Have you ever considered Mr. Barker?

[Kirsten]

I was on vacation so I am just catching up. There is no way I can see anyone other then Gideon (maybe with the help of Angus, Monica and Stanton) doing this. There would be no reason for him to spend all that time apart from Eva if he wasn't somehow involved. It just doesn't make sense.

[GiGi]

Kirsten, on 02 Apr 2013 - 03:48, said:

I was on vacation so I am just catching up. There is no way I can see anyone other then Gideon (maybe with the help of Angus, Monica and Stanton) doing this. There would be no reason for him to spend all that time apart from Eva if he wasn't somehow involved. It just doesn't make sense.

[GiGi]

It will be so interesting to see how Sylvia ties up all these storylines. Thus far we all seem to be tying ourselves up into knots trying to figure this entire situation out. Ok, so maybe I am tying mysel into knots here. I just don't think that everything is as straight forward as it appears. I almost think that it would be too easy. What do you think? :)

[jls1216]

I agree with you Kirsten. I think Gideon is involved somehow.

[ShazScott1980]

I'm thinking that it could be Angus .

The detective tells Eva cross doesn't hire the job out but Angus wouldn't be hired out.

Also Angus would never betray Gideon .

I'm for it being a wild card character that kills Nathan .

It's a romance story not a crime thriller the little time as possible being spent on Nathan death is good for me!

[LN Cronan]

I'm thinking that it could be Angus .

The detective tells Eva cross doesn't hire the job out but Angus wouldn't be hired out.

Also Angus would never betray Gideon .

I'm for it being a wild card character that kills Nathan .

It's a romance story not a crime thriller the little time as possible being spent on Nathan death is good for me!

 

Shaz, I've always believed Angus was an accessory. But I'm starting to formulate now some alternate theories that maybe Angus was the killer and Gideon the accessory. Tomorrow or later this week, I'll get around to laying out my alternate theories.

 

Mind you, I still think Gideon did it. But as I explore my thoughts on how Angus may have helped, I'll see where this leads me into possible avenues of Angus being the one wielding the knife and yet Gideon still in it up to his eyeballs. Gideon most definitely was closely involved somehow -- why else would he put Eva through weeks of living h***. The only explanation is Gideon did in fact have serious tracks of his own to cover.

[Kirsten]

I agree LN and Shaz, I feel like Angus has been involved. He's been the only constant "friend" to Gideon, maybe even like a father figure.

[Donnad]

Angus would be his only real confidante.

[LN Cronan]

Even if Gideon didn't wield the knife himself, he nonetheless was up to his eyeballs in the murder plan.

 

Detective Graves concluded Gideon hadn't hired a hit man, so Graves decided Gideon must have done it himself. But what if Angus, who also was up to his eyeballs in the plans to protect Eva, decided together with Gideon that the only way to absolutely guarantee Eva's safety was to eliminate Nathan for good. So together, Gideon and Angus decided that Angus, who after all is a trained bodyguard, would do the deed itself, while Gideon was a close accomplice in covering both their tracks. If the cops eliminated Gideon from the suspect list right away, there would be little to no reason to investigate Angus.

 

Since childhood, Gideon has trusted Angus like no one else. What if this is because Angus all those years ago, took the law into his own hands in order to eliminate the problem of the child rapist preying on Gideon? Gideon's own mother refused to believe Gideon was being abused. What if Angus decided he couldn't trust the "system" (including the police) to put a stop to the abuse -- so Angus decided to do it himself. 

 

Hmmmmmm? After all, this is what happened years later. Gideon didn't go to the police when he figured out Nathan was a danger to Eva's life. He had plenty of ammo to send Nathan to prison for a very long time: attempted extortion (the blackmail), assault and battery with a dangerous weapon (Cary's beating) and most of all, possession of child p*** (the rape photos and video of Eva.) But Gideon decided instead to take the law into his own hands in order to put a stop to Nathan.

 

Not that I'm saying Angus necessarily murdered Gideon's rapist. That would have been a revenge killing, something I can't see Angus doing. Angus probably did do something especially nasty to the guy, though, to make sure the guy never went near Gideon again. Then Angus started working with his young charge to start teaching Gideon self-defense/fighting and how to channel anger.

 

Nathan's murder was NOT revenge killing, that much is clear. It was a form of justifiable homicide to save someone else's life. Gideon obviously very meticulously planned the whole thing out, so legally he's just as guilty, even if he himself didn't hold the knife. But if Angus did it, Gideon needs to protect Angus as well by trying to get the cops to just drop the whole matter instead of continuing to dig harder.

 

Who knows what Angus' background had been prior to working as a private bodyguard -- however, most top-notch private security folks come to the private sector after leaving the military or the police force. If Angus had been some sort of special forces opp guy, he'd have extensive training in how to kill people quickly and very quietly. If Angus was a former cop, he'd know a lot about how forensic evidence is gathered at scenes, so Angus would know types of things to avoid doing. Like going any further into that room than necessary -- take Nathan down at the door. Plus know it would be vital for Gideon to have an alibi for several hours on either side of the estimated time of death the medical examiner would determine.

[Kirsten]

Even if Gideon didn't wield the knife himself, he nonetheless was up to his eyeballs in the murder plan.

 

Detective Graves concluded Gideon hadn't hired a hit man, so Graves decided Gideon must have done it himself. But what if Angus, who also was up to his eyeballs in the plans to protect Eva, decided together with Gideon that the only way to absolutely guarantee Eva's safety was to eliminate Nathan for good. So together, Gideon and Angus decided that Angus, who after all is a trained bodyguard, would do the deed itself, while Gideon was a close accomplice in covering both their tracks. If the cops eliminated Gideon from the suspect list right away, there would be little to no reason to investigate Angus.

 

Since childhood, Gideon has trusted Angus like no one else. What if this is because Angus all those years ago, took the law into his own hands in order to eliminate the problem of the child rapist preying on Gideon? Gideon's own mother refused to believe Gideon was being abused. What if Angus decided he couldn't trust the "system" (including the police) to put a stop to the abuse -- so Angus decided to do it himself. 

 

Hmmmmmm? After all, this is what happened years later. Gideon didn't go to the police when he figured out Nathan was a danger to Eva's life. He had plenty of ammo to send Nathan to prison for a very long time: attempted extortion (the blackmail), assault and battery with a dangerous weapon (Cary's beating) and most of all, possession of child p*** (the rape photos and video of Eva.) But Gideon decided instead to take the law into his own hands in order to put a stop to Nathan.

 

Not that I'm saying Angus necessarily murdered Gideon's rapist. That would have been a revenge killing, something I can't see Angus doing. Angus probably did do something especially nasty to the guy, though, to make sure the guy never went near Gideon again. Then Angus started working with his young charge to start teaching Gideon self-defense/fighting and how to channel anger.

 

Nathan's murder was NOT revenge killing, that much is clear. It was a form of justifiable homicide to save someone else's life. Gideon obviously very meticulously planned the whole thing out, so legally he's just as guilty, even if he himself didn't hold the knife. But if Angus did it, Gideon needs to protect Angus as well by trying to get the cops to just drop the whole matter instead of continuing to dig harder.

 

Who knows what Angus' background had been prior to working as a private bodyguard -- however, most top-notch private security folks come to the private sector after leaving the military or the police force. If Angus had been some sort of special forces opp guy, he'd have extensive training in how to kill people quickly and very quietly. If Angus was a former cop, he'd know a lot about how forensic evidence is gathered at scenes, so Angus would know types of things to avoid doing. Like going any further into that room than necessary -- take Nathan down at the door. Plus know it would be vital for Gideon to have an alibi for several hours on either side of the estimated time of death the medical examiner would determine.

 

I agree LN. I feel like Angus is in on the whole thing. I don't know if he was the one with the knife or not, but certainly Gideon and he planned and executed this together. I found it very odd (telling honestly, IMO)  that Raul came to pick Eva up on Friday morning to take her to get Victor, and not Angus. It was the only time Angus was not "keeping a protective eye" on Eva.

[sscrph]

Kirsten you make a good point about Raul being sent to pick up Eva on Friday morning because it seems Angus is usually assigned to her protection

[LN Cronan]

I agree LN. I feel like Angus is in on the whole thing. I don't know if he was the one with the knife or not, but certainly Gideon and he planned and executed this together. I found it very odd (telling honestly, IMO)  that Raul came to pick Eva up on Friday morning to take her to get Victor, and not Angus. It was the only time Angus was not "keeping a protective eye" on Eva.

 

I think Gideon and Angus were one another's alibi for the rest of the night after the party at the f*** hotel. 

 

It would have been too risky for Gideon to simply go home right after the party. A two-hour window of time of death is the best guess a medical examiner can make when a dead body is found hours after the person is killed. Thus Gideon needed a longer alibi than just the 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. window of when the party took place. To be absolutely safe, he should have made sure he was never alone starting that afternoon at work and continuing into the wee hours of the next morning. So after the party, he might have gone somewhere by having Angus drive him.

 

Angus was part of Eva's own alibi for Thursday. She spent all afternoon at work, then Angus picked her up, drove her directly to Dr. Petersen's office (for the couples therapy appointment Gideon blew off) then drove her right home. Cary was home from the hospital recuperating, including a visiting nurse right there, so Eva was never alone all night. The next morning, Eva left her apartment before 5 a.m. to go pick up her Dad at LaGuardia. Gideon sent his alternate driver, Raul, to drive Eva to the airport (a ride Eva flatly refused to accept.)

 

So how's this for a scenario: on Thursday evening, while Angus is driving Eva to and from therapy, Raul picks up Gideon after work, goes right to Corrine's apartment to pick her up for the party, then drops the pair off at the party. Meanwhile, Angus does something in the interim to make sure he (Angus) is around another person right on up to the time Angus makes a very short drive of mere minutes to the f*** pad hotel to be the driver who picks up Gideon and Corrine after the party. Corrine is driven right home, then Angus takes Gideon somewhere on a long drive under some ruse of Gideon working very late. Gets him well away from Manhattan itself. Brings Gideon back home in the wee hours of the morning.

 

For one thing, Gideon having a ready excuse that he needs to meet with someone very late for work after the work party would deflected Corrine from having any expectations that after the party, Gideon would take her upstairs to a room at the hotel. Corrine would be taken right home, and she wouldn't even bother trying to get Gideon to come upstairs to her apartment, because Corrine would know Gideon needed to be somewhere else.

 

There is one obvious hole in this, however -- if Angus made sure he was around other people at all times, how did Angus slip off to kill Nathan? Maybe Angus manufactured enough of an alibi that the cops wouldn't dig into in order to find the hole. Angus would say "I was such and such place after I dropped Ms. Tramell off and before I went to pick up Mr. Cross and Mrs. Giroux." Angus would have actually been at such-and-such place for most of the time. But as he headed to the f*** pad hotel, he would have made a quick detour to take care of Nathan. Nathan's hotel was a 15-minute walk from the party, which made it just a few minutes' drive.

[jls1216]

I didn't even think about that, maybe he was killed early Friday morning. Because Thursday night Angus was with Eva at therapy.

[LN Cronan]

I didn't even think about that, maybe he was killed early Friday morning. Because Thursday night Angus was with Eva at therapy.

 

Right now, Detective Graves is hung up on the possible hole she uncovered in Gideon's alibi. The party was disrupted for an hour by a kitchen fire at the hotel, which sent everyone (party guests and hotel guests) outside to mill around. Graves believes Gideon slipped off in the middle of the confusion, walked 15 minutes to Nathan's hotel, killed him, and walked 15 minutes back.

 

This leads me to believe the estimated time of death from the autopsy is somewhere in the evening. Plus, the fact that Gideon had gone out of his way to make sure he was seen -- and even press photographed -- at that party leads me to believe that if Angus did it instead, Angus did so while the party was going on.

[sscrph]

Right now, Detective Graves is hung up on the possible hole she uncovered in Gideon's alibi. The party was disrupted for an hour by a kitchen fire at the hotel, which sent everyone (party guests and hotel guests) outside to mill around. Graves believes Gideon slipped off in the middle of the confusion, walked 15 minutes to Nathan's hotel, killed him, and walked 15 minutes back.

 

This leads me to believe the estimated time of death from the autopsy is somewhere in the evening. Plus, the fact that Gideon had gone out of his way to make sure he was seen -- and even press photographed -- at that party leads me to believe that if Angus did it instead, Angus did so while the party was going on.

But would Nathan have opened the door for Angus knowing he was Gideon's bodyguard or not knowing him at all ? Or maybe Angus was already in the room...

[sscrph]

Could Angus have left the limo idling in front of the f--- pad hotel to let others think he was inside and walked the 15 mins to and from Nathan's to do the deed and then return to his car waiting for the party to end?

[LN Cronan]

People are assuming that just because Detective Graves believes Nathan opened the door, that absolutely is what happened. I think -- NOT. She's got that part of her theory wrong. People also are assuming, based on the fact Gideon attacked Nathan in his office, Nathan is terrified of Gideon. Oh h*** NO. If Nathan were scared, he'd have left New York.

 

I firmly maintain that Gideon used a master keycard to open that hotel room door on his own and quietly slip inside, then stood on the threshold and said something that convinced Nathan to approach him. (Or if Angus was the one holding the knife, got in using a master keycard Gideon supplied him.)

 

Thing to consider:

 

• Using a master key eliminates the need to knock on the door and ask Nathan to open it up. What if Nathan refused? Game over. And even the act of knocking on the door could be overheard in nearby rooms. Most especially if Gideon (or Angus) had to talk Nathan into opening the door.
• Gideon could very easily acquire a master keycard for that hotel, which a subsidiary of Cross Industries owns. Because there would be plenty of master keycards already in use -- hotel managers would always carry master keycards capable of opening any door in the facility, and housekeepers carry master keycards to open all the guest rooms.
• We know Gideon has a habit of carrying around another sort of master key -- an elevator master key. It's come in handy cornering Eva in elevators. So he knows how handy master keys can be.

[sscrph]

I think we may be wasting our time on these theories about how it all went down because I just don't think we will ever know the details because as someone mentioned earlier I don't think Gideon will ever divulge the details of how it all went down.

[LN Cronan]

I think we may be wasting our time on these theories about how it all went down because I just don't think we will ever know the details because as someone mentioned earlier I don't think Gideon will ever divulge the details of how it all went down.

 

Eva doesn't need to know every step A to Z, but she absolutely is now on a need-to-know basis of the key details. So Eva (and thus we readers) are going to get the highlights of how Gideon pulled off the murder plot. Bottom line: Eva needs confirmation of the stuff the detectives have figured out on their own (i.e. the stuff Detective Graves has gotten right) plus a heads up on the stuff the detectives either have gotten wrong or have failed to figure out.

 

Some of the stuff Detective Graves told her undoubtedly is stuff the cops got right, but some of it probably is wrong too. More importantly, there's stuff Graves would have held back on telling Eva (lest it get back to Gideon's defense team) and there's stuff Graves probably doesn't know about -- but -- might find out as the cops keep digging.

 

Now that Eva will be up to her eyeballs in helping to cover up the murder after the fact, she cannot afford to be blindsided by anything. Gideon had kept her completely in the dark for her own legal protection these past three weeks. Now he needs to go to the other end of the scale, tell her everything that's vital she be aware of if she's going to help him make the cops go away.

[jls1216]

This waiting is driving me crazy! I have so many different theories running around in my head:)

[Donnad]

Angus was in the room

[MrsCrossfire]

I think we may be wasting our time on these theories about how it all went down because I just don't think we will ever know the details because as someone mentioned earlier I don't think Gideon will ever divulge the details of how it all went down.

I've thought this same thing.! I don't think Gideon is going to tell Eva the detail..! I want to know tho..! Lol

[MrsCrossfire]

Angus was in the room

Angus killed Nathan...!? I'm not so sure but it would be a nice twist..! It's just who the could have persuaded Nathan to open the door without him feeling threaten..! It doesn't make since that he would let Gideon in if Gideon had already beat the crap out of him, seems like he would have enough since to want to meet in public..! (Right)??

[GiGi]

Hi Everyone,

What possible reason would Angus have to kill Nathan?  Let's think about this for a minute and no we cannot use the excuse of Gideon to Angus to do it.  In order for a theory to be plausible it has to pass the the common sense test.

 

1. There is no way that Gideon would ask Angus to kill Nathan.  He would have been asking someone to commit murder.  Would you commit murder because someone asked you to do it?
2. Committing murder doesn’t fall under Angus’s employment descriptions.  Angus is there to protect Gideon and ONLY Gideon in dangerous situations.  Someone going to Nathan’s hotel room, surprising him and then calculatedly stabbing him in the heart IS NOT a situation of SELF DEFENSE!!
3. Gideon deciding to kill Nathan is NOT a situation of justifiable homicide!  The theory laid out here is one of PREMEDITATED MURDER!!!  Ask any lawyer!
4. This theory asks us to completely suspend our common sense.  If you were in the same situation WHAT WOULD YOU DO?! 

[MrsCrossfire]

I don't think angus did it..! I'm not sure Gideon did it, but I know he had knowledge of it if he did not do it himself, but I don't see how angus would agree to that..!! And I don't see Gideon asking angus to do it..!