Have you ever considered Mr. Barker?

[sscrph]

Hi All I am a new member and so enjoy all your insights but I think we should consider Nathan's dad as a possible suspect. He may have finally had enough of his son's baggage and needed a way out . And wouldn't it be just like Gideon to let Eva believe he killed Nathan so he could see whether she still loved him after knowing what he did? In the excerpt he says "what I did" leaving Eva to assume he killed Nathan but maybe he actually means dropping her with no explanation etc . What do you all think?

[AMC]

Whoa! Never thought of Nathan's dad---but that is a really interesting point!!

[ShazScott1980]

I've never thought about the fact it could have been him.

That's a curved ball thrown in for us to debate.

Maybe when Gideon went to Stanton about Nathan he (stanton) got intouch with Mr Barker for Nathan's whereabouts

Nathan was dead to him and maybe he thought he'd do the job for real.

Thinking he wouldn't be a suspect if Stanton and Gideon we looking for Nathan .

[jls1216]

Why would Gideon pretend to leave Eva then? I thought the only reason for their separation was for an alibi. 

[sscrph]

He would still pretend to leave Eva because Nathan was escalating and maybe that would calm him down a bit. Also maybe Gideon was planning to kill Nathan but Mr. Barker got there first.

[Bookworm]

I d

[Bookworm]

I don't think Mr. Barker killed Nathan. Gideon maybe was in cahoots with Monica. Someone mentioned this a while back.

[ShazScott1980]

It's good to speculate and think wo else could have killed Nathan

I mentioned before that I thought Gideon was in cahoots with Monica .

Nathan opened the door of the hotel room which I doubt he would have done if it was Gideon at the other side when he would have checked the peep hole.

I believe that Gideon took the opportunity to help Monica it was his hotel he would have known about the CCTV being down.

He would know the quickest way to get out .

I think Monica did the deed but Gideon was the clean up guy.

He'd started to pull away from Eva publicly after Cary's attack

i wonder if he was possibly hoping that if Nathan thought they had split then he'd back off .

But something else must have happened Monica wanting to take action.

Both of them had. Chat at the hospital on Monday while Eva freshened up and poke with Cary .

What did thy talk about?

[LN Cronan]

Even Detective Graves thinks Gideon immediately let himself get photographed with Corrine in order to fool Nathan into thinking he (Gideon) had backed away from Eva. It was on Monday (the day he found out who attacked Cary) Gideon took Corrine out to dinner and manipulated the tabloids into making a big deal - "Gideon Cross and Former Fiancee!!!" Pictures were all over the Internet by the next morning, where Nathan the Stalker would have surely seen them.

 

I think Gideon spent Monday and most of Tuesday having his people investigate from every last angle. By then, I'm sure the list of options Gideon already had in his head including killing Nathan. But he had a meeting at his apartment on Tuesday night, and whatever he learned then sealed Nathan's fate. So Gideon threw together a plan to make that happen within the next 48 hours.

 

On Wednesday, he put into place something very crucial - getting Cary brought home from the hospital so that Cary would be with Eva on Thursday night as part of Eva's alibi. I'll bet that same day, Gideon arranged his own alibi: had his PR people schedule the party, including making sure press got invited. Then he asked Corrine to go with him.

 

"It has to be this way" he told Eva sometime in the middle of the night between Wednesday and Thursday as he made love to her. Nathan was going to die Thursday evening, and Gideon's plan for getting away with the murder was going to involve deliberately hurting Eva. Hurt her as part of his own cover -- but also hurt her in order to protect her from ever being accused of being involved in Nathan's murder, if he (Gideon) got caught.

 

I'm convinced Gideon himself did the deed, but I don't think he acted alone. My own theory is Angus was an accomplice. However, I am open to the idea that Monica and/or Stanton may have been accessories to the plot,   especially accessories "after the fact" -- meaning they're helping to cover up the crime. It's even possible that while Gideon and Eva had been away for the weekend the attack on Cary happened, that Monica and Stanton found out first Nathan had done it, and it was the pair of them who alerted Gideon and his security people on Monday.

[LN Cronan]

That said, I wonder if Monica's first husband is someone we're also going to meet in Entwined. The cops did go to talk to him, and if Detective Graves is to be believed, the guy wasn't the least bit sorry Nathan was dead. Why would he be? Nathan raped Mr. Barker's own stepdaughter, someone I'm sure Barker loved since she had been a little girl. Certainly, Barker loved Monica very much and was heartbroken Monica divorced him. Plus Nathan's crimes cost Barker $7 million dollars -- a $2 million dollar divorce settlement with Monica herself plus $5 million dollars in damages paid to Monica on Eva's behalf.

 

If Mr. Barker did have anything to do with the recent past, I'm sure Eva (and thus we readers) will find out. Because she is owed very honest explanations from Monica, Stanton and Gideon. The three of them keeping quiet could have gotten her killed, nearly did get Cary killed and almost destroyed her love for Gideon.

[GiGi]

Hi Sscrph,

Welcome to the forum. I read your posting and what is your theory about why Mr. Barker committed the murder of his own son? It is a huge step for a parent to kill their own child. It doesn’t seem to matter to most parents, what their children do. I think that would be evidenced by all the visitors (mostly moms, dads and children of the inmates) going to their local prisons on Saturday afternoons.

Now we all know that Nathan was exceptionally sick (scummy), but I would find it a stretch that Mr. Barker could leap from being a dad (a disgusted one at that, but still a dad) to being a killer. What does everyone think?

[LN Cronan]

Barker supposedly disinherited Nathan years ago. But does Barker know about some of the things that Nathan had been up to during the eight year gap between when Eva saw Nathan for the last time in a courtroom and Nathan ending up dead in New York City?

 

I think Barker might be able to fill in some of the gaps between that time -- and maybe he did just that for Gideon, Stanton, Monica and/or the cops. Among the possible things Barker might have known and revealed to anyone asking recently (cops, Gideon, Stanton, Monica) are:

 

• Did Nathan spend some of those eight years locked up in mental hospitals because was crazy? Had he only recently be released?
• Had Nathan continued to be suspected of raping other girls/women, but it never went to court (either because the cops couldn't prove it or the victims refused to testify)?
• Was Nathan somehow incredibly desperate for money and his father was still flatly refusing to give him a penny -- and so this was a big reason why Nathan went to New York to go after Eva's rich mother and even richer boyfriend soon after he learned Eva was in the news for dating a celebrity?

[GiGi]

Hi LNCronan,

What could Mr. Barker possibly know that would make him want to kill his own son? I think the only scenario that I could possibly see is if Barker himself had more than one child and Nathan killed his brother or sister. Then I could see a parent possibly snapping and killing their other child.

I could Mr. Barker keeping an eye of Nathan all those years while he was still cleaning up after his son’s messes, but once he disowned his own son, I am not sure if he would want the painful reminder of why he no longer has a relationship with his child, unless Nathan completely snapped and threatened to kill his own father. Then I think it would be important to Mr. Barker to keep track of his son, if for no other reason than for his own personal safety.

I don’t personally see Monica and her ex-husband being in communication throughout the years. I would think that seeing or talking to him would have brought up very painful reminders of what a lousy parent Monica had been and what a terrible father Barker had been to create a child like that. If anything I could see Monica resenting Mr. Barker for having a son like that and for his son inflicted all that hurt and pain on her child. My thought is that it would be easier to blame Mr. Barker and his parenting skills than for Monica to look at her own neglectful ways in that situation.

Why would Mr. Barker hunt down Gideon? How would he know that Nathan had any contact with Gideon? I would also think that the terms of the settlement would prevent Mr. Barker from contacting anyone about this issue what so ever. If Mr. Barker didn’t have any prior association, how would he initiate contact with Gideon? Or is it your theory that Gideon hunted down Mr. Barker? Even still, Mr. Barker would be prevented from discussing anything with Gideon. If Mr. Barker hadn’t had contact with Nathan for years then he may very well not know what his son is up to. I also don’t think that Mr. Barker would knowingly say anything to Gideon that would precipitate Nathan’s murder. At the end of the day, Nathan is still his son and blood is thicker than water.

[LN Cronan]

Hi GiGi

 

I don't think for a minute that Barker had any hand in the murder. Nor did he approach anyone willingly. The cops most definitely approached him, not the other way around. I had been speculating about possible things he might have known about that he could have shared with the police willingly and may have been persuaded to share with Monica, Stanton and/or Gideon, had any of them approached him earlier to let him know Nathan was trying to blackmail them with child p*** images of Eva.

 

Of the three, I think Monica is the most likely one who would have approached him, and if there's anyone he would have spoken to, it would have been her. The confidential court settlement had been with Monica herself, so Barker was absolutely free to speak with her, the other party in the settlement. Plus, given what Nathan had done, Barker might have been willing to help Monica anyway he could. Barker still loved Monica when she left him because of what happened to Eva.

[GiGi]

Hi ShazScott1980,

I agree with you. I think that Monica had something to do with Nathan’s murder. If Gideon did anything, he probably helped to clean up or set up the murder scene after the deed was done.

As I stated in other postings I agree that Monica was used most likely as bait to get Nathan to open the door. I don’t think that Nathan would have opened the door for anyone else. Gideon kicked his butt earlier in the day so I doubt that he would have invited him in for round two.

I too wonder what if anything Gideon and Monica had to talk about when Carey was in the hospital. Monica didn’t make the arrangements for Eva to stay with Carey and Monica only had to ask Eva about her plans as far as everything is concerned. So again that leaves so many open ended questions for the reader. :)

[GiGi]

 

Even Detective Graves thinks Gideon immediately let himself get photographed with Corrine in order to fool Nathan into thinking he (Gideon) had backed away from Eva. It was on Monday (the day he found out who attacked Cary) Gideon took Corrine out to dinner and manipulated the tabloids into making a big deal - "Gideon Cross and Former Fiancee!!!" Pictures were all over the Internet by the next morning, where Nathan the Stalker would have surely seen them.

 

I think Gideon spent Monday and most of Tuesday having his people investigate from every last angle. By then, I'm sure the list of options Gideon already had in his head including killing Nathan. But he had a meeting at his apartment on Tuesday night, and whatever he learned then sealed Nathan's fate. So Gideon threw together a plan to make that happen within the next 48 hours.

 

On Wednesday, he put into place something very crucial - getting Cary brought home from the hospital so that Cary would be with Eva on Thursday night as part of Eva's alibi. I'll bet that same day, Gideon arranged his own alibi: had his PR people schedule the party, including making sure press got invited. Then he asked Corrine to go with him.

 

"It has to be this way" he told Eva sometime in the middle of the night between Wednesday and Thursday as he made love to her. Nathan was going to die Thursday evening, and Gideon's plan for getting away with the murder was going to involve deliberately hurting Eva. Hurt her as part of his own cover -- but also hurt her in order to protect her from ever being accused of being involved in Nathan's murder, if he (Gideon) got caught.

 

I'm convinced Gideon himself did the deed, but I don't think he acted alone. My own theory is Angus was an accomplice. However, I am open to the idea that Monica and/or Stanton may have been accessories to the plot,   especially accessories "after the fact" -- meaning they're helping to cover up the crime. It's even possible that while Gideon and Eva had been away for the weekend the attack on Cary happened, that Monica and Stanton found out first Nathan had done it, and it was the pair of them who alerted Gideon and his security people on Monday.

 

Hi LNCronan,

I don’t think that Nathan went to Gideon to get him to back away from Eva; I think he went there to scare Gideon into handing over the cash first and foremost. If Gideon happened to leave Eva in the process then that would just be a bonus. If Gideon left Eva then Nathan would lose any future leverage. He wouldn’t have anyone to blackmail in the future. It could be assumed that if any one of the players paid Nathan’s blackmail, then Nathan would eventually have come back for the second or third or fourth, etc. payoff.

What I find most interesting is that somewhere along the line, someone dropped the ball. Either Gideon knew that Nathan was in town and had his security team following Nathan and they dropped the ball or they didn’t know Nathan’s whereabouts and by not knowing the ball got dropped again.

If Monica was planning to kill Nathan herself, then she dropped the ball by losing tack of Nathan’s movements and Carey got hurt as a result. If on the other hand, Monica trusted Gideon to keep Eva safe; then she dropped the ball by allowing another human being to protect her daughter and not keeping her own child in the loop as to the threat against her. Again in this scenario Carey suffered as a result.

[GiGi]

 

That said, I wonder if Monica's first husband is someone we're also going to meet in Entwined. The cops did go to talk to him, and if Detective Graves is to be believed, the guy wasn't the least bit sorry Nathan was dead. Why would he be? Nathan raped Mr. Barker's own stepdaughter, someone I'm sure Barker loved since she had been a little girl. Certainly, Barker loved Monica very much and was heartbroken Monica divorced him. Plus Nathan's crimes cost Barker $7 million dollars -- a $2 million dollar divorce settlement with Monica herself plus $5 million dollars in damages paid to Monica on Eva's behalf.

 

If Mr. Barker did have anything to do with the recent past, I'm sure Eva (and thus we readers) will find out. Because she is owed very honest explanations from Monica, Stanton and Gideon. The three of them keeping quiet could have gotten her killed, nearly did get Cary killed and almost destroyed her love for Gideon.

 

Hi LNCronan,

I hope that we don’t meet Monica’s first husband in the next book. Somehow I don’t think that Mr. Barker would anything of value to add to the storyline. I think it would be fair to say that Nathan was despicable and no one is sad about his demise. That being said, I don’t know how Sylvia would able to make Mr. Barkers contributions about how terrible Nathan was, important.

I also think that whatever love or fondness Monica may have had towards Mr. Barker would have been long gone by now. I think that Nathan would have ruined any fond memories she may have had toward the man. Those memories would have been replaced with graphic evidence of Eva’s repeated and brutal rapes and her miscarriage.

If Mr. Barker had any memories of Eva and Monica they would have been replaced with bitter memories of his son ruining his happiness, his loss of a wife and step-daughter and then finally a seven million dollar loss as a result of his delinquent son’s terrible behaviour. I think it would also remind Mr. Barker about how he failed as a parent.

[GiGi]

 

Hi GiGi

 

I don't think for a minute that Barker had any hand in the murder. Nor did he approach anyone willingly. The cops most definitely approached him, not the other way around. I had been speculating about possible things he might have known about that he could have shared with the police willingly and may have been persuaded to share with Monica, Stanton and/or Gideon, had any of them approached him earlier to let him know Nathan was trying to blackmail them with child p*** images of Eva.

 

Of the three, I think Monica is the most likely one who would have approached him, and if there's anyone he would have spoken to, it would have been her. The confidential court settlement had been with Monica herself, so Barker was absolutely free to speak with her, the other party in the settlement. Plus, given what Nathan had done, Barker might have been willing to help Monica anyway he could. Barker still loved Monica when she left him because of what happened to Eva.

 

Hi LNCronan,

No worries, we are just discussing theories here. I don’t think that Monica would have contacted Mr. Barker for any reason. I just think that whole situation would have been one very ugly painful reminder of the past and of her personal failings.

Strangely enough, I don’t think that Mr. Barker would have willingly helped the police. I think that he would have stone walled them. He most likely would have used the “I disowned my son years ago and washed my hands of him…†line. Nathan may have done many terrible things in his life, but he was still Mr. Barker’s son and at the end of the day he would have been a grieving father and he would have been devastated for many reasons. He failed to raise a good moral upright child (he may have blamed himself on some level for how Nathan turned out), his child wreaked havoc on his personal life and on the lives of others that he loved and physically and emotionally hurt many people….ah the list goes on and on but at the end of the day, Mr. Barker still lost a child (in a very violent way). One only needs to look at all the grieving families of inmates that have been put to death. At the end of the day, these criminals were still their children.

I don’t think that Monica would have thought that Nathan had videos and photos of his crimes and thus none of this would have been noted in the confidential settlement. I think that if any of this type of evidence was present when the lot of them was going to trial, I think that Mr. Barker would have absolutely destroyed any such evidence. Monica would have made sure of that. I also don’t know why Monica would have a reason to contact her ex-husband about this issue. I would think that Monica would have been well aware of the stress and strain that this put on Mr. Barker’s relationship with his son. As such I don’t think that he would have been in a position to help Monica.

[MrsCrossfire]

Why would Gideon pretend to leave Eva then? I thought the only reason for their separation was for an alibi. 

He could still need an alibi,what if he help plan it.?!?

[GiGi]

 

He could still need an alibi,what if he help plan it.?!?

 

Hi MrsCrossfire,

You are right. Whom ever helped plan and or execute Nathan's murder would need an alibi. None of these characters would want to be on the "hook" for the murder.

[LN Cronan]

Leaving Eva is separate from the alibi. Leaving her is his cover for the motive side of the criminal case. The alibi is for the opportunity side.

 

The prosecution would need to persuade a jury beyond reasonable doubt of two legal elements to get a murder conviction: motive and opportunity (the latter means a defendant could actually be at the crime scene and have the means -- like a weapon -- to commit the killing.)

 

The police allege Gideon's motive was Nathan had become a danger to Eva's life and he loves Eva so much he killed Nathan to stop Nathan from ever being able to harm Eva. Gideon left Eva and fooled everyone into thinking he resumed his old relationship with Corrine, doing this while Nathan was still very much alive. This was the part of the plan to prevent a prosecutor from being able to establish he had motive -- why would he kill a guy over some now-ex girlfriend he didn't want.

 

The alibi he set up was to deal with the opportunity side of the case. This was to try to fool the cops into thinking there was no way he went near Nathan that night -- during the window of a couple of hours when Nathan died, Gideon was somewhere else, a party, and there were witnesses at the party to prove he was there. In fact, Gideon went above and beyond by making sure the press got a photo of him at the party. 

[AMC]

"And the security cameras in the building just happened to be down for an upgrade that's been in the works for several months." -Detective Graves

Question: How did Gideon steer Nathan to THIS hotel?

[LN Cronan]

"And the security cameras in the building just happened to be down for an upgrade that's been in the works for several months." -Detective Graves

Question: How did Gideon steer Nathan to THIS hotel?

 

Excellent question -- one I hope we readers learn the answer to when Gideon finally has a long overdue talk with Eva about everything he'd concealed from her the prior three weeks, including the murder itself. Now that she knows about it and still plans to be with him anyway, no longer is there a need to lie by omission.

[GiGi]

Barker supposedly disinherited Nathan years ago. But does Barker know about some of the things that Nathan had been up to during the eight year gap between when Eva saw Nathan for the last time in a courtroom and Nathan ending up dead in New York City?

 

I think Barker might be able to fill in some of the gaps between that time -- and maybe he did just that for Gideon, Stanton, Monica and/or the cops. Among the possible things Barker might have known and revealed to anyone asking recently (cops, Gideon, Stanton, Monica) are:

 

• Did Nathan spend some of those eight years locked up in mental hospitals because was crazy? Had he only recently be released?
• Had Nathan continued to be suspected of raping other girls/women, but it never went to court (either because the cops couldn't prove it or the victims refused to testify)?
• Was Nathan somehow incredibly desperate for money and his father was still flatly refusing to give him a penny -- and so this was a big reason why Nathan went to New York to go after Eva's rich mother and even richer boyfriend soon after he learned Eva was in the news for dating a celebrity?

  

Hi LNCronan,

You bring up some interesting points.  I think in the end what the reader knows for sure is:

1. Where ever Nathan was; he had time to stew about what had happened to him (i.e. more importantly who had put him there…Eva…and her mother).
2. Nathan would have had time to build his hatred of Eva and her mother.
3. Nathan would have had the opportunity to perfect his crimes of choice; rape and torture (perhaps on other victims, etc. if he was still a free man).
4. Nathan may have been exposed to other criminals through a juvenile detention setting and thus would have had time and the opportunity to figure out how to perfect his crimes of choice (i.e. not leaving evidence of witnesses behind next time). 
5. Given Nathan’s hatred of Eva, he may have begun stalking her and tracking her movements.  In the early days I am sure that Nathan wouldn’t have had anything really substantial to go on, but Nathan had time and lots of it.  So eventually Nathan hit the jackpot, Eva was mentioned in the society section of the newspapers.

I think that if Nathan had been locked up for his crimes against Eva (in a mental institution or in juvenile hall), then Monica would have been privy to that kind of information.  She would have been there during the proceedings against Nathan during the civil litigation.  I don’t think that Nathan would have wound up in Juvenile Hall.  To me that reeks of a criminal conviction.  Civil litigation would have entailed punitive damages which were awarded to Eva (five million dollars more specifically).

 

Nathan may have wound up in Juvenile Hall over other crimes, but that is strictly speculation.  We the readers have no information about Nathan, only that after eight years he resurfaced and was looking for Eva.  It appears that he had quite an axe to grind with her.   In the end he is the one who got “axedâ€.  I just couldn’t resist…sigh!

[GiGi]

"And the security cameras in the building just happened to be down for an upgrade that's been in the works for several months." -Detective Graves

Question: How did Gideon steer Nathan to THIS hotel?

 Hi AMC,

That is a good question.  I certainly would like to know the answer to that question.  Thus far in our cumulative speculations, many have felt that Gideon was having Nathan followed.  If that is the case then when did the security detail start following Nathan and when exactly did Nathan show up on Gideon's radar (of sorts)?

 

One question always seems to lead to another...it is never ending.  Maybe Sylvia will be kind and throw us a snippet or two about our ponderings...sigh!