Reflected in You **spoiler thread**

[MicheleWV]

AMC,

He was an obsessed sicko, so yes. Victor was around plus she and Cary are inseparable. If she were my daughter, she would have been guarded from a distance knowing that he was free. But I would feel good knowing dad and friend had her back.

But when someone wants to get you, they can and will given an opportunity. Only takes a minute when no one's looking. Gideon knew it was a matter of time.

[GiGi]

 

I agree Gideon didn't know about Nathan until Eva told him. Remember, all those records were sealed originally, and then years later, Stanton went back and tightened the secrecy even further. He paid people involved money in exchange for them signing non-disclosure agreements. Meaning that if they later violated those agreements they were paid for, Stanton could seriously sue their butts in civil court on top of any other civil or even criminal legal consequences they'd face (for example, a doctor revealing patient info.)

 

In essence, Stanton quite legally bribed all of those folks to keep quiet. Probably paid them pretty handsomely too in return for signing a piece of paper. Trust me, they'd keep their mouths shut. Stanton may not be the gazillionaire Gideon is, but Stanton is a very wealthy man in his own right, and has the power of money, something he's all too willing to use in order to make Monica happy. And what he was doing was on behalf of the mother of a child rape victim. I'm sure the folks gladly signed those papers and took the payment for doing so, knowing they were helping to shield a victim.

 

Gideon had been doing some digging into Eva's past. He may or may not have known about Brett and Eva prior to the post-concert kissing incident. His friend, Arnoldo, thinks Gideon would have none (a remark he made in the limo right after Shawna made the connection that Eva was the woman in the song Golden.)

 

Hi LNCronan,

I wouldn’t go so far as to say that Stanton legally bribed everyone; I think that there are some things that should remain private. There are so many people in today’s society that seem to have no problem revealing confidential information if the “price is rightâ€. One only need look at today’s media to see one “scandal†or other being revealed by a “confidential sourceâ€.

I agree with you, it shouldn’t have to come down to a monetary transaction in order to get a person to honour the terms of their employment or to even have the common decency to say nothing. As far as Stanton is concerned, the worst that can happen to a person who signs a confidential agreement all he can do is sue the person. The only situation that could have criminal consequences is if a physician leaks patient records without the consent (of the patient).

[GiGi]

Hi everyone,

After reading the books, I wonder if Eva got fed up with her mother’s controlling ways. That’s why she went to live with her father. What I want to know is; why did Eva leave San Diego to fly all the way to New York. Somehow I don’t know that Monica/Stanton buying Eva an apartment would have been incentive enough.

Could it be that Eva was running from her “second†past (her wild partying days, etc.)? I wonder if we will get to see a little more insight into that part of Eva’s past. What state did Monica live with Nathan’s father? Could Eva have been running from that situation as well?

I also wonder where Monica could have been that naive to think that the court system would be enough to prevent Nathan from contacting Nathan. The only physical way that Nathan could have been prevented from contacting Eva in the earlier days, could possibly have been if he was sent to a juvenile detention centre. If Nathan was still young his father may have had some control over Nathans’ actions but once he was disowned, Nathan was free to do as he pleased. What does everyone think?

[LN Cronan]

Eva went to live in San Diego when she was of college age, and thus legally old enough to move out on her mother. My feeling is she did so to escape Monica's smothering ways. And upon leaving, the wild side she'd had to keep hidden from Mom would erupt.

 

Eva went to San Diego to attend San Diego State, which her Dad insisted upon paying tuition for. But nowhere does it say Eva moved in with her father. In fact, that would be highly unlikely -- if the whole point was to have some freedom, Eva isn't going to move out on one parent to move in with another. Especially when the other parent is an ordinary cop, who probably has a modest apartment. Eva would have moved into the college dorms initially and probably gotten her own small apartment sometime later.

[GiGi]

Hi LNCronan,

You make an interesting point about whether Eva moved in with her father or not. We know that Eva's father paid for her University, I just wonder whether that would include her living expenses. We also know that Eva went to San Diego State University which is a land grant university so the tuition fees would be less expensive than at a private university.

What I wonder is whether Eva did actually move in with Victor because she wanted to spend time with her dad, get a change of scenery (i.e. away from her controlling mother's ways, her past, etc.)

I am not sure that Monica would have let Eva go under lesser circumstances. Nathan could still have been a potential threat to Eva and as such it wouldn’t make sense for Monica to allow her daughter to leave one state and go to another when there is a real dangerous threat that Nathan could still be after her. I could however see Monica agreeing to Eva leaving the State if she was to move in with her father.

I also don’t know how Victor could have found out about Eva’s wild ways and out of control behaviour unless he was there witnessing it for himself. If your argument for Eva being of legal age was the reason for her moving out then I can’t see Victor having leverage with his daughter to get help. If she wasn’t under his roof, having her bills paid by him, then where is the motivation for Eva to get help?

If Eva lived in a dorm as you suggested, then the most that Victor would probably get see to his daughter would be on weekends and holidays. Most parents, who visit their kids, visit on weekends and holidays. Something must have been going on in Eva’s life that was affecting her “daily†life which prompted her dad to get her help.

Victor is a cop who doesn’t make a lot of money, but he is also in debt (I suspect up to his eyeballs with Eva’s student debt). So I can’t see him also paying for another apartment for Eva to live in when it would be cheaper to have his daughter live with him. If you also factor in all of Eva’s counseling and therapy he had to pay for, I don’t that his dollars would stretch far enough to grant all of Eva’s wishes. What does everyone think?

[MrsCrossfire]

Victor Reyes was an Oceanside,Ca street cop which was why I'd chosen SdSu. My mom had been going through a rough patch with husband number two and I'd been in a rebellious phase, making my own life as I tried to forget what Nathan had done to me for so long. Moving out of my mom's suffocating orbit had been of the best decision I'd ever made. My dad's quietly unshakeable love for me, his only child had changed my life. He gave me much-needed freedom within clearly defined limits and arranged for me to see Dr Travis, which lead to the start of my long journey to recovery and my friendship with Cary. My relationship with my mom was rocky and it was just so easy with my dad.!

[LN Cronan]

Paying for school may or may not have included room and board (i.e the dorms.) It is possible she moved in with Victor, but I think it's more likely she lived on campus at first but saw him often. I can also see Monica eventually persuading her to live in a secure apartment building (like in New York, though not nearly as lavish) instead of a college dormitory. It's very common for students who go away to school full-time to live in a dorm at first, and it's not uncommon for students to eventually move off campus.

 

Victor insisted on paying for college, but I can see Monica having her way about helping to financially support Eva in other ways, from living expenses to spending money. I can't see Victor saying "no" to that, especially after he'd won the argument to pay for Eva's college education (i.e tuition plus possibly the dorms.) He wanted to make sure she got an education -- he wasn't totally supporting her in order to somehow get back at the fact her mother rejected him financially many years ago.

 

It's not like Eva was rejecting all of the financial security a wealthy, loving mother could provide, despite the fact her relationship was rocky with Mom. It was rocky -- it wasn't 100% estrangement. Look at how Eva acquiesced to moving (along with Cary) into that very fancy New York apartment. When Eva went away to school, she hadn't "run away from home" cut all ties with her mother and was still a minor that her other parent had to support. She just wanted to go away to school in order to get away from her mother's daily suffocation. I think it's sweet she decided at the same time, now that she was an adult and could live where she wanted, to move across the country in order to get to know her Dad.

 

As for counseling, full-time college students are required to have medical insurance (schools insist on this.) At the time, the eligibility age to remain on a parent's insurance would have been through age 21 (and now is through age 26). That would have paid for the counseling. Beyond that, Victor (who knew Dr. Travis) could have gotten a sliding-fee scale discount. Or, once Eva turned 21, Monica could have begun paying for Eva's medical insurance out of pocket herself. Again, I can't see Victor saying "no" to his daughter having less than the best insurance, in case she got sick or injured. Especially if that insurance guaranteed she could continue with counseling that apparently was working to help her get her head on straight.

 

Victor couldn't absolutely force his daughter into counseling (which is mental health medical treatment). She wasn't a minor anymore. But he could convince her to see a therapist, telling her he was very worried about her. And I can see her agreeing to abide by his wishes, because she knew (he didn't) she actually was a mess inside. I'm sure Victor saw lots of signs, open and subtle, that Eva was wild. In Bared, there is passing reference to Victor knowing about at least two wild boyfriends Victor did not approve of - some rock singer (this would have been Brett) and some scumbag boyfriend he pulled over one night (the one getting a b*** job from some other woman while he was driving.)

 

Bottom line -- Eva gives in to her mother a lot (frankly way too much) in order to appease her into getting off her back. She obviously loves and respects her Dad, and she pays attention to him when he is concerned. So even at her most rebellious, I can see her giving into many of their wishes.

[ShazScott1980]

In bared to you at chapter 6 we find out that for four years Eva and her dad lived close enough to see each other at least once a week. Something that Victor said to Eva made me think about the views of personal safety .

" some nights I wake up in a cold sweat thinking about you in New York . I get through it by telling myself you're too smart to take chances, thanks to two parents who've drilled safety rules into your DNA"

Evas Safety was obviously just as important to victor as it was Monica . Do we think victor investigated why Monica left Nathan's dad and why Eva had gone wild.

Victor loves his daughter could he be in cahoots with Gideon Stanton and Monica to rid the world of Nathan Barker.

When Monica saw Nathan at the crossfire on the Monday after Vegas did she and Stanton go to Gideon to ask what was happening ? Did Gideon tell him that he had seen Nathan the Thursday before Vegas the Thursday they went to dr Peterson as a couple for the first time. Did Gideon tell them that victor was going to visit did they then feel hat he needed to know and his expertise and police knowledge be used in getting Nathan out of Eva's life forever?

[KiMa]

Sylvia is going to be posting snap shots, twice a week every Tuesdays and Fridays. She just poste one now.

This is sooo fun!!! Now we get to really speculate.

The first one is out now, you guys seen it??? Thoughts?

[LN Cronan]

I saw it KiMa and a couple of us already started talking about it in the Snippets thread. But I'm thinking of starting a brand new thread "Weekly Clues"

 

What do folks think? New thread for clues versus adding them into the ongoing discussions both here in the main Reflected spoiler thread as well as the thread devoted to the Entwined snippets?

[MicheleWV]

My thought is I don't understand yet. Lol

[Bookworm]

I think its a good idea. ;-)I say yes to new thread

[AMC]

I say yes to the new thread

[Kirsten]

I say yes to new thread also.

[LN Cronan]

Done - new thread is created. Jump in!!!! SQUEEEEEE!!!!

[Bookworm]

Thanks :-)

[GiGi]

 

In bared to you at chapter 6 we find out that for four years Eva and her dad lived close enough to see each other at least once a week. Something that Victor said to Eva made me think about the views of personal safety .

" some nights I wake up in a cold sweat thinking about you in New York . I get through it by telling myself you're too smart to take chances, thanks to two parents who've drilled safety rules into your DNA"

Evas Safety was obviously just as important to victor as it was Monica . Do we think victor investigated why Monica left Nathan's dad and why Eva had gone wild.

Victor loves his daughter could he be in cahoots with Gideon Stanton and Monica to rid the world of Nathan Barker.

When Monica saw Nathan at the crossfire on the Monday after Vegas did she and Stanton go to Gideon to ask what was happening ? Did Gideon tell him that he had seen Nathan the Thursday before Vegas the Thursday they went to dr Peterson as a couple for the first time. Did Gideon tell them that victor was going to visit did they then feel hat he needed to know and his expertise and police knowledge be used in getting Nathan out of Eva's life forever?

 

Hi ShazScott1980,

Is it your theory that Victor already knew about Nathan? If Victor already knew then how does he factor into Nathan’s murder? If Victor knew about Eva’s past, then how do you think he would have reacted toward Monica? I am not sure that Victor would have been able to keep an even temper with Monica if he found out about her deceiving him all those years. I also don’t think that Victor would have purposely been in cahoots with Monica and Stanton.

I think that if he did indeed find out Eva’s past, he would have killed Nathan alone. I don’t think that he would have included others in the commission of a crime. He is a cop by profession and I think that his instincts would have kicked in. I don’t think that he would have purposely put other individuals at risk of losing their freedom by helping him commit the murder. I think that if Victor did commit the murder, he would have done it alone, covered up the crime as best he could (by cleaning up the murder scene, taking away crucial evidence, maybe even the video tapes of Eva’s rapes, or photos, etc.) and then he would have counseled everyone about “lawyering†up.

I also don’t think that Victor would have been able to continue to have a cordial relationship with Monica if he found out about the secrets Monica and Eva had both been keeping from him. I think that would have left him disillusioned with Ms. Monica and he would have dropped the “secret†torch he had been carrying for all these years. What do you think?

[AMC]

Do you think that there is any significance at the timing of Victor's visit to NYC to see Eva?

[KiMa]

Don't think Victor is as "clueless" as we may have been led to think. I think he knew what happened to Eva, knew Nathan was in town stalking her and he did his "impromptu" visit.

[KiMa]

Nathan is a serial rapist and Eva was not his only victim. Victor was I think tracking Nathan...

[ShazScott1980]

My theory is like KiMa Victor isn't as clueless as we think .and I think his visit has significance as to its timing

Ok GiGi I see where your coming from that Victor would carry out Nathan murder alone.

I think Victor already knows about Eva being raped by Nathan I think he's known about it since it all came out.

But I think he wanted Eva to tell him herself but understood why a daughter wouldn't want to discuss it with him.

I think Victor loves Monica and if he did know he would have seen that as soon as she knew she got her and Eva out of the situation.

It mirrored what Monica did when she fell pregnant with Eva she left the money of her family to carry on and have Eva doing what she felt was right. Monica left multi millionaire Mr Barker leaving monetary security that she felt she had to have , but doing what was right for her daughter ment leaving that ok she came out of that marriage with financial gain but that would give her lasting security .

I'm hoping that in EWY we will find out more about Victor.

[MrsCrossfire]

I think Victor had an inkling but I don't think he knew.! Remember Nathan was in NY before Eva and Cary went to Vegas and Gideon went to Arizona. If Victor thought Nathan was that much of a threat to Eva then why wait almost 2 weeks to get to NY..?

I think Eva almost wanting to pass out when the detectives ask her about Nathan is what may prompt Victor to look into Nathan and then he's going to find the truth.! Which will lead him to finding out about the investigation to Gideon, Victor said he couldn't get a read on Gideon that night but I think if he finds out the truth ( if Gideon really did kill Nathan) that will close the bridge between the two men. at that point he will know Gideon is protecting Eva rather then invading her privacy.

[AMC]

Mrs. Crossfire:

 

I am readng the quote on your avatar and wondering when Gideon says:

 

"......give up everything I own for you....."

 

Will Gideon have to give up everything he own to be with Eva?

He has already killed for her...

[LauraJ]

Mrs. Crossfire:

 

I am readng the quote on your avatar and wondering when Gideon says:

 

"......give up everything I own for you....."

 

Will Gideon have to give up everything he own to be with Eva?

He has already killed for her...

It's in chapter 1,  they are in the limo, and had just pulled up to the Crossfire Building.  He says "I'd kill for you," he whispered, "give up everything I own for you...but I won't give you up.  Two days is my limit.  Don't ask for more than that; I can't give it to you.:

[LN Cronan]

If Victor had known while he was in New York that his daughter had been systematically raped for four years as a child right under Monica's nose, no way would he have been so sweet and starry-eyed with Monica when he ran into her at Eva's apartment. No way. Besides, Victor arrived at LaGuardia Airport very early the next morning after Nathan's murder. Victor's got an alibi -- and the investigation was still in its earliest stages during the weekend Victor was there. No way would the cops have spoken to Victor yet, not when they were still working their way down the suspect list (at that point, the sole person they had definitely crossed off was Eva herself.)

I do think the timing of Victor's visit ended up being fate, because he ended up being right there when the homicide detectives first approached Eva and Gideon at Eva's apartment. He saw Eva do something that immediately excluded her as a suspect (her honest reaction she had no idea Nathan had been in New York.) And he also saw Gideon was hiding things from Eva: 1. Gideon had known about Nathan being in New York.  2. Gideon didn't want Eva to know where he'd been on Thursday. Overnight by using the Internet, Victor already figured out the second secret - behind Eva's back on Thursday night, Gideon had been partying with the ex-fiancee that the tabloids claimed Gideon had suddenly started seeing again a few days before.

My theory -- I'm certain that since then (in the couple of weeks that passed after Nathan died, up to the end of Reflected), Victor has been digging hard in the background from out in California. He's figured out Eva had no role in Nathan's death. He's likely already put together the fact Barker had been Monica's first husband (and thus Victor could figure out how long Nathan had been Eva's stepbrother starting when she was a little girl up to her early teens.)

 

However, he's probably been stymied thus far to get the whole story out of the detectives about Nathan having been in New York, what that had to do with Gideon, and most importantly -- have the cops come close yet to solving the case. I'll bet he'll have gotten no straight answers (yet) out of Graves and her partner. Gideon wouldn't have even returned any phone calls Victor tried making. I'll bet Victor has even begun trying to reach Monica by now, but Monica won't return his calls either.

Under my theory that Detective Graves is trying to use Eva to trap Gideon, I think Graves is going to start selectively feeding Victor info early in the Entwined story in the hopes that he will persuade Eva to cooperate with the police. For all we know, right after Graves finished talking to Eva at Krav Maga at the very end of Reflected, Graves picked up the phone to call Victor the instant Eva went running straight to Gideon's apartment. Graves has begun grasping at straws, and she'll try anything that might help her get Gideon. Including calling in Eva's father.