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Reflected in You **spoiler thread**


Sylvia Day

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To anyone,

Does the story tell us yet what the pictures were, other than of Eva? I feel like we're assuming they are of the past when they might be of him stalking her in NYC...

In the meantime, I'm going back to find the references.

 

Hi Michele WV,

Sylvia doesn’t say specifically what photos of Nathan had of Eva. Monica confessed in RIY that Nathan had photos and videos of Eva and he was using that to help extort a payoff from Monica, Stanton and Gideon.

I surmised that the photos and videos must have been from Eva’s past rapes. It is the only thing I think would motivate these individuals to fork over that kind of cash. I think that Monica would be afraid for her daughter’s reputation and social status. What else could someone possibly produce that would incite enough fear to motivate another individual to payout blackmail.

I base that on the fact that so many socialites in today’s society bring out personal sex tapes or get caught doing drugs or one naughty thing or other. Regardless of their personal actions, their reputations manage to survive. Most of the media don’t really crucify these girls. These acts are just touted as acts of “youthful†indiscretion. They do a little community service, front a charity or two and then all is forgotten. This is the one thing, in my opinion that cannot be forgotten.

I realize that this is just strictly speculation and that nothing has been written about this. My thought is that maybe Nathan said something along the lines of; “I did it before and I can do it again…†If a person couples that with Nathan producing a few photos of Nathan stalking Eva, I think that would be enough to motivate these individuals to payout cash.

When Nathan showed up at Stanton and Gideon’s office he most likely brought copies of the photos and videos. I don’t think that he would have shown up with the originals. It would be too high risk, Stanton or Gideon could have destroyed his potential “blackmail evidenceâ€.

Otherwise why wouldn’t Monica, Stanton and Gideon contact the police? Nathan was committing several crimes and Nathan could have been arrested very easily? He had just tried to blackmail Monica, Stanton and Gideon and he also was stalking Eva. If his blackmail photos and video were all evidence of his previous rapes and torture, then Nathan could also have been charged with possession of child and attempt to distribute child p***. Someone else in the forum had made mention of that. What do you think?

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Hi LNCronan,

Your theory has always been that Gideon went to Nathan’s hotel room and Gideon got him to open the door. Your theory has always stated that. What has changed? If anything it has been other members who have stated that it was Monica who went to Nathan’s hotel room and got him to open the door. Your theory never accounted to how Nathan might potentially react to seeing Gideon after he had been previously beaten up by him earlier in the day. How do you account for that?

It has always been my assertion that Monica got Nathan to open the door and that she probably killed him perhaps with the help of others (Stanton, Clancy, etc.). Why would Gideon need Monica if he was going to kill Nathan himself? Why would Gideon involve Monica? The more people that know he committed this crime the greater the risk to him eventually getting caught.

Could it be that you are finally coming over to Camp Monica, Stanton, Clancy, etc? :)

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Hi LNCronan,

If the stab wound went straight into Nathan (dead centre...no pun intended), it would have ended his life immediately. The stab wound itself would have interrupted the cardiac rhythm and as such there would be no more beating.

Something else occurred to me, if Stanton, Monica or Gideon decided to payoff Nathan’s blackmail, then who’s to say that Nathan wouldn’t have come back for another “handoutâ€. If people are willing to payout blackmail once, won’t they be forced to do it again and again? Once a sucker always a sucker.

Could it be that one or more of these individuals realized this, decided to stall Nathan and then went about trying to figure out a plan to have Nathan killed?

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Hi LNCronan,

We have some idea about what the cops asked Cary. We however don’t know everything and since we have been wildly speculating here, it is possible that the cops could have asked questions that we the readers are not privy to. I also think that if Cary was asked questions that would have upset Eva, then I am not so sure that he would have divulged that kind of information.

Cary got a firsthand look at how Eva reacted when the Detectives started questioning her about Nathan. Bottom line is, although Cary has a mischievous streak, I don’t think that he is cruel and he wouldn’t do anything purposely that would emotionally hurt Eva.

It also occurred to me that the detectives would have seen how Cary reacted when Detective Graves started asking Eva questions about Nathan. Surely that wasn’t lost on these seasoned pros.

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And what if none of our beloved characters or the characters we know of thus far killed Nathan! What if, being the serial predator that he is, that another one of Nathan's victims ended his life??!

Point is, I think why he was killed off so quickly (yes, pun intended all around) was because he is not relevant. I honestly think that if he was that relevant that the showdown would have been between him and Eva and her putting her Krav Manga(sp?) skills to use.

I respectfully surmise that Nathan's life ending had nothing to do with any of the characters thus far. I thought at one point Monica, but I don't think so. I then thought he and Corrine met that time he went to the Crossfire and when Corrine looked all freshly sex flushed. I am still contemplating this but overall I think equally plausible is that Nathan was killed by someone else.

Someone like him, Eva was not his only victim. Hence why I continue to maintain whatever happened to him should be wrapped (maybe pun intended) up in as few sentences as possible, a couple of paragraps the most. I don't recall which forum this was stated but just wanted to comment on this a little.

Ps- someone commented about grammatical errors and I just want to point out that folks tend to think way faster than typing and ultimately despite the grammatical errors, we still understand the comments so I don't think its an issue. I for one have made significant grammatical errors.

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Hi LNCronan,

Your theory has always been that Gideon went to Nathan’s hotel room and Gideon got him to open the door. Your theory has always stated that. What has changed? If anything it has been other members who have stated that it was Monica who went to Nathan’s hotel room and got him to open the door. Your theory never accounted to how Nathan might potentially react to seeing Gideon after he had been previously beaten up by him earlier in the day. How do you account for that?

It has always been my assertion that Monica got Nathan to open the door and that she probably killed him perhaps with the help of others (Stanton, Clancy, etc.). Why would Gideon need Monica if he was going to kill Nathan himself? Why would Gideon involve Monica? The more people that know he committed this crime the greater the risk to him eventually getting caught.

Could it be that you are finally coming over to Camp Monica, Stanton, Clancy, etc? :)

 

 

Hi LNCronan,

Your theory has always been that Gideon went to Nathan’s hotel room and Gideon got him to open the door. Your theory has always stated that. What has changed? If anything it has been other members who have stated that it was Monica who went to Nathan’s hotel room and got him to open the door. Your theory never accounted to how Nathan might potentially react to seeing Gideon after he had been previously beaten up by him earlier in the day. How do you account for that?

It has always been my assertion that Monica got Nathan to open the door and that she probably killed him perhaps with the help of others (Stanton, Clancy, etc.). Why would Gideon need Monica if he was going to kill Nathan himself? Why would Gideon involve Monica? The more people that know he committed this crime the greater the risk to him eventually getting caught.

Could it be that you are finally coming over to Camp Monica, Stanton, Clancy, etc? :)

 

Gideon didn't have to get Nathan to open his door -- Gideon did it himself with a master key. He owns the place, and a master key (key card, that is) would be all too easy for him to get. Housekeepers use them every day. Hotel management carries them too. 

 

Not only would a master key get Gideon into the room quickly, it would get him in quietly. No need to knock. No need to argue "open the door" if Nathan was refusing to do so.

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Gideon didn't have to get Nathan to open his door -- Gideon did it himself with a master key. He owns the place, and a master key (key card, that is) would be all too easy for him to get. Housekeepers use them every day. Hotel management carries them too. 

 

Not only would a master key get Gideon into the room quickly, it would get him in quietly. No need to knock. No need to argue "open the door" if Nathan was refusing to do so.

I totally agree with this that is why I think Monica and Stanton were not involved in this phase of Gideon's plan. I think they were involved from a security standpoint prior to this but that is all. To quote Eva, Gideon has probably been alone all his life. There is no way he would involve outsiders in such a personal undertaking. The only one in Gideon's world is Eva...What do you all think?

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Gideon's unique ability to get into Nathan's room quickly and quietly, totally catching Nathan off guard, I think is the most convincing argument of all that Gideon stabbed him. He let himself in, stood there in front of the closed door, got Nathan to approach him, then stabbed him.

No banging on the door to get let in. No chasing Nathan around that room, which would get overheard. Most of all, no leaving fiber evidence all around that room. The only possible fiber evidence Gideon might have left behind, immediately inside the door, is going to get destroyed by the parade of people later walking in and out of that room -- from the housekeeper who probably found the body to the crew from the medical examiner's office hauling the body away.

People are assuming, because Nathan was found just inside the door, that Nathan opened it for his killer. It's very clever of Sylvia to make us assume Nathan opened that door, because there are at least three people he might -- MIGHT -- have been persuaded to do it for. The three who could "show him the money" -- Monica, Stanton, Gideon.

But the alternative is this. Gideon got through that door on his own by using a master key. He shut the door and stood there. Then said something to trick Nathan into walking up to him. Something like, "OK, you win -- I'll pay whatever you want." It was Detective Graves' theory that Nathan attacked Cary in order to intimidate Gideon into finally paying the blackmail.

He gets Nathan to walk up to him and then -- BAM -- whips out the knife and drives it right into Nathan's heart. Nathan drops to the floor and in under a minute, his heart will have stopped beating forever. Gideon looks out the peephole, makes sure there's no one in the hallway, and slips out of the room.

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And what if Nathan was killed by someone who we have not being introduced to??? Eva is not his only victim and that's not the first time he will try to extort money from folks. What if, his death had nothing to do with anyone in the book---> then this opens the door for his storyline to be wrapped up nicely.

Christopher Jr and Brett I feel there is much more interesting developments to be gained by probing that angle in terms of the mischief (in different ways) they can create. Re: Corrine/Brett fling potential will lead to some real interesting developments/turn of events no?! Lol

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I don't think Cary was attacked to intimidate Gideon. He was attacked (I think) because Nathan saw Eva with Cary in a warm embrace when they were having lunch. He told her to stay away from her.

KiMa

Why do you think there's other victims? Yeah the guy sounds like a but I don't recall reading about others.

I agree! I think that Nathan attacked Cary because of Eva...

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Gideon's unique ability to get into Nathan's room quickly and quietly, totally catching Nathan off guard, I think is the most convincing argument of all that Gideon stabbed him. He let himself in, stood there in front of the closed door, got Nathan to approach him, then stabbed him.No banging on the door to get let in. No chasing Nathan around that room, which would get overheard. Most of all, no leaving fiber evidence all around that room. The only possible fiber evidence Gideon might have left behind, immediately inside the door, is going to get destroyed by the parade of people later walking in and out of that room -- from the housekeeper who probably found the body to the crew from the medical examiner's office hauling the body away.People are assuming, because Nathan was found just inside the door, that Nathan opened it for his killer. It's very clever of Sylvia to make us assume Nathan opened that door, because there are at least three people he might -- MIGHT -- have been persuaded to do it for. The three who could "show him the money" -- Monica, Stanton, Gideon.But the alternative is this. Gideon got through that door on his own by using a master key. He shut the door and stood there. Then said something to trick Nathan into walking up to him. Something like, "OK, you win -- I'll pay whatever you want." It was Detective Graves' theory that Nathan attacked Cary in order to intimidate Gideon into finally paying the blackmail.He gets Nathan to walk up to him and then -- BAM -- whips out the knife and drives it right into Nathan's heart. Nathan drops to the floor and in under a minute, his heart will have stopped beating forever. Gideon looks out the peephole, makes sure there's no one in the hallway, and slips out of the room.

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LN Cronan you raise a good point about fiber evidence at the crime scene because Gideon does wear custom made suits and this may distinguish him from other visitors to Nathan's room if he was in fact there and this evidence was collected. What do you all think?

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Gideon violently attacked Nathan when Nathan visited him at the Crossfire building; Gideon subsequently violently attacked Brett for kissing Eva and you guys really think he will then just neatly deal with Nathan like that????

As the detective stated, there wasn't any disruption to the hotel room, and there was just once punch with an object to the heart etc.

There would be more violence if Gideon was involved in delivering the final blow. This was done by a professional

I continue to maintain Gideon did not kill Nathan......

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I think the nickname "Ace" fits Gideon. He got started by counting cards to win lots of money playing blackjack, and now casinos are a big part of his financial empire.

Gideon didn't like it at first, because it was the nickname of some character in a book and he used to be so insecure he was a little jealous of even an imaginary man Eva liked.

But it's really grown on him. I wonder whether this is the first time in his life someone gave him a special nickname.

The "Ace" book character became a little special part of the wonderful weekend in North Carolina. Among the many things Gideon made sure were stocked at the house were those books. Eva ended up reading passages aloud to him.

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Gideon was able to stop himself from beating Nathan into a bloody pulp in his office. Only a little bit of blood was left on the cuff of his sleeve, so little that Eva mistook it for lipstick.

This was a very smart thing for Gideon to do -- shut himself off after probably just one punch. Beating Nathan to a pulp at the Crossfire would have needed a lot of explaining to do. Including the cops when Nathan ended up in the emergency room. And Eva would have ended up finding out about the rape pictures because of it.

I can see Gideon suddenly thinking about the possible consequences to Eva, and that's what got him to stop. That and his own thought "I'll come up with a better way to deal with this sicko. One that's going to protect Eva."

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MiKa

I agree with you. If Gideon would have done it he would have beat him to death! I'm just wondering what opportunity Gideon was referring to when he told Eva that them being apart was the price of it.

 

Here's my thoughts, ladies ....

 

"Motive and opportunity" are the two legal elements a prosecutor must establish to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt Gideon committed murder.

 

Gideon set up the opportunity by making sure both he and Eva had alibis and placing himself where he could quickly get to Nathan's hotel and then back to a publicity event that was his cover. He set a small fire to temporarily interrupt the party and empty the place where it was being held. Amid the crowd of people milling around outside, Gideon made sure he was seen moving about -- then he slipped away, killed Nathan, and got back to the party. 

 

But part of the opportunity required having to deal with his motive he loved Eva so much he'd do anything to protect her. To prevent the prosecution from convincingly establishing that motive, well ahead of the murder he started publicly behaving like he'd rejected her. He fooled the media (and unfortunately Eva herself) into believing he'd begun seeing Corrine again.

 

However, he ended up forced to cut off all contact with Eva within 24 hours of the body being found Friday morning, because he'd messed up twice in front of the lead homicide detective. His first mistake was being at Eva's apartment Friday night when the detectives showed up. Then he made a huge mistake taking Eva's phone call Saturday morning, ending up devastated while he was at the police station. After that, he avoided any contact whatsoever with her (well, managed to keep that up for almost two weeks.) That was the price -- them being completely apart.

 

Bottom line: When he risked contacting Eva again, he told her he had seized an opportunity but the price was their being apart. At the time she (and thus we readers) may have assumed the opportunity was the chance to work through unfinished business with Corrine. The truth was he seized the opportunity to stop Nathan forever, but price was he could not go back to Eva any time soon, because he was now the chief murder suspect.

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