Have you ever considered Mr. Barker?

[GiGi]

Hey, GiGi,

 

I'm saying this with a fond smile and all due respect as you're my favorite fellow poster, there's a huge differences between appearing as a prosecution witness a few times to specifically testify about something healthcare related and spending twelve years working on a daily basis inside the legal world as a professional covering the work of cops and prosecutors, defense lawyers, court clerks and even judges themselves.

 

Having been a patient in an emergency room several times over the years did not give me expertise in emergency medicine, and working with my doctors does not make a health care professional.

 

What made me a professional expert in how people are charged with crimes under the U.S. legal system started with a college education in journalism followed by more than ten years of on-the-job experience closely watching crime cases built from the bottom up by the police and resolved at the other end by the court system. I wasn't simply any kind of journalist, I was a crime beat journalist -- an expert within my own field.

 

I covered thousands of criminal investigations ranging from thefts to murders, covered hundreds of court cases from misdemeanors to death-penalty cases, and sat every single minute through dozens of jury trials. For every single murder case plus some other especially heinous crimes, I also sat through every minute of every pre-trial hearing where both sides fought like cats and dogs over what the jury would, and would not, hear about. And when the judge ruled, it was my job to explain to everyone else what it meant.

 

What's more, I was actually part of the system legal system itself, the public accountability part that kept everyone involved answerable, from the judges themselves on down. The press is one of the crucial pieces of the court system, most especially the criminal court system in the United States. 

 

I can't say how this fictional case will play out - that's in Sylvia's head. But I know exactly how the system works  in real life -- not how it's "supposed" to work theory -- how it actually does work in practice, including how things go wrong. Especially how things go wrong, because when they went wrong on my beat (and they did) I wrote about how the police made mistakes, lawyers for one side or the other blew it, even judges who sometimes screwed up.

 

Too, there are differences in the legal systems between the United States and Canada: different constitutions, different legal rights, different sets of precedent-setting case law, different sets of legal procedures.

 Hi LNCronan,

Again it seems that we are at an impass.  When I say that I have had eighteen years of experience, I mean just that (eighteen clinical years of having seen all different types of patients, from all different walks of life, from many different cultures).  Just because I don't discuss this part of my life doesn't mean that my perspective isn't relevant.

 

We have previously talked about the Oath of Above all do no harm, but I am also legally, morally and ethically obligated to keep said information as private and confidential!  As such I wouldn't be able to discuss the particulars NOR WOULD I EVER!!  It also doesn't mean that I haven't retained that information and can't apply those experiences to other aspects of life. 

 

You of all people should know that over 85% of all people who are victims of violence, sexual assault, sexual abuse or other forms of abuse go unreported.  Who deals with those patients?  Are their cases not valid?  Do their experiences not count?  Are the healthcare providers who work with these individuals less qualified? 

 

You of all people should also know that more often than not those individuals who do go before the court and are brave enough to face their accusers, often don't get a conviction.  More often than not the concept of "resonable doubt" is stretched way beyond its limits".  Perhaps that is another difference between Canada and the United States.  Perhaps the US has better statistis in its convictions of rapists and such.  Canada, however does not.

 

As far as the education thing is concerned, I have too obtained a 4 year degree from a prestigious University (I started out with40 classmate and only 6 of us graduated at the end) and two subsequent post graduate degrees from two other Universities; one in Canada and one in the United States (The specific program that I was looking for wasn't offered in Canada).  So I think that; my education and clinical experience allows me to offer my opinions with confidence and without fear of reprisal. 

 

There are many others, myself included, who have valuabe experinces and different perspectives that can apply their expertise to this forum, and to the series.  You are not the only one.  Keep that in mind if you can. 

[julie54]

I'm thinking ex- Mrs Barker might be the twist to this murder. Although Gideon is the obvious candidate, when Monica saw Nathan outside Crossfire the day she had lunch with Eva and Megumi, her mothering instincts kicked in, where she would do anything to keep her daughter safe.

[jls1216]

Maybe Gideon is protecting Monica, for Eva's sake.

[Donnad]

Gideon is definitely involved...whether other people are will see.

[Nathalia]

I'm thinking ex- Mrs Barker might be the twist to this murder. Although Gideon is the obvious candidate, when Monica saw Nathan outside Crossfire the day she had lunch with Eva and Megumi, her mothering instincts kicked in, where she would do anything to keep her daughter safe.

 

I'm still confused about this...They were walking back to the Crossfire building, only Monica saw Nathan standing there, until Clancy got out of his car (reallly tho, how can someone drive that slowly to follow in NYC? lol)...Then they got in the car and when Clancy pulled up to the building, Nathan was gone? Still doesn't make sense to me.

Monica def called Gideon after that. Or maybe Clancy and Angus have each others numbers....lol

 

Speaking of numbers! What if in EWY...Gideon and Eva  have disposable cell phones so they can chat w/o being tracked!? lol...

Jeezz...what's the countdown??

[Donnad]

Speaking of numbers! What if in EWY...Gideon and Eva  have disposable cell phones so they can chat w/o being tracked!? lol...

Jeezz...what's the countdown??

That's a good idea - disposable cell phones

[Peachies]

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to add a few points of my own:

• Even if someone used a “master keyâ€, when that key was inserted into the lock, it would have made a NOISE (a chirp, a click, something).
• Each and every single key whether it be a “master key†or employee key or guest key, would leave a documented computer trail. This would mean that Gideon would have to go and wipe the servers manually himself or have someone do if for him which would mean that he would have to involve someone else in the commission of his crime.
• These are all extremely important points to remember when considering a theory.

At the end of the day, one would still need to apply some common sense when assessing a theory’s validity. What does everyone think?

It depends on what master key he uses. If it is a housekeeper key, it would only be recorded as housekeepers... Who most likely discovered his body. Or he could have used an actual master key, the metal kind, which don't get recorded.

I had not thought of the master key idea before now.

I think Gideon was involved somehow. During their time apart, he tells Eva he "had an opportunity he had to take", "this is how it has to be", and to "wait for him".

At another earlier time Gideon tells Eva (I don't know the exact words) he would give up everything for her, and he would kill for her.

[julie54]

Peaches

The exact words are

I'd kill for you, give up everything I own for you.....but I won't give you up. Swoon!

That has to be one of the most memorable lines in the book. Imagine a man saying that to you. To be loved that much.

[jls1216]

I agree Julie:) Gideon is so YUM!!

[Peachies]

Peaches

The exact words are

I'd kill for you, give up everything I own for you.....but I won't give you up. Swoon!

That has to be one of the most memorable lines in the book. Imagine a man saying that to you. To be loved that much.

Yes, thank you!

[LN Cronan]

Today there was a real-world example of prosecutors getting a murder conviction based purely on circumstantial evidence in a high profile case involving a high society figure. The trial was in Los Angeles, but the story is from the online edition of The Boston Globe, which extensively covered the case due to Boston interest in the murderer. The murderer is a con man who had for years successfully passed himself off as a member of the Rockefeller family and had moved freely in high society circles in the Northeast.

 

http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/10/jurors-have-reached-verdict-clark-rockefeller-murder-trial-los-angeles/lEpYMh84Ya4jXkc78TPvzO/story.html

[GiGi]

Hi everyone,

I read the article posted on the forum and I fail to understand how that bears any relevance as to how this story might apply to the Eva and Gideon story.  In the "Rockafeller Case" that man was a grifter pretending to be someone that he was not. Gideon was and is an actual billionaire, who is beloved by many if not all of he charities that he supports. He is also an extremely good looking man who has women who swoon at his feet. 

 

That article compares apples to oranges.  Gideon doesn't need to pretend, he is exactly what he says he is.  That grifter was not.  It would be a suicide mission  for a prosecutor to take on a case like Gideon's.  I just don't think that it will happen.  I also don't think that Gideon did it.  What does everyone think?

[GiGi]

 Hi Everyone,

I also just wanted to mention that so many times people say: "I could just kill him/her!  I am going to kill him/her!  I would kill for him/her!  and yet more often than not, these people who made such passionate statements don't end up killing the person they threatened.  It is just a thought.

[sscrph]

Hi everyone,

I read the article posted on the forum and I fail to understand how that bears any relevance as to how this story might apply to the Eva and Gideon story.  In the "Rockafeller Case" that man was a grifter pretending to be someone that he was not. Gideon was and is an actual billionaire, who is beloved by many if not all of he charities that he supports. He is also an extremely good looking man who has women who swoon at his feet. 

 

That article compares apples to oranges.  Gideon doesn't need to pretend, he is exactly what he says he is.  That grifter was not.  It would be a suicide mission  for a prosecutor to take on a case like Gideon's.  I just don't think that it will happen.  I also don't think that Gideon did it.  What does everyone think?

I agree with you about the article Gigi and I also think a prosecutor would be crazy to take this on especially since Nathan was such an unsavory character coupled with no concrete evidence would be professional suicide. That being said, I just can't decide if Gideon did it. Only June 4th will tell and even then it may not be crystal clear until Book 4 . Oh well I guess I will pre-order that one too. LOL

[jennpenn926]

I am not 100% sure Gideon killed Nathan personally( have no doubts what so ever that he was involved in the planning and cover up) 1st of all if Gideon was with Corinne as we know at the Kingsman Vodka party it would be pretty hard for him to get away from her for the 30 minutes it took ( if he walked 15 minutes each way.) If Detective Graves was so bent on breaking Gideon's alibi that she repeatably went to the hotel to interview employees its only logical she would have interviewed his date the one person who should supposidly be with him all night and there is no way he told Corinne anything. Especially considering Detective Graves implied she never believed Gideon was really back together with Corinne. Graves knew about Eva dumping Gideon Saturday morning even though the press was reporting Gideon broke up with Eva for Corinne on Monday. I personally believe Angus or Clancey did the actual deed while Gideon, Monica and Stanton planned everything out. They had to make sure they all had a alibi for the murder. Mr. Barker I don't think had anything to do with Nathan's murder he was probably not happy but relieved by his death though.

[LN Cronan]

I am not 100% sure Gideon killed Nathan personally( have no doubts what so ever that he was involved in the planning and cover up) 1st of all if Gideon was with Corinne as we know at the Kingsman Vodka party it would be pretty hard for him to get away from her for the 30 minutes it took ( if he walked 15 minutes each way.) If Detective Graves was so ###### bent on breaking Gideon's alibi that she repeatably went to the hotel to interview employees its only logical she would have interviewed his date the one person who should supposidly be with him all night and there is no way he told Corinne anything. Especially considering Detective Graves implied she never believed Gideon was really back together with Corinne. Graves knew about Eva dumping Gideon Saturday morning even though the press was reporting Gideon broke up with Eva for Corinne on Monday. I personally believe Angus or Clancey did the actual deed while Gideon, Monica and Stanton planned everything out. They had to make sure they all had a alibi for the murder. Mr. Barker I don't think had anything to do with Nathan's murder he was probably not happy but relieved by his death though.

 

I've wondered too whether the cops interviewed Corrine as part of checking out Gideon's alibi. They may actually have done so -- and I'll be interested to see if that's included in Entwined when Gideon and Eva have a long overdue talk about both Corrine and Brett.

 

The story is told from Eva's point of view, so we know only what Eva knows. It's possible -- I think probable -- that Detective Graves withheld a lot of stuff from Eva when Graves spilled the beans. If my theory is true that Graves told Eva only enough to get Eva to run back to Gideon, thereby setting the trap, then Graves would not have told Eva any details about the Corrine-Gideon connection side of the investigation. Indeed, Graves brushed off Corrine almost entirely, describing Corrine almost (IMHO) dismissively as "an old flame" and not even bothering to name Corrine, much less acknowledge Corrine's sudden-celebrity-status.

 

One of the biggest themes in the two novels thus far is secret-keeping. Gideon keeping secrets from Eva. Monica keeping secrets from Eva. Even Cary keeping one important secret from Eva (that Eva would actually be seeing Brett's re-named band in concert.) It makes sense to me that the police would be keeping secrets from Eva too.

 

But what's changed this time is that Gideon and Eva are at last practicing honesty and trust with one another.

[Nathalia]

I don't know....I really think Gideon did it. All the snippets/synopsis lean that way.  I also think that Nathan would have opened his door for Gideon. Graves said he was found just inside the door. If Gideon had 'agreed' to pay Nathan, then he would have been expecting him...so, why wouldn't he open his door to him? Even if he beat him up one time before, this time Nathan thought he was getting what he wanted, the money.

Idk..just my thoughts.   Time to see today's snapshot!

[golfergirl]

Nathalia I totally agree with exactly that, Nathan and Gideon agreed that he would go and give him the extortion money and he opened the door to him...

[jennpenn926]

Very true LN Cronan. Poor Eva has everyone keeping secrets from her the only one she has is not telling her dad about Nathan but I think her dad will investigate now because how Eva reacted hearing his name. I think secrets are still going to be a heavy theme in EWY, but with a little bit of a shift. Like you said Eva and Gideon are showing trust and honesty with each other but now I believe they are to start keeping secrets from everyone else including the fact that they are together.

[LN Cronan]

There's sooooo much Eva hadn't known, (and thus we readers don't know) because people kept things from her. Like all about Nathan and his movements -- aside from a few things Monica has let slip, Eva has been in the dark until the detective confronted Eva. What's up with that?. What bothers me is Eva hadn't demanded more answers when things went to h***. She mostly kept her head stuck in the sand regarding Nathan since that awful weekend.

 

Same deal with what's been going on with Gideon. Granted, Eva tried getting answers out of him while he was pulling away, but once she dumped him, she stuck her head in the sand about him too. Thus she has no real idea of the full extent of the public lie Gideon has been living. She kept her head down, avoided the news, and aside from the gym and Krav Maga classes, spent a lot of time curled up at home.

 

I'm glad that at the end of Reflected, she finally started pulling her head out of her b*** and began demanding answers out of some people: Gideon's mother, Dr. Lucas, Corrine, Christopher Jr (though she kinda wimped out with him.) I hope to see an Eva in Entwined who is going to demand honesty of Gideon and of her mother -- and become honest herself with her father.

[sscrph]

There's sooooo much Eva hadn't known, (and thus we readers don't know) because people kept things from her. Like all about Nathan and his movements -- aside from a few things Monica has let slip, Eva has been in the dark until the detective confronted Eva. What's up with that?. What bothers me is Eva hadn't demanded more answers when things went to h***. She mostly kept her head stuck in the sand regarding Nathan since that awful weekend.

 

Same deal with what's been going on with Gideon. Granted, Eva tried getting answers out of him while he was pulling away, but once she dumped him, she stuck her head in the sand about him too. Thus she has no real idea of the full extent of the public lie Gideon has been living. She kept her head down, avoided the news, and aside from the gym and Krav Maga classes, spent a lot of time curled up at home.

 

I'm glad that at the end of Reflected, she finally started pulling her head out of her b*** and began demanding answers out of some people: Gideon's mother, Dr. Lucas, Corrine, Christopher Jr (though she kinda wimped out with him.) I hope to see an Eva in Entwined who is going to demand honesty of Gideon and of her mother -- and become honest herself with her father.

Hopefully "new" Eva will be the Eva the reader sees in Entwined and beyond...

[GiGi]

I agree with you about the article Gigi and I also think a prosecutor would be crazy to take this on especially since Nathan was such an unsavory character coupled with no concrete evidence would be professional suicide. That being said, I just can't decide if Gideon did it. Only June 4th will tell and even then it may not be crystal clear until Book 4 . Oh well I guess I will pre-order that one too. LOL

Hi Sscrph,

I was thinking about this entire thing and I have to say that given the timeline (2 weeks according to Sylvia), how would Gideon be investigated, charged, criminally prosecuted and then released? The wheels of justice always move so slowly (in real life)! So how on earth would Sylvia tackle something like that in such a short amount of time.

I just don't see it. Quite frankly, I also don't think I would want to keep reading about Nathan's murder hanging over Gideon and Eva's head. As so many others have pointed out, this is supposed to be a love story and not a murder mystery. There has to be more substance to Gideon and Eva then this surely. Let's seriously hope that this part of the story line gets wrapped up with the third book. Fingers crossed! :)

[julie54]

I know this is a bit out there.

But I have often wondered if Victor knew of his daughters abuse?

Was it just coincidence that he turned up in New York at the time that Nathan got murdered?

I know police could check what flights he was on, but they seem to be concentrating on Gideon.

Could Victor had done the dirty deed, because he knew Nathan was in New York ,having kept tabs on him over the years???

[sscrph]

I know this is a bit out there.

But I have often wondered if Victor knew of his daughters abuse?

Was it just coincidence that he turned up in New York at the time that Nathan got murdered?

I know police could check what flights he was on, but they seem to be concentrating on Gideon.

Could Victor had done the dirty deed, because he knew Nathan was in New York ,having kept tabs on him over the years???

Hi Julie, a friend of mine has thought this from the very beginning so I can't wait to find out!!

[jls1216]

I keep thinking about the New Year's snippet from Gideon's pov. He says that he would do it again and again to prevent Eva from ever being scared like she was with Nathan. It seems like he was referring to the murder. It could be about the cover up. I'm not sure.