Gideon DID kill Nathan -- that's official from Sylvia in a live interview

[Kirsten]

Could Nathan at some point after being hospitalise, have fooled the doctors into thinking he was "cured", been released for the whole cycle to start again?

Eva would never be able to live her life free of worry while Nathan was still breathing.

Julie he was certainly released under the guise that he was no longer a threat to himself or others... obviously Eva would have never been safe from him.

[jeanmarie]

Julie is was certainly released under the guise that he was no longer a threat to himself or others... obviously Eva would have never been safe from him.

[gabri]

HELLO! Here are some guesses from me, too. G's killing could only make E's love for him stronger. She's an abused child who sees her lousy reaper disappear from her world. G has shown E that he knows what she's been through and that he's willing to go to such lengths to have her safe and happy not even her parents did. CIAO!!!

[LN Cronan]

From the Entwined excerpt -- this is what goes through Eva's head when she finds Gideon has sneaked into her apartment to see her soon after she'd learned what he'd done:

 

 

He must’ve been so worried about how I would react to what he’d done for me. To be honest, I’d been worried. Did my gratitude mean I was more twisted than I realized?

 

Then I remembered my stepbrother’s hands all over me… his weight pressing me into the mattress… the tearing pain between my legs as he rammed into me over and over…

 

I trembled with renewed fury. If being glad the f*****  was dead made me twisted, so be it.

[ShazScott1980]

HELLO! Here are some guesses from me, too. G's killing could only make E's love for him stronger. She's an abused child who sees her lousy reaper disappear from her world. G has shown E that he knows what she's been through and that he's willing to go to such lengths to have her safe and happy not even her parents did. CIAO!!!

Your right Gideon is willing to give the ultimate sacrifice to keep Eva safe.

Give up everything he owns but he won't give up on Eva

[Kirsten]

From the Entwined excerpt -- this is what goes through Eva's head when she finds Gideon has sneaked into her apartment to see her soon after she'd learned what he'd done:

 

 

He must’ve been so worried about how I would react to what he’d done for me. To be honest, I’d been worried. Did my gratitude mean I was more twisted than I realized?

 

Then I remembered my stepbrother’s hands all over me… his weight pressing me into the mattress… the tearing pain between my legs as he rammed into me over and over…

 

I trembled with renewed fury. If being glad the f*****  was dead made me twisted, so be it.

 

LN she also admits to being relieved about his death. At about 86% Eva says Nathan's death was a concern for us all, but the fact that he was gone from my life forever liberated me in a way I hadn't realized I'd needed. Somewhere in the back of my mind, the fear must have been lurking there. It was always a possibility that I could see him again as long as he was alive. Now I was free.

[Kirsten]

At 85%- In the back of my mind, I couldn't help but think that Gideon had arranged it. That made it harder for me to get over him, because there was a part of me-- the little girl I'd once been--who'd wanted Nathan dead for a long time.

[LN Cronan]

Does this make Eva bad like Gideon?

 

No.

 

What Gideon did, taking the law into his own hands, was wrong. But he's not evil. He is deeply flawed for very valid reasons. So is Eva. Sylvia is not making any apologies for the characters. They are who they are.

[Kirsten]

Does this make Eva bad like Gideon?

 

No.

 

What Gideon did, taking the law into his own hands, was wrong. But he's not evil. He is deeply flawed for very valid reasons. So is Eva. Sylvia is not making any apologies for the characters. They are who they are.

 

I agree.

[julie54]

They are who they are through no fault of they're own.

[jeanmarie]

I do believe Gideon killed Nathan now ,but Sylvia also didn't say how or excatly what happened..So I still think we have to wait to see excatly how it happened..something tells me were in for a big surprise as to how it went down..Some of us are wondering why would Sylvia tell us now, well I believe they way it happened wasn't just like he opened the door and Gideon stabbed him, I think its going to be a real eye opener out of left field.. Either way I still will be team Gideon!!

[AMC]

Could Nathan at some point after being hospitalise, have fooled the doctors into thinking he was "cured", been released for the whole cycle to start again?

Eva would never be able to live her life free of worry while Nathan was still breathing.

YES!! This does happen!

Nathan was a smart sociopath..

I definitely believe that he would have said all the right things and told the doctors what they wanted to hear---to make the doctors believe that he was no longer a danger to society.

[Donnad]

When he found about Nathan and confronted Stanton, did he start searching for Nathan then?   We will see.

[LN Cronan]

I do believe Gideon killed Nathan now ,but Sylvia also didn't say how or excatly what happened..So I still think we have to wait to see excatly how it happened..something tells me were in for a big surprise as to how it went down..Some of us are wondering why would Sylvia tell us now, well I believe they way it happened wasn't just like he opened the door and Gideon stabbed him, I think its going to be a real eye opener out of left field.. Either way I still will be team Gideon!!

 

I'm sure there will be some good plot twists about how it all went down.

 

All the info we readers have -- all that Eva knows -- is what Detective Graves told her (see pages 333-337 of Reflected.) We can't assume that's exactly what happened.

The cops may have gotten some of their theories wrong

It's possible Graves told Eva some half truths or even lied about some things, especially lied by omission, if it is true the cops are trying to set Gideon up by using Eva.

 

The only things we know for sure:

• Nathan is dead (duh, I know)
• His body was found Friday morning (that's what the cops said at Eva's apartment Friday night in front of everyone, including her father, a cop himself)
• Gideon was out partying with Corrine on Thursday evening (newspaper photo and press-release story about the PR event he hosted both document this).
• Detective Graves got Eva to confirm she (Eva) broke up with Gideon on Saturday morning (that is, Eva ended the relationship after Nathan was dead, not Gideon ended it before Nathan died.)
• The cops have been hounding Stanton too, including seizing copies of security videotapes from his office building. In fact, they'd taken videotapes just one day before Graves "ran into" Eva at the Krav Maga studio -- that's according to Eva's mother, who told her about it on the phone that evening.

 

So everything Graves said to Eva must be taken with a grain of salt.

[GiGi]

Hi everyone,

I have been thinking about what everyone has been saying and I have to wonder whether Nathan would have been able to use the "he was mentally ill excuse" and therefore he wasn't responsible for his actions.

I have been thinking about some many cases in the US where the defendants were clearly mentally ill and yet the juries all found those individuals mentally competent and guilty of their crimes.

 

The biggest example of that for me was the Andrea Yates case (a lady who had been suffering from post part um psychosis for years and finally snapped and drowned her five children and attempted to kill herself).  In this case:

1. Andrea first told her husband that she didn't want to have any more children (child 3) and that she was feeling depressed. She went to her doctor and he prescribed medication but her husband prevented her from taking it.  It could affect future pregnancies (could cause birth defects and such and she was physically going against God's order).    Her husband replied that she was going to go to if she physically prevented a pregnancy.  It was God's will, how many children she was supposed to have.

 

2. After the fourth pregnancy she started hearing voices and began complaining to her neighbours who took her to the hospital on a few occasions.  Each and every single time her husband came and had her discharged before she could receive proper treatment.  In the last case, the ER Physician deemed her not an immediate threat to herself or anyone else so he released her.

 

3.  Baby five comes along and Andrea is complaining to her doctor (of whom she was complaining to all along), is seen wandering through the streets, disoriented and unable to form rational thoughts.  She was hospitalized immediately to which end her husband came and had her discharged against medical advice.  They warned him that Andrea could be a danger not only to herself but to her children as well.  Her husband stated something along the lines of the God will look after Andrea.

 

4.  Within a few days after that incident Andrea drowned all five of her children in the bathtub and tried to kill herself. 

 

This was a woman who was clearly very mentally ill and yet, the jury couldn't stomach the fact that a woman would ever kill her children so they deemed her mentally competent and convicted her of first degree murder.  I think she got a sentence like that because of political reasons and not for actual factual reasons.  In the end her murder sentence was overturned because she was clearly mentally ill and did try repeatedly to get help but got shut down at every single turn.

 

Somehow I wonder if Nathan could use the excuse of his mental illness or whether the US people have simply had enough and they too would throw the book at Nathan.  I don't know what kind of mental illness Nathan could have had that would make him so sexually sadistic.  Most psychopaths and sociopath's aren't violent.  They realize that they don't fit into society because of their lack of ability to be able to follow social cues (compassion, empathy, etc.), so they do everything within their power to try and fit in.  So what made Nathan snap  and what was it in his make up to make him that way? 

 

I don't think that Nathan would have gotten a second bite at the "mental illness" apple.  It is just a gut instinct, but who knows maybe he would have.  We will never know.  I also think that given his past crimes, his effective breaking of the seal on his juvenile records through the attempted commission of other crimes would have given the judge leeway on giving Nathan the maximum sentence. 

 

If you add federal charges, I think Nathan wouldn't have seen the light of day again.   I can also see everyone's concerns that maybe things wouldn't go according to plan and that Nathan could have walked away a free man. 

 

One final thing, I think that although Nathan may have been able to fool the doctors the first time around, I don't think it would really have mattered.  Nathan was charged and sentenced as a juvenile and as such when he turned 21 his release would have been mandatory.  Now that he is an adult and has attempted to commit more very violent crimes and has been hanging on to trophies of his past crimes (i.e. the videotapes and photos), it could be argued that Nathan is a dangerous offender and that releasing him back into society would only be a recipe for disaster.  He could potentially receive a "dangerous offender" label and never be released (I would hope that the US has that designation for these types of cases) if he was found mentally incompetent. 

 

I don't think that Nathan would get a second chance at being able to fool his doctors.  He would have had Gideon, Monica, Stanton and Eva all rally for him remaining in prison.  What does everyone think?     

[julie54]

When Gideon was in Eva's flat, on the Friday for dinner with Victor and Ireland, his phone kept going off. Are we to assume it was his security team or Angus keeping him up to date of events and advising him?

[Donnad]

When Gideon was in Eva's flat, on the Friday for dinner with Victor and Ireland, his phone kept going off. Are we to assume it was his security team or Angus keeping him up to date of events and advising him?

Somebody was keeping him up to date.   

[AMC]

When Gideon was in Eva's flat, on the Friday for dinner with Victor and Ireland, his phone kept going off. Are we to assume it was his security team or Angus keeping him up to date of events and advising him?

I think that it was Corinne calling him....

[julie54]

Evening Gigi

What a terrible story. What that poor woman must have gone through, desperate for help and being let down. Her husband was as much to blame for their deaths.

Perhaps that's why Gideon took matters into his own hands. He had been let down, desperate for help, and no one believed him. It was his way of dealing with it.

[Ript]

As upset as we are that Gideon killed Nathan and as much as we love the characters of these amazing stories, we need to remember that this is a fictional story.

Gideon killed Nathan to protect Eva from having to deal with Nathan ever again. He was a detrimental threat to Eva. Even in courts today, you ever know how the court is going to rule and I don't think Gideon even thought that far in the future. He was eliminating what he perceived to be an imminent threat to Eva.

[julie54]

AMC

I think if it had been Corrine he would have let it go to voice mail, because he was a bit preoccupied with events unfurling before him. Things being tense between him and Eva were more important than the wicked witch.

[LN Cronan]

AMC

I think if it had been Corrine he would have let it go to voice mail, because he was a bit preoccupied with events unfurling before him. Things being tense between him and Eva were more important than the wicked witch.

 

Gideon took a phone call just as the cops arrived at Eva's. My guess is that call was from Angus, sitting in one of Gideon's cars downstairs, having driven Gideon and Ireland to the dinner at Eva's. Angus probably spotted the cops enter the building, and warned Gideon.

 

But I'm sure other calls were from his various security people keeping him updated about the fact someone (i.e. Nathan) was found murdered in one of his hotel properties that day.

 

 

As for Corrine, realizing at that point the cops in all likelihood were going to pull his phone records, Gideon would have probably answered any call she made Friday night to his cell and spoken with her briefly, long enough so that the phone record would clearly show they talked. We know she's had a habit of calling him daily. She probably was wondering where he was Friday evening, especially because "their" picture together had been in the paper that day. She has his home number. If she didn't reach him there, she likely would have tried his cell next.

[GiGi]

Evening Gigi

What a terrible story. What that poor woman must have gone through, desperate for help and being let down. Her husband was as much to blame for their deaths.

Perhaps that's why Gideon took matters into his own hands. He had been let down, desperate for help, and no one believed him. It was his way of dealing with it.

Hi Julie54,

I could have bought that arguement if Gideon had snapped, went to Nathan and killed him immediately.  What I am finding hard to swallow is the fact that he just sat there and formulated a plan.  He systematically and methodically planned this entire thing out (or so the reader is left to believe that given what has been written thus far).  Anyway you slice that loaf of bread, it is still premeditated murder and that just isn't romantic from my point of view.

 

I am going to wait until June 4th to read for myself and see what exactly happened.  I hope it will shed some light on a very hot topic. 

[GiGi]

As upset as we are that Gideon killed Nathan and as much as we love the characters of these amazing stories, we need to remember that this is a fictional story.

Gideon killed Nathan to protect Eva from having to deal with Nathan ever again. He was a detrimental threat to Eva. Even in courts today, you ever know how the court is going to rule and I don't think Gideon even thought that far in the future. He was eliminating what he perceived to be an imminent threat to Eva.

Hi Ript,

I am sure that we are aware that this is just a fictional story with fictional characters (at least I hope we do), but what I think some people are having difficutly with is the romanticizing of murder.  There is nothing romantic about that subject.  It doesn't matter how you slice the bread, murder is murder. 

 

I also think that come June 4th, people will have the opportunity to read for themselves what exactly happened.  It may help them make up their minds as to what was going on in Gideon's mind at the time that he killed Nathan.  It will also help to understand what the circumstances were surrounding Nathan's murder and how exactly everything went down. 

[AMC]

I don't think that this series is romanticizing murder...

In SD's book "Passion For The Game", the lead male character --Christopher-- kills someone...