pants" and start telling her daughter that it isn't her fault, she did nothing wrong, and that she as a mother will work out her guilt issues and not put more pressure on her already fragile daughter.  6. It is so funny that you mention Vogue Magazine, because I have a subscription to several magazines for several years, and I have to been to a few European high society gala events in my 42 years of life.  I never saw anyone dressed like the way that dress was described; with a slit up the side of the thigh up to where...and a plunging backline to just above her tushie. I have my latest copies of Vogue, Instyle, and Vanity Fair, and I haven't seen anything like that either. As far as the Miss America pagent is concerned, I have never seen a slit up the side of the dress going up nearly to her private regions and I have never seen a backless dress that stopped just above her tushie, but perhaps I missed something.  7. As far as Monica's placement of legal tracking devices in Eva's compact and her watch; it is against the law. Monica was breaking the law and violating her very grown daughter's privacy. She didn't even have the courtesy to share her concerns with Eva and to offer Eva the option of accepting or not accepting protection. Let's remember that Eva isa grown woman who has the right to say no. Monica took away Eva's right to say no. That's not right.  8. When Nathan showed up with photos and video(s) of the rape and torture of Eva, Eva had every legal right to know. Eva was the childhood victim of violent crimes and Monica by proxy was were advocate. When Eva became an adult and Nathan showed up with all of the vile photos and video(s), Monica would have been considered to be in possession of childhood which is a criminal offense punishable by lengthy prison sentences. If Nathan crossed state lines, Monica could be held accountable as a accessory for distributing child p*** of her daughter.  The big thing is Monica would have seen what Nathan was capable of with her own two eyes. Why wouldn't she want to want her daughter that she may be in danger? Did Monica really believe that she could protect Eva from Nathan? Her track record suggests otherwise.  What does it say about said mother-daughter relationship when the mother cannot trust her already grown daughter to be able to make decisions about matters that affect her safety and welfare? How is Monica a good mother when she is keeping her daughter in the dark about the man who raped and tortured her for four years? What if Monica ran across Nathan on the street? Whom ever was supposed to be protecting Eva (and by proxy Cary because they were roommates), failed. Cary got attacked and whom ever was supposed to be following Nathan lost track of him. So how could Monica/Stanton/Clancy/etc. think that they could competently hide the fact that Nathan had come back into town? Did none of them think that Nathan wouldn't make a play for Eva?  9. Monica feigned ingornance at every single turn of the way. She knew that Nathan was back in town and said nothing to her daughter. Monica knew just how violent Nathan had been toward Eva as evidenced by the photos and vidoe(s) of Nathan's brutal tortures and rapes of Eva. Yet she never said anything to her adult daughter to warn her or protect or even bring her into the loop of what everyone was planning for her protection. No person in a position of power, that is required to have bodyguards, are ever kept out of the loop when it comes to their safety or protection.  When Nathan was murdered, Eva was left floating in the wind an had to find out from the police that Nathan was in town. She basically got ambushed. She questioned her mother about the whole Nathan thing and not once was her mother forthcoming about what had been going on. Only after a few conversations and direct questioning by Eva, did Monica divulge any information (scant information, I might add). Eva had every right to know. She was the victim, she was the adult, she was in danger. Yet everyone else decided that they knew better and didn't even given Eva the courtesy or the option to accept or decline help.  10. As far as the comment about doctor visits. Children have to been seen on an annual basis for a regular check-up and that would include the child being in their underware; in the presence of the nurse and the doctor. The child would also be just in their underware. The undershirt would be off, unless the female child would develop . Children need to be vaccinated and receive booster shots as well. If Eva had been examined, surely the pediatrician and nurse would have seen the marks on Eva' body.  If Eva had a urinary tract infection, then her genitals would have been examined. No there wouldn't been a full gynecological examination performed, but yes absolutely the doctor, with his nurse present would have seen the genital scarring. I spoke with a pediatrician and that is standard protocol in Canada. Doctors need to rule out any type of sexual abuse and as such a visual examination would have been required.  You mentioned that Monica had staff to her help her maintain her household and her child. That is not an excuse. If Monica chose to delegate said responsibilities then she is still responsible at the end of the day. She hired the staff; to cook, clean, do laundry, take Eva to the doctor's, watch over Eva, and if they said nothing that completely falls on Monica's shoulders. Monica is Eva's mother, not her staff.  The reference about the visit hospital wasn't a case of Monica noticing something was wrong, this was an emergency and as such was legally required to seek medical treatment. Monica would not have been allowed to return home with her daughter if she was going to continue to be in this marriage. She would have lost custody of her child. There is no interpretation on that point. I contacted CPS/Children's Aid Society in Canada, and given those circumstances, Monica was very lucky to not be criminally charged for her gross neglect of Eva. The courts couldn't care less whether a person; has a nanny, a maid, a babysitter, a chauffeur, etc. the responsibililty of the child rests soley on the parent(s).  I do not give Monica credit for something that was always supposed to be her responsibility. I have always been pro-victims rights and at the end of the day, I get very upset because of Monica's lack-a-dazical attitude towards her parenting of Eva. I really what Sylvia says will help me to understand this character and her actions better.  Thanks for taking the time to respond Betty. It is greatly appreciated, and it gives me the opportunity to understand your position better. Thanks for a lively debate over a disheartening topic.Â

Hi Everyone, I just finished reading the Kalypso Masters series. I have to say it was a fabulous read!! The material was real well researched and presented in a very respectful manner. If everyone gets a chance, they might want to give these books a read. Thanks for your suggestion ladies!  GiGiÂ

Hi Everyone, Here are the books from CD Reiss:  CD. Reiss Books: Songs Of Submission Series Beg Tease Submit Jessica And Sharon (Book 3.5) Control Burn Rachel (Book 5.5) Resist Cry (TBR…2013) Sing (TBR…2013)  GiGiÂ

Hi Sharon, Thank you for the suggestion. I have added it to the ever Updating Master List. Thanks again.  GiGiÂ

Hi AceGrossfire30, Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy yourself.Â

Great questions Fsumom! Now I have to sit and think...

Hi Alona Melad, Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy yourself.Â

Hi Christina Hart, Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy yourself.Â

Hi LovingGideon, Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy yourself.Â

Hi Betty, Thank you for your posting. You mentioned in another post that you are analytical. I am from a science background so I can see where you are coming from. Each perspective would look at the facts as presented and analyze said evidence until either a hypothesis or conclusion could be reached.  Thus far, since we are only into book three and waiting for book four, the are still in the hypothesis stage. Fact:  1. The case is made why Monica's parenting skills are being questioned with a strict eye. For four out of fourteen years, Monica dropped the ball. This does not take into consideration the other marriages and what the living conditions were like for Eva. That means, for at least close to one third of her of her life; Eva was severely neglected and abused. That is stated fact, and not open to interpretation. Being a parent means more than providing a roof over a child's head and food on the table.  2. Eva got closer to her father during her University days and he was instrumental in getting her into treatment, but nothing is mentioned about him during her early years. I cannot come to the conclusion that Victor is an explemplary parent based on those facts alone.    3. Monica keeping Eva's secret of the abuse was wrong. Victor is Eva's dad and would have every legal right to know what had happened to his daughter. Fact: If any information of this nature was revealed during a custody battle; Monica would have lost custodial rights of her child. Monica had no legal right to keep this from Victor.  4. Monica is Eva's mother; not her friend. Thus far, Monica has acted more like a friend and not a mother.  5. When Eva confessed her abuse to Gideon and Gideon contacted Stanton about what was being done as far as keeping the situation private, when Eva saw her mother for her counselling session, the first thing that Monica did was ask Eva why she told Gideon? In her completely histrionic state, Monica could only think about herself and not Eva..."how could you do this to me...?"  6. Monica sent Eva a completely inapropriate red dress during the first book for the charity gala. What mother would send her daughter such an incredibly revealing outfit to be worn? What does Monica hope to accomplish by "gifting" her daughter with that kind of dress.  7. Monica placed several tracking devices in Eva's personal belongings without her consent; her legal Adult Consent.  8. When Nathan was back in New York and had attempted to blackmail Stanton and Monica, Monica never mentioned this to Eva. Was she misguided in her attempt to protect Eva or was she arrogant enough to believe that she could violate her daughter's legal right to know about what was going on?  9. Monica saw the "evidence" of Nathan's brutilization, torture and rape(s) of Eva with her own eyes. Could Monica then turn around and feign "ignorance" about what Nathan was capable of?  10. When the police were investigating Nathan's murder, Monica never once volunteered that the police had come to see her. It was only after questioned and kept questioning her mother, the Monica finally and begrudgingly spoke with Eva about the Nathan murder investigation.  Could you please clarify what you mean by "attacks on Monica"? It would help greatly. Thanks in advane.  As a scientific person, I look at the evidence that has been presented thus far and the evidence points to the fact that Monica has been a lousy mother.  I don't know if Syliva could expect any of her viewers to accept a polyanna view of Monica's actions or gross misactions and expect a person to believe that she is a good mother.  I would never profess to speak for Sylvia, I can only speak for myself and thus far, with the evidence presented, Monica's mothering skills have not been good.

Hi Everyone, Could someone please refresh my memory; where exactly did Sylvia Day say that Monica is a good mother? If someone could post that information here, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.  GiGiÂ

Hi Megan, Thanks for the posting. You made a very good point that the abuse may have been occuring at night. I never considered that. I somehow thought that the majority of the abuse may have been occuring after school; a time when Nathan's father would have been working and Monica would have been outside of the home for whatever reasons (socializing, shopping etc.). So it is possible that at least some of the abuse occurred at night.  Now we wait until we hear Monica's story.Â

Gideon Cross 56 Eva Tramell Reyes Cross 56 Victor Reyes 55 Monica Stanton 44+1=45 Cary Taylor 46 Ireland Vidal 47 Angus McLeod 41 Benjamin Clancy 40 Arnoldo Ricci 15-1=14    RIP List    Nathan Barker RIP Gideon Cross Corinne Giroux R.I.P 02/07/2013 azmich Anne Lucas R.I.P. 06/07/2013 Rogue Tatiana Cherlin RIP 7/7/2013 shazScott1980 Deanna Johnson RIP 7/8/13 Barb55 Brett Kline RIP 7/11/13 Barb55 Terence Lucas RIP 7/12/2013 ShazScott1980 and GiGi too Sam Yimara RIP 7/12/2013 Rogue Christopher Vidal jr 7/15/2013 ShazScott1980 Jean Francois Giroux RIP 7/16/13 Barb55 Shelley Graves RIP 7/16/13 - jls1216 Richard Michna RIP 7/17/13 ShazScott1980 Daniel 7/21/12 ShazScott1980 Erik RIP 7/22/2013 Barb55 Magdalene RIP 7/24/2013 Barb55 Richard Stanton RIP 7/25/2013 Barb55 Lacey RIP 7/28/2013 azmich Christine Fields RIP 7/31/2013 azmich Michael Waters RIP 8/2/13 Barb55 Christopher Vidal Sr RIP 8/4/2013 Barb55 Walter Leaman RIP 8/6/2013 Barb55 Parker Smith RIP 8/17/2013 Barb55 Megumi RIP 8/21/2013 ShazScott1980 Dr Peterson RIP 8/22/2013 ShazScott1980 Scott (Gideon assistant) 08/23/2013 RIP Barb55 Shawna Ellison RIP 08/26/2013 Barb55 Elizabeth Cross Vidal 08/29/2013 ShazScott1980 Steven Ellison RIP 8/30/2013 Barb55 Mark Garrity RIP 9/4/2013 SharonM745 Martin Stanton RIP 9/6/2013 SharonM745 Dr. Travis RIP 9/9/2013 Sheens263 Trey RIP 9/13/2013 ShazScott1980 Â

Hi Betty, I read your comment and the question I have is; Is it fair to judge Christopher Jr. actions based on his age? If you and the other forum members are correct; Christopher Jr. may or may not have been abused as a child as well; or may or may not have witnessed Gideon's abuse. Is it fair to hold Christopher Jr. accountable for his actions and emotions as a child?  If Christopher Jr. has taken any emotional or physical trauma with him into adulthood, do you think that Gideon would seek to destroy his brother knowing what it is like to be a survivor of abuse himself? What do you think? What does everyone think?Â

Hi Betty, Thank you for clarifying this for me. I have read your comments and I wonder if you can correlate one subject with the other?  You are absolutely correct in that Gideon has sought out his enemies and has destroyed them? Can Christopher Jr. be included in the bunch because of his actions as a child? Do you think that Gideon would hold a grudge against his brother because of his actions as a child? What do you think?Â

Hi Betty & Everyone, It has occurred to me that while I have been busily stating why I feel that Monica is not a good mother, no one has come forward to state why they believe that Monica is a good mother? What makes Monica a good mother in your opinion? It would be nice to hear what everyone's opinions and comments are on this subject. Thanks.Â

Hi Agoodbook, The question would be; who beat up Megumi? Do you have any thoughts or ideas?