One Chapter A Day - Re-Read Of Bared and Entwined

[LN Cronan]

One more thing, this about Monica's paranoia the seals on court records were broken by Nathan's death.

 

This does not mean the records all of a sudden became public - that any reporter could now simply go to the courthouse(s) and ask to see the files. But what it does mean is now is that certain insiders within the courts have very valid reasons for looking into files normally they'd be forbidden to open. Court personnel aren't allowed to look into sealed files just for the h*** of it. But when they have very valid reason to, they most certainly are.

 

The pool of insiders who know about the old Nathan records just got a whole lot larger. Now it's not just the folks who had been involved a decade ago, whose promise to silence Stanton bought. Now there are some people who presently work in the courts who now know about the old records, because of the murder investigation. Additionally, there are now cops (like Detective Graves) who have seen (and gotten copies of) all the records. The circumstances under which Nathan died made his legal past an open book to the NYPD. Nathan's records have gone from buried in the archives to suddenly going through the hands cops/court insiders.

[sscrph]

morning Gabri

Hope it's a lovely day in Italy as it is in England .

I gave your posting a lot of thought last night, trying to absolve Monica from her neglect.

I just feel that Monica as a mother didn't have a clue when it came to parenting.

Eva was 10 when the rapes started. Just for arguments sakes she was raped twice a week, that was 400 times in that 4 year period! Eva states to Gideon that she lost count.

Eva must have been traumatised, had nightmares, refusing to sleep in her own bed, her behaviour would have changed dramatically I would have thought. For Monica not to see this, makes me wonder if she was living in the same house! Someone stated that the staff didn't say anything, as Eva said they had to know, because they feared losing their jobs?

Yes, as soon as she found out, she did the right thing, but it was too late for Eva . The damage was done. Gideon became her healer, hopefully the box where she put her ordeal, won't be opened ever again.

Hi Julie your estimation of 400 times has me reeling...that being said yes Eva had to open that box for Dr. Travis and now for Gideon, hopefully that will be it and it will be closed forever. Eva has stated that Gideon is saving her and that is probably true and I'm sure she is doing the same for him is it any wonder he would kill for this woman...I hope in the series Gideon will be able to put his ordeal in a box too and lock it away forever.

[julie54]

All those old court documents are sealed, so why is it Eva's so paranoid the media could find out all about it? She's right to be scared, because there is a serious paper trail that an investigative reporter could follow through interviewing some people with inside knowledge of the case, protecting those people as "unnamed sources." Especially damning would be if a reporter were able to get his/her hands on copies of leaked documents, because Eva's name would be all over them (and Monica's to a lesser extent, most especially though in the monetary damages case.)

 

If you fellow fans can stand a little more about applicable U.S. constitutional law, read on ....

 

The Sixth Amendment that I talked about the other day, the one that protects the right to a lawyer for anyone accused of (or even suspected of being involved with) a crime? That one that Detective Graves violated when she questioned Eva? The Sixth Amendment guarantees additional rights that include a "public" trial. The government isn't allowed to hide prosecutions of citizens behind closed doors.

 

If the government is going to attempt to send someone to prison, the government must handle the whole case in the open where all citizens can see. This is a protection against government abuses of the court system. What this means iis that with only few exceptions, all criminal cases are public proceedings, and nearly all the records are public documents. Any member of the public can watch in court and can read the files. Most especially the press.

 

The major exception to public criminal cases is juvenile cases, which technically are "delinquency" instead of "criminal" proceedings. Juvie cases are handled in closed courtrooms, the files are non-public, and the fact a child was accused of and/or convicted of delinquency is secret. Unless they have an actual reason to, court clerks aren't supposed to root through those files. At best, cops may know someone who goes on to become an adult criminal has a juvie record, but even then cops need good reason to be allowed access to the records.

 

In addition to the criminal case against Nathan, Monica sued his father for damages. There's less secrecy protection there. However in a civil proceeding, the settlement terms can be made a secret if both sides agree and the judge agrees to seal it. This happens quite regularly when someone (here Nathan's father) wants to settle instead of risk going to a civil trial where a jury could possibly award the plaintiff (here Monica) every last cent the defendant has. So it's to someone's advantage to settle -- settle confidentially, lest someone else get ideas about bringing another lawsuit hoping to get big bucks.

 

So if a journalist poked around, he/she would be able to easily determine the existence of a civil suit in which Monica sued her husband. But when a reporter tried to see the court records, nearly all of them would be confidential -- not just because the sides agreed to confidentiality, but the judge signed an order to seal.

 

So how is a journalist supposed to "get the dirt." People who had been involved and know details could talk under circumstances where the journalist would publish the details but keep secret the name of the person who spilled the details. That's an "unnamed source." Too, someone could leak copies of the paperwork they, for whatever reasons, still had copies of. When Stanton paid people money to keep their mouths shut, he was banking on those people being afraid to cooperate with any journalists, lest they (the sources) somehow get caught doing it.

 

The First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution protects, among other things, freedom of the press, and it's those rights that journalists fight to protect when someone tries to force a news organization, by bringing them to court, reveal unnamed sources. Judges are reluctant to order media to reveal sources, especially because it usually doesn't work -- journalists almost always will go to jail for contempt of court than reveal a source. The media also relies heavily on the First Amendment any time the government tries to prevent the media from having access to open government proceedings -- including criminal cases.

 

Bottom line in Eva (and Monica's) situation. There's a legal paper trail about everything that happened after the abuse was uncovered, and there were a lot of people involved who would remember. The danger exists any one of them could talk to and/or leak copies of records to a journalist who would keep secret the name(s) of the person(s) who leaked the info. And there are news organizations unscrupulous enough to use the info to create a scandal instead of following the usual media standards the mainstream media abides by - refusing to name sexual assault victims unless the victim specifically wants his/her name revealed.

 

Increasingly, some victims do ask journalists to use their names, wanting the shame assigned to where it belongs -- with the rapists, not the victims -- and wanting everyone to know details of the terrible things the criminals did to them. However, most victims are reluctant to be named. The cases may still get reported, but the widespread voluntary media practice is to leave the victim names out.

 

"Voluntary" is key here. The media is free to report anything about criminal cases, even the names of victims. All cases, including rape. No laws exist forbidding the media to report facts. Even if the media obtains confidential information, still they can report what they want -- as long as what printed is true, journalists commit no crimes by running the stories. When the framework of the U.S. Government was built through our Constitution over 200 years ago, the founding fathers, aware of press censorship under feudal systems in other countries, sought to guarantee the government cannot muzzle the press. Centuries later, the government still finds it hard to impossible to be able to legally try to stop the media from running stories, even stories that contain government secrets.

Afternoon.

I am finding this history lesson absolutely fascinating, I had heard about the Amendments but didn't know what they entailed. Keep it coming, because it fits in well with the story.

Thankyou

[sscrph]

I feel sorry for any journalist who attempts to leak Eva's name or her story because Gideon will make good on his promise to destroy said career ...will our Eva ever be at peace...maybe she should have thought twice about dating a celebrity ...hopefully these two will have their happy ending with no regrets and no worries!!

[LN Cronan]

On a different topic .... Magdalene ....

 

Doing this re-reading project has made me re-examine many little details in a new light. The Chapter Twelve mention of Magdalene smiling as she talked to Gideon (that photo a paparazzi got) coupled with the Chapter Fourteen incident where Magdalene shows up unannounced at Eva's office, trying to see Eva, is something I'm reconsidering.

 

Before now, I viewed that incident in the same class as what Corrine did do later: pull a stunt to mess with Eva at the Crossfire, the goal being to drive a wedge between Eva and Gideon, using Eva's insecurities as a weapon. Magdalene never did get to see Eva, and Megumi later reported Magdalene appeared to get mad when she (Magdalene) failed. At the time, I thought -- good for you, Eva! Sic Gideon's own staff on Magdalene to make the b**** go away!! You go, gurl!

 

By now, I'm thinking the whole reason Magdalene showed up was because, as a real friend to Gideon, Magdalene knew she'd hurt Gideon when she'd verbally attacked a woman who turned out to be someone Gideon cared very deeply about. She tried to see Eva that Friday morning in order to try to get Gideon out of any more trouble he might be in with Eva because of her (Magdalene). And the reason she got mad when she realized she wasn't going to get to even talk to Eva was because she (Magdalene) now was frustrated and afraid she'd no longer be allowed to be friends with Gideon.

 

I saw the Magdalene-tried-to-see-Eva in a new light based on what Magdalene did do not too long later, which was to call Eva up at work. Magdalene called Eva the morning after the whole mess of what happened the night before with Corrine - Gideon had (stupidly) allowed Corrine to monopolize his attention, something that got Gideon into real trouble (for good reason) with Eva. When Magdalene, who had eavesdropped on the whole thing the night before, called Eva up the next morning to gossip, I think Magdalene's real purpose was to get Gideon off the hook. And I saw Magdalene as having told the truth when Eva asked her why she was doing it. Magdalene explained she and Gideon were very old friends -- and so Magdalene didn't want things to be awkward when she was around Eva and Gideon in the future.

 

Bared timeline of Magdalene and Eva

1. Saturday (fundraiser): Magdalene essentially called Eva as s*** and claimed she (Magdalene) was the one he respected. Being a b****? yes. But dishonest? No. Magdalene had herself fooled into thinking she was somehow filling the hole Corrine left years ago, and she had every reason to believe Eva would go right on the reject pile like every other woman Gideon f****.
2. Monday lunchtime: (Eva and Gideon become a couple): Eva expressly warned Gideon she had a problem with Magdalene, including telling him almost word for word what Magdalene had said, details he hadn't known about. He got mad about what happened and promised to deal with Magdalene, so moving forward, Magdalene would not be a problem.
3. Monday afternoon? I think Gideon called Magdalene, chewed her out and informed Magdalene that Eva was now his full-fledged girlfriend. And I think Magdalene believed him, felt a little bad about how mean she'd been, and promised him she'd treat Eva with respect moving forward. Sure, Magdalene probably hoped the Gideon/Eva thing was just a fling that would burn itself out. But she valued her old friendship with Gideon enough that she didn't want to endanger it.
4. By Tuesday morning: Plastered all over the Internet are pictures of Gideon kissing Eva and stories that they're serious.
5. Tuesday night: Magdalene ran into Gideon at the restaurant where he'd attended a business meeting. Outside, they talked, and they both looked happy. Gideon later tried re-assuring Eva the happy look in his eyes was because he was talking about her (Eva). I think that even though Magdalene undoubtedly was jealous, she was happy for him. But .... the two of them standing there together looked incriminating in a paparazzi picture someone got
6. By Wednesday morning: Plastered all over the Internet are false stories and pictures Eva and Cary have something going on and that Gideon had run right to Magdalene the night before because of it.
7. By Thursday morning: plastered all over the Internet are pictures of Gideon and Eva arguing out in public - stuff that includes them passionately making up.
8. Friday morning: Magdalene shows up at Eva's office to try to talk to her.

 

I think Magdalene's main motive was to make sure Gideon wasn't in trouble anymore because of those pictures of him talking to her (Magdalene) that hit the Internet on Wednesday. Perhaps Magdalene might wanted to make sure for herself, too, those rumors Eva was juggling two boyfriends (Gideon and Cary) weren't true. Because Magdalene cares a lot for Gideon as a friend.

[LN Cronan]

Afternoon.

I am finding this history lesson absolutely fascinating, I had heard about the Amendments but didn't know what they entailed. Keep it coming, because it fits in well with the story.

Thankyou

 

You're welcome, Julie. I know there's a huge international following here, with regulars from England (like you), Italy, South Africa, Australia .... Crossfire is a global phenomena.

 

Because I have years of actual professional experience with some of these constitutional rights that govern the criminal courts and the press in the United States, I can recognize the way many things in the fictional story could unfold in real life in the U.S. But other nations have their own systems too, and some of those systems handle things differently. 

 

It makes me smile that you're British, because the way things used to be run in your nation two centuries ago was perhaps the biggest factor in the decisions made by the American leaders who created this country's constitution. The founding fathers didn't want a monarchy, they wanted a democracy. They came up with a system they thought would best protect a democracy -- protect the citizens against possible abuse of power by the rulers of the government.

 

The main body of the Constitution itself created the system of government: Presidency, Congress, U.S. Supreme Court. The Amendments are additions to it. It's been amended 27 times thus far over the years, changes that did things such as outlaw slavery and give women the right to vote.

 

But the first ten of the Amendments came in one fell-swoop at the beginning in order to try to guarantee crucial rights citizens have to protect them from possible abuses of power. We call those first ten The Bill of Rights, and even 200+ years later, they're still in every day use.

 

Among the Bill of Rights guarantees are: free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, right to bear arms, rights of individuals accused of crimes to have fair and open trials, the rights of individual states to have their own state government systems .... yada, yada, yada ....

[LN Cronan]

Many of the criminal legal rights Gideon (and by extension Eva) have are covered under various parts of the Fifth, Sixth, and Seventh Amendments, which collectively govern how any criminal investigations, charges, and trials, must be fairly handled by the police and prosecution.

 

Many of the rights that would protect the press' ability to report the truth about the whole legal mess, past and present, if the press so chose to do, all fall under the First Amendment.

[julie54]

On a different topic .... Magdalene ....

 

Doing this re-reading project has made me re-examine many little details in a new light. The Chapter Twelve mention of Magdalene smiling as she talked to Gideon (that photo a paparazzi got) coupled with the Chapter Fourteen incident where Magdalene shows up unannounced at Eva's office, trying to see Eva, is something I'm reconsidering.

 

Before now, I viewed that incident in the same class as what Corrine did do later: pull a stunt to mess with Eva at the Crossfire, the goal being to drive a wedge between Eva and Gideon, using Eva's insecurities as a weapon. Magdalene never did get to see Eva, and Megumi later reported Magdalene appeared to get mad when she (Magdalene) failed. At the time, I thought -- good for you, Eva! Sic Gideon's own staff on Magdalene to make the b**** go away!! You go, gurl!

 

By now, I'm thinking the whole reason Magdalene showed up was because, as a real friend to Gideon, Magdalene knew she'd hurt Gideon when she'd verbally attacked a woman who turned out to be someone Gideon cared very deeply about. She tried to see Eva that Friday morning in order to try to get Gideon out of any more trouble he might be in with Eva because of her (Magdalene). And the reason she got mad when she realized she wasn't going to get to even talk to Eva was because she (Magdalene) now was frustrated and afraid she'd no longer be allowed to be friends with Gideon.

 

I saw the Magdalene-tried-to-see-Eva in a new light based on what Magdalene did do not too long later, which was to call Eva up at work. Magdalene called Eva the morning after the whole mess of what happened the night before with Corrine - Gideon had (stupidly) allowed Corrine to monopolize his attention, something that got Gideon into real trouble (for good reason) with Eva. When Magdalene, who had eavesdropped on the whole thing the night before, called Eva up the next morning to gossip, I think Magdalene's real purpose was to get Gideon off the hook. And I saw Magdalene as having told the truth when Eva asked her why she was doing it. Magdalene explained she and Gideon were very old friends -- and so Magdalene didn't want things to be awkward when she was around Eva and Gideon in the future.

 

Bared timeline of Magdalene and Eva

• Saturday (fundraiser): Magdalene essentially called Eva as s*** and claimed she (Magdalene) was the one he respected. Being a b****? yes. But dishonest? No. Magdalene had herself fooled into thinking she was somehow filling the hole Corrine left years ago, and she had every reason to believe Eva would go right on the reject pile like every other woman Gideon f****.
• Monday lunchtime: (Eva and Gideon become a couple): Eva expressly warned Gideon she had a problem with Magdalene, including telling him almost word for word what Magdalene had said, details he hadn't known about. He got mad about what happened and promised to deal with Magdalene, so moving forward, Magdalene would not be a problem.
• Monday afternoon? I think Gideon called Magdalene, chewed her out and informed Magdalene that Eva was now his full-fledged girlfriend. And I think Magdalene believed him, felt a little bad about how mean she'd been, and promised him she'd treat Eva with respect moving forward. Sure, Magdalene probably hoped the Gideon/Eva thing was just a fling that would burn itself out. But she valued her old friendship with Gideon enough that she didn't want to endanger it.
• By Tuesday morning: Plastered all over the Internet are pictures of Gideon kissing Eva and stories that they're serious.
• Tuesday night: Magdalene ran into Gideon at the restaurant where he'd attended a business meeting. Outside, they talked, and they both looked happy. Gideon later tried re-assuring Eva the happy look in his eyes was because he was talking about her (Eva). I think that even though Magdalene undoubtedly was jealous, she was happy for him. But .... the two of them standing there together looked incriminating in a paparazzi picture someone got
• By Wednesday morning: Plastered all over the Internet are false stories and pictures Eva and Cary have something going on and that Gideon had run right to Magdalene the night before because of it.
• By Thursday morning: plastered all over the Internet are pictures of Gideon and Eva arguing out in public - stuff that includes them passionately making up.
• Friday morning: Magdalene shows up at Eva's office to try to talk to her.

 

I think Magdalene's main motive was to make sure Gideon wasn't in trouble anymore because of those pictures of him talking to her (Magdalene) that hit the Internet on Wednesday. Perhaps Magdalene might wanted to make sure for herself, too, those rumors Eva was juggling two boyfriends (Gideon and Cary) weren't true. Because Magdalene cares a lot for Gideon as a friend.

i agree with you. That's why retreading these books is a must. Not just because they are addictive and we love Gideon and Eva, but because as you go through the books, things that happened earlier on suddenly fall into place.

Magdalene at last realised her and Gideon was never going to happen, keeping him as a friend was her only option. The penny finally dropped!

[julie54]

You're welcome, Julie. I know there's a huge international following here, with regulars from England (like you), Italy, South Africa, Australia .... Crossfire is a global phenomena.

 

Because I have years of actual professional experience with some of these constitutional rights that govern the criminal courts and the press in the United States, I can recognize the way many things in the fictional story could unfold in real life in the U.S. But other nations have their own systems too, and some of those systems handle things differently. 

 

It makes me smile that you're British, because the way things used to be run in your nation two centuries ago was perhaps the biggest factor in the decisions made by the American leaders who created this country's constitution. The founding fathers didn't want a monarchy, they wanted a democracy. They came up with a system they thought would best protect a democracy -- protect the citizens against possible abuse of power by the rulers of the government.

 

The main body of the Constitution itself created the system of government: Presidency, Congress, U.S. Supreme Court. The Amendments are additions to it. It's been amended 27 times thus far over the years, changes that did things such as outlaw slavery and give women the right to vote.

 

But the first ten of the Amendments came in one fell-swoop at the beginning in order to try to guarantee crucial rights citizens have to protect them from possible abuses of power. We call those first ten The Bill of Rights, and even 200+ years later, they're still in every day use.

 

Among the Bill of Rights guarantees are: free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, right to bear arms, rights of individuals accused of crimes to have fair and open trials, the rights of individual states to have their own state government systems .... yada, yada, yada ....

glad we could help with your countries constitution. I think ours desperately needs updating lol. But we won't go there!

[julie54]

I loved Gideon for these two passages.

His hands brushed the hair away from my face, then wiped my tears of relief. "I'm always hard for you, always hot for you. I'm always half-crazy with wanting you. If anything could change that. I would've done it before we got this far. Understand?"

My hands wrapped round his wrists.

"Now, show me that you still want me after that." His face was flushed and damp, his eyes dark and turbulent. "I need to know that losing control doesn't mean that I've lost you"

Oh Gideon! why didn't you confide in Eva. This would have been an ideal opportunity to bare your soul too.

This evening was an emotional roller caster ride for these two, ending with Eva doing another runner. Shaking my head here!

[julie54]

One more thing, this about Monica's paranoia the seals on court records were broken by Nathan's death.

This does not mean the records all of a sudden became public - that any reporter could now simply go to the courthouse(s) and ask to see the files. But what it does mean is now is that certain insiders within the courts have very valid reasons for looking into files normally they'd be forbidden to open. Court personnel aren't allowed to look into sealed files just for the h*** of it. But when they have very valid reason to, they most certainly are.

The pool of insiders who know about the old Nathan records just got a whole lot larger. Now it's not just the folks who had been involved a decade ago, whose promise to silence Stanton bought. Now there are some people who presently work in the courts who now know about the old records, because of the murder investigation. Additionally, there are now cops (like Detective Graves) who have seen (and gotten copies of) all the records. The circumstances under which Nathan died made his legal past an open book to the NYPD. Nathan's records have gone from buried in the archives to suddenly going through the hands cops/court insiders.

would Victor be able to access these records, using police computers or just investigating Nathan in general?

.

[LN Cronan]

would Victor be able to access these records, using police computers or just investigating Nathan in general?

.

 

No, not easily accessing regular computer records. The best he might come up with through main everyday channels is an indication some sort of juvie criminal record exists. But none of the details, and certainly not the full court files themselves. The fact they're sealed records means that even insiders cannot just get at them.

 

It's a little like Top Secret documents. Only people with proper clearance and proper reason to do so can get access to top secret documents. The same sort of principle applies with sealed court records.

 

From the time Nathan's criminal case and Monica's damages case against his father settled, to the day Nathan turned up murdered,  all those sealed court records basically were buried. No one had legitimate reason to go into them, and they were kept separate from other files, physically and electronically. But because of the nature of his death, now there are people with legitimate reasons to be in there, and there are even copies floating around now (such as in the murder investigation files.)

 

Victor couldn't just get into them himself -- but -- it wouldn't be too hard for him to get them through back channels. In fact, he'd have a much easier time than some reporter at getting his hands on them. It wouldn't be too hard to convince someone on the inside to give him the information. Why not? He's a police officer who happens to be the father of a rape victim, the rapist has turned up murdered, and the chief suspect in the murder is his daughter's ex (so he'd think) boyfriend. Who wouldn't want to help out a fellow officer of the law wanting to protect his daughter? Especially someone who might fear Gideon's very dangerous himself.

[sscrph]

As I reread the books again I am always struck by that helpless yearning that Eva describes in Gideon's eyes throughout the book. He so wants a normal life for himself with this beyond beautiful , generous woman that he describes as the other half of himself but there always seems to be something getting in the way of his HEA. Whether its the specter of Nathan, or his own abuse, his parasomnia, his enemies, his exes, and now the murder investigation. Someone had posted earlier that they were surprised he is still sane and I second that motion. I just want to see Gideon relaxed and happy and at peace with himself maybe by Book 5...

[julie54]

As I reread the books again I am always struck by that helpless yearning that Eva describes in Gideon's eyes throughout the book. He so wants a normal life for himself with this beyond beautiful , generous woman that he describes as the other half of himself but there always seems to be something getting in the way of his HEA. Whether its the specter of Nathan, or his own abuse, his parasomnia, his enemies, his exes, and now the murder investigation. Someone had posted earlier that they were surprised he is still sane and I second that motion. I just want to see Gideon relaxed and happy and at peace with himself maybe by Book 5...

it was me that questioned his sanity. To withstand that sort of turmoil, you would need to be a strong character which he is when his mask is in place. But underneath he is a broken man. As you say, he needs his HEA just as much as Eva. With her love and therapy, he will get there.

[gabri]

Hello everybody!!!

Here are my favourite lines in Chap. 13:

1) (Eva) "I don't think you know how your desire makes me feel."..."It makes me feel beautiful. It makes me feel strong and alive."

2) (Gedeon) "I need to know that losing control doesn't mean I've lost you."

3) (Gedeon) "You are so brave, Eva. So strong and honest. You're a miracle. My miracle."

[LN Cronan]

Re-reading some things about Monica's background reminded me that for all her short-comings as a materialistic person, she is a loving person. And I imagine some trouble in her own childhood may explain why she mishandles things sometimes and makes bad choices -- every bit as much as Eva has (and Gideon too).

 

We know most of Eva's bad choices, past and present, driven by childhood demons. Troublemaker, anger problem, promiscuous, low self-esteem, over-reacts. She's come a long way but still does bad things. Like kissing Brett. She's slapped Gideon twice. She ran out of his apartment late at night dressed only in a bathrobe to take a cab home. Those are the things I can think of off the top of my head. She's a good person who sometimes is a bad girlfriend, is the bottom line.

 

Monica is a good person with flaws of her own. Here are some theories I have about what has driven her, good and bad.

 

Childhood? She came from money and was a debutante, which indicates she came from "old money" -- high society. Appearances meant everything to her family, it would appear, so much so that to avoid the "shame" of Ms. Monica Trammel getting "knocked up" by some "grease monkey" (Victor was a mechanic when they met) her family tried to force her to get an abortion. And disinherited her when she refused. Nathan got disinherited from his rich father for good reason. But Monica? Simply because she chose to keep her baby.

 

Victor? OK, so she wouldn't marry him or even give the baby his last name. But she did name the girl Eva after his mother. Victor was allowed to be a part of his daughter's life. And Monica genuinely loved Victor. He was more than just some fling to her. She wasn't some rich girl using some guy for sex. She was honest, though, that she wanted things in life he couldn't provide.

 

First husband, Barker? From what Eva said, her mother had been happy in the marriage. She got the financial protection that I'm sure she craved by then, having been rejected by her own family. And she was willing to take over the day-to-day raising of both Eva and Nathan while Mr. Barker travelled for work. Yes, by far the worst mistake Monica made was to not be paying close enough attention to both those children. However, once she did find out, she took immediate action to protect Eva -- protect her then and protect her in the future too. Made sure of Eva's financial security. And cut all ties to the Barker family, not just Nathan.

 

Stalking Eva? Monica went from one extreme to another over extreme guilt. Having failed to protect Eva, now Monica is hopelessly trying to over-protect Eva. She's literally sick about it -- sick in that with good reason, Dr. Petersen is treating her for unhealthy obsessive behaviors. Like the cell-phone stalking thing. Eva made a good point when she accused Stanton of keeping her (Eva) sick too when he enables Monica's sickness. Is it any wonder everyone kept Nathan's reappearance a secret from Eva? Because Eva herself enabled people to over-protect her. Instead of standing up to her mother, she usually backed down. Instead of demanding honesty from Gideon, she either backed down, or worse, bailed.

[LN Cronan]

glad we could help with your countries constitution. I think ours desperately needs updating lol. But we won't go there!

 

Julie. The leaders who founded the United States of America out of what had been, before then, thirteen British colonies on the eastern side of North America, did incorporate much of the what they liked about the British system, and even more than two centuries later, there still are many similarities in how things are done on "both sides of the Atlantic." Even much of the legal heritage is based on many centuries of English history.

 

And .... we do have an Aston Martin that's a clue to Entwined. So it could be some of the plot takes place over on your side of the ocean. You could be helping us with background stuff less than a month from now.

[julie54]

Julie. The leaders who founded the United States of America out of what had been, before then, thirteen British colonies on the eastern side of North America, did incorporate much of the what they liked about the British system, and even more than two centuries later, there still are many similarities in how things are done on "both sides of the Atlantic." Even much of the legal heritage is based on many centuries of English history.

 

And .... we do have an Aston Martin that's a clue to Entwined. So it could be some of the plot takes place over on your side of the ocean. You could be helping us with background stuff less than a month from now.

hi LN Cronan

I would be very happy to oblige. I love that our two countries have so much in common. I have sampled your countrys hospitality on many occasions, I will be returning next year.

As much as we would love to have Gideon and Eva in England, from the time frame in the book, do you think a trip across the pond is possible? Also if Gideon (although he has not been charged) is chief suspect, wouldn't he have to surrender his passport?

You would be very welcome in my home if you fancy some English hospitality. :)

[julie54]

Re-reading some things about Monica's background reminded me that for all her short-comings as a materialistic person, she is a loving person. And I imagine some trouble in her own childhood may explain why she mishandles things sometimes and makes bad choices -- every bit as much as Eva has (and Gideon too).

 

We know most of Eva's bad choices, past and present, driven by childhood demons. Troublemaker, anger problem, promiscuous, low self-esteem, over-reacts. She's come a long way but still does bad things. Like kissing Brett. She's slapped Gideon twice. She ran out of his apartment late at night dressed only in a bathrobe to take a cab home. Those are the things I can think of off the top of my head. She's a good person who sometimes is a bad girlfriend, is the bottom line.

 

Monica is a good person with flaws of her own. Here are some theories I have about what has driven her, good and bad.

 

Childhood? She came from money and was a debutante, which indicates she came from "old money" -- high society. Appearances meant everything to her family, it would appear, so much so that to avoid the "shame" of Ms. Monica Trammel getting "knocked up" by some "grease monkey" (Victor was a mechanic when they met) her family tried to force her to get an abortion. And disinherited her when she refused. Nathan got disinherited from his rich father for good reason. But Monica? Simply because she chose to keep her baby.

 

Victor? OK, so she wouldn't marry him or even give the baby his last name. But she did name the girl Eva after his mother. Victor was allowed to be a part of his daughter's life. And Monica genuinely loved Victor. He was more than just some fling to her. She wasn't some rich girl using some guy for sex. She was honest, though, that she wanted things in life he couldn't provide.

 

First husband, Barker? From what Eva said, her mother had been happy in the marriage. She got the financial protection that I'm sure she craved by then, having been rejected by her own family. And she was willing to take over the day-to-day raising of both Eva and Nathan while Mr. Barker travelled for work. Yes, by far the worst mistake Monica made was to not be paying close enough attention to both those children. However, once she did find out, she took immediate action to protect Eva -- protect her then and protect her in the future too. Made sure of Eva's financial security. And cut all ties to the Barker family, not just Nathan.

 

Stalking Eva? Monica went from one extreme to another over extreme guilt. Having failed to protect Eva, now Monica is hopelessly trying to over-protect Eva. She's literally sick about it -- sick in that with good reason, Dr. Petersen is treating her for unhealthy obsessive behaviors. Like the cell-phone stalking thing. Eva made a good point when she accused Stanton of keeping her (Eva) sick too when he enables Monica's sickness. Is it any wonder everyone kept Nathan's reappearance a secret from Eva? Because Eva herself enabled people to over-protect her. Instead of standing up to her mother, she usually backed down. Instead of demanding honesty from Gideon, she either backed down, or worse, bailed.

hi. I agree with what you say regarding Monica's mental health.

My post may have come across as rather harsh, demonising Monica . But as a mother myself i felt she seriously let Eva down. Yes she loves her, wants the best for her and feels guilty about her abuse. But Eva was tortured and raped for four years, with no one lifting a finger to help her. How could she miss the signs? They must have been glaring at her.

I hope Monica now lets Eva live her life as an adult, and guilt free.

[LN Cronan]

hi LN Cronan

I would be very happy to oblige. I love that our two countries have so much in common. I have sampled your countrys hospitality on many occasions, I will be returning next year.

As much as we would love to have Gideon and Eva in England, from the time frame in the book, do you think a trip across the pond is possible? Also if Gideon (although he has not been charged) is chief suspect, wouldn't he have to surrender his passport?

You would be very welcome in my home if you fancy some English hospitality.

 

If he were charged, he'd have to surrender his passport - provided he even got bail to begin with. Often, people charged with first-degree murder are held without bail.

 

Technically, he could leave the country, but in practical terms, he'd most likely have been told by the cops to stick around and warned by his defense lawyers to not do anything that might look like he was trying to flee, lest prosecutors decide to jump the gun and charge him. The defense strategy at this point would be to prevent him from even getting charged. Fleeing (or even looking like fleeing) looks guilty as h*** and might push a prosecutor over the edge.

 

In fact, I wonder if his traveling might provoke the crisis showdown for the prosecutor - does he/she "go for it" and charge Gideon Cross with murder -- or -- does he/she decide against charging, because crucial evidence can't be used against him (and so there's no way the prosecution could get a conviction.)

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[gabri]

GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY & HI Julie!!

After a good night's sleep I've recovered my wits and made up my mind: Monica sucks!!!!

I don't know what muddled things up for me, but four years are too long a time for anyone.

I remeber reading somewhere that'Ignorance is a poor kind of innocence' and I realize now how well this line applies to Monica!

[julie54]

If he were charged, he'd have to surrender his passport - provided he even got bail to begin with. Often, people charged with first-degree murder are held without bail.

 

Technically, he could leave the country, but in practical terms, he'd most likely have been told by the cops to stick around and warned by his defense lawyers to not do anything that might look like he was trying to flee, lest prosecutors decide to jump the gun and charge him. The defense strategy at this point would be to prevent him from even getting charged. Fleeing (or even looking like fleeing) looks guilty as h*** and might push a prosecutor over the edge.

 

In fact, I wonder if his traveling might provoke the crisis showdown for the prosecutor - does he/she "go for it" and charge Gideon Cross with murder -- or -- does he/she decide against charging, because crucial evidence can't be used against him (and so there's no way the prosecution could get a conviction.)

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!

So I think we can agree, there's no trip to England then. Shame. I did wonder if things got a bit dodgy, and Gideon does leave/flee the country? Hence the luggage tags. I'd give him asylum. :)

[ShazScott1980]

Think we'd all give Gideon asylum!

He's got plenty of country's to flee too

[julie54]

GOOD EVENING EVERYBODY & HI Julie!!

After a good night's sleep I've recovered my wits and made up my mind: Monica sucks!!!!

I don't know what muddled things up for me, but four years are too long a time for anyone.

I remeber reading somewhere that'Ignorance is a poor kind of innocence' and I realize now how well this line applies to Monica!

hi Gabri

Your so lovely.

I did try to understand your point of view.

She should have taken more notice of Eva and Nathan for that matter. She should have seen how they interacted with each other, or not as the case maybe. Nathan ruined Eva's, Monica's, Gideons, and his fathers lives. They have a life sentence, his punishment is over.

Monica does love Eva, but some of the things she does are not motherly. Is she trying to live part of her life through Eva. The dress she bought her, trying to change Eva's image, having a bit of a sulk, when Eva and Cary went to Las Vegas.

She is a mother not her friend.

Lets hope she changes in EWY.

[julie54]

Think we'd all give Gideon asylum!

He's got plenty of country's to flee too

hi ShazScott

He can start in England, then ill send him up to you!! But I might forget where Scotland is and have to keep him!!! lol