Reflected in You **spoiler thread**

[ShazScott1980]

Hi everyone I'm new to this,just figured out how to get in this chat room although I've been reading from day one..I was thinking last night about something we all know about Gideons nightmares and how he was acting out causing pain we assume to his abuser but what if now hear me out lol i love Gideon as much as you guys believe me but what if he was the one who raped Christopher jr.. I mean if your child was, abused by a stranger wouldn't you report it?? But if it was your own child who abused your other child wouldn't u want to keep it quiet. I'm not saying he wasn't abused just that it could explain the distance with the family and the hatred with the brothers...just a thought to much time on out hands..

Welcome jeanmarie !

You make an interesting point but not one I agree with.

Christopher jr was at least 5 years younger than Gideon .

I see where your coming from though, the sibling rivalry that is there Gideon talks about his brother how over the years he's tried everything throwing money at Christopher jr he'd tried theatening him but he showed no inclination to changing would he want to throw money at his abuser.

Then also would Christopher jr abuse Ireland would Gideon want to leave her in that situation ?

Then when Gideon tells Eva about his abuse he says this about his abuser

He said it was my age … hormones … I needed to and I’d be calmer. Less angry all the time. He touched me, said he’d show me how to do it right. That I was doing it wrong"

Would a 5 year old really understand hormones etc?

[jeanmarie]

ShazScott1980, I'm a little confused about your reply. I'm not sure if you miss understood me .. what DID you mean when you said why would he want to throw money at his abuser?? I'm saying Gideon was the abuser.. Also you said what would a five year old know about hormones?? I'm just a little confused LOL..I guessing Gideon was abused and in turn took it out on Christopher Jr remember he used to tease Gideon a lot. That's why when he was attacking Eva in his sleep he was saying now its your turn to feel the pain.. its just a different twist on things. What do you think??

[MicheleWV]

No, I don't think Gideon abused Christopher. I think the things Gideon says in his dreams are his coping mechanisms -his getting even with his abuser by giving it back to him. It was the doctoral candidate i believe and according to the story.

[ShazScott1980]

ShazScott1980, I'm a little confused about your reply. I'm not sure if you miss understood me .. what DID you mean when you said why would he want to throw money at his abuser?? I'm saying Gideon was the abuser.. Also you said what would a five year old know about hormones?? I'm just a little confused LOL..I guessing Gideon was abused and in turn took it out on Christopher Jr remember he used to tease Gideon a lot. That's why when he was attacking Eva in his sleep he was saying now its your turn to feel the pain.. its just a different twist on things. What do you think??

Im such a idiiot and I've miss read your comment! I thought you were saying that Christopher jr raped Gideon

Your looking at it the other way that Gideon in fact raped and abused Christopher jr .

I'm not convinced that Gideon could abuse his half brother. But it's a different twist on the story . And twist and turns on the story keep us going until June

[LN Cronan]

The first nightmare Eva witnessed, which was the first night she stayed over his place, suggests him actually flashing back to being raped. I think some of the subsequent nightmares, in which it sounds like he's become the aggressor, are not actual flashbacks, but rather, are a means by which some of the rage is surfacing - he's envisioning striking back and tables being turned.

[LN Cronan]

Growing up in a dysfunctional home would account for some of Christopher Jr.'s issues. Just how deeply dysfunctional it was is something we just don't know yet, but as Entwined explores Gideon's past, we may find out Christopher Sr. was truly twisted.

 

Gideon's stepfather comes across as so bland and mild the one time we see him (at the garden party in Bared) and Ireland seems to be a "good kid." But she's a girl and considerably younger than her brothers (5-6 years younger than Christopher and 11 years younger than Gideon.) Perhaps whatever pathology the father might have, it's directed differently toward sons than daughters. Or maybe Elizabeth did a better job of protecting a girl.

[julie54]

Regarding Gideons rape. In Bared, in the library, when things were getting steamy. Sylvia wrote. Standing in a rush, Gideon picked me up and carried me to the couch. He dropped me lengthwise on the cushion, then hauled my hips up to rest on the armrest, arching my spine.

I eyed him up the length of my torso. Why not just fold me over and f### me from behind.

I think this is how Gideon would have been raped and in that very room.

Like you LN Cronan, my money is on Christopher Snr. There will come a day when, Gideon will exact his revenge and pull the plug on Vidal records. He is just biding his time.

[sscrph]

Julie you make a very good point there I always wondered why that was even included in that scene and I think you have the answer.

[LN Cronan]

Regarding Gideons rape. In Bared, in the library, when things were getting steamy. Sylvia wrote. Standing in a rush, Gideon picked me up and carried me to the couch. He dropped me lengthwise on the cushion, then hauled my hips up to rest on the armrest, arching my spine.

I eyed him up the length of my torso. Why not just fold me over and f### me from behind.

I think this is how Gideon would have been raped and in that very room.

Like you LN Cronan, my money is on Christopher Snr. There will come a day when, Gideon will exact his revenge and pull the plug on Vidal records. He is just biding his time.

 

I think the thing that's stopping him from pulling the plug right now is the fact his sister, Ireland, still lives at home. If he were to ruin his stepfather, the Vidal mansion would go. But Ireland is 17 years old. Very soon, she'll be college age, and a few years after that naturally wanting to live independently as a young woman. Gideon could make sure she never wants for money or a place to live -- but I bet he'd be glad to see the Vidal mansion go, given the horror he endured under that roof.

[julie54]

LN Cronan.

I agree with you. Ireland is his only family that he trusts, but is unsure how to interact with her. I am hoping their relationship blossoms in EWY.

As I said, I'm sure Gideon is just biding his time. The rest of the family will get their comeuppance, sooner rather than later.

I was wondering if Gideon found his father after he committed suicide. We need more of Gideons story in EWY.

[LN Cronan]

LN Cronan.

I agree with you. Ireland is his only family that he trusts, but is unsure how to interact with her. I am hoping their relationship blossoms in EWY.

As I said, I'm sure Gideon is just biding his time. The rest of the family will get their comeuppance, sooner rather than later.

I was wondering if Gideon found his father after he committed suicide. We need more of Gideons story in EWY.

 

I've also wondered about his father's suicide too -- Gideon already was an angry kid with issues even before the sexual assault.

 

Geoffrey Cross shot himself in the head. Suicide using that method is often done at home, where firearms are stored. Gideon was five years old at the time, which made him pre-school age. It's possible he heard the shot, and if he ran to investigate, may have see the body.

 

I also wonder whether an argument between Gideon's parents immediately preceded the suicide. Near the end of Reflected, when Gideon told Eva some pieces about his troubled past, he described how things in the house had suddenly changed from happy to his parents yelling & screaming daily.

[julie54]

Was it suicide? Could it have been murder? Made to look like suicide, by a disgruntled investor.

Thinking out the box here.

Geoffrey had made at lot of enemies, who took their hatred out on Gideon, who was a defenceless child.

[LN Cronan]

My guess is suicide, because the guy was going to prison. Ponzi schemes are about as ugly as financial crimes come, and on the size Geoffrey Cross operated, a lot of very rich people would have been burned badly. 

 

However, poor Gideon suffered as a kid even though his mother remarried right away and they moved out of New York City. From page 319 of Reflected:

 

I never knew when I'd run across someone my dad had f***** over, and I took a lot of s*** for it from other kids. From their parents. Teachers. it was big news. To this day, people still talk about my dad and what he did. I was so angry. At everyone. I had tantrums all the time. I broke things.

 

What bothers me is the poor kid was left with his last name, Cross, when it would have been kind under the circumstances to change his last name to Vidal, given the notoriety and the fact his biological father was dead. Especially because Gideon was so young; it wouldn't have been unusual for a stepfather to adopt a stepson. But Elizabeth Vidal had gotten pregnant right away, and the baby on the way was a boy, so I guess Christopher Sr. felt like only his biological son deserved the family name. Jerk.

[julie54]

Poor Gideon was never made to feel like one of the family. As you so rightly say, Mr Vidal Snr could have adopted Gideon, but it seems like he wanted to alienate Gideon.

Just a thought, could Mr Vidal Snr have been one of those investors? That would explain why he wouldn't adopt him.

So want to give Gideon a hug and make it all better for him.

[MicheleWV]

I wonder if Christopher Jr. was sexually abused and didn't tell like Eva didn't tell. He was younger and everyone was focused on Gideon because of his father's suicide. Could explain a lot.

[sscrph]

Poor Gideon was never made to feel like one of the family. As you so rightly say, Mr Vidal Snr could have adopted Gideon, but it seems like he wanted to alienate Gideon.

Just a thought, could Mr Vidal Snr have been one of those investors? That would explain why he wouldn't adopt him.

So want to give Gideon a hug and make it all better for him.

Yes I do wonder why Vidal never adopted Gideon because you think Elizabeth would have pushed for this to happen...

[sscrph]

Poor Gideon was never made to feel like one of the family. As you so rightly say, Mr Vidal Snr could have adopted Gideon, but it seems like he wanted to alienate Gideon.

Just a thought, could Mr Vidal Snr have been one of those investors? That would explain why he wouldn't adopt him.

So want to give Gideon a hug and make it all better for him.

Yes I do wonder why Vidal never adopted Gideon because you think Elizabeth would have pushed for this to happen...

[KiMa]

Yes I do wonder why Vidal never adopted Gideon because you think Elizabeth would have pushed for this to happen...

It's interesting..what if Gideon's father was a victim in this Ponzi scheme and was set up and possible killed????

It's interesting that his father was involved in securities company and we all know how Gideon is about security

I think his father was possibly set up as think about it, as an adult and given the success that is Gideon, he could have easily changed his last name but he hasn't and not only that, all his businesses/ventures contain the name "CROSS."

I don't think he would do something so strategic like that if his father was part of the Ponzi scheme and the like

I think Gideon naming all his ventures Cross-related is in remembrance of his father and there is more there that needs exploring.,,

Just my immediate thoughts....

[MicheleWV]

KiMa Securities and exchange... his dad collected money to invest and didn't invest it. He had a Pyramid Scheme. Gideon probably uses the name Cross to prove to the world that he is honest unlike his dad.

[KiMa]

Okay. Thanks but I honestly think his father isn't like a shady character and he kept the name in remembrance because he was innocent. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows!

[sscrph]

Okay. Thanks but I honestly think his father isn't like a shady character and he kept the name in remembrance because he was innocent. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows!

Apparently he would rather have the name Cross than Vidal any day!!

[LN Cronan]

I think Gideon inherited his genius for making money from his father, but where his father misused that talent to become a very serious crook, Gideon has used his to be an honest businessman -- and ended up richer than his father could have ever become as a crook. Geoffrey Cross probably dreamed of the success Gideon achieved, but Geoffrey chose the fast, dishonest way to try to get there.

However, when Gideon was younger, he had started out in life as a young man by first tapping into his own dishonest side. Gideon got his start by cheating at blackjack (counting cards.) Those gambling winnings became the foundation upon which he eventually built his financial empire.

It had been in the casinos while gambling that he started making honest business connections through folks he met at the gaming tables. He turned to honest ways of making money, and now he is scrupulous today about being an honest businessman.

I think this demonstrates how Gideon is very much a complicated person full of both dark and light, and that in the end, the light prevails. Plus, I cut him lots of slack for having started out cheating at blackjack in order to get money. I'll be that the only reason his stepfather paid for him to go an Ivy League college (Columbia University) was because it made his stepfather look good. Gideon left home as soon as he could and already was distancing himself from the Vidals. It's safe to say Vidal had no intention of continuing to keep Gideon in an affluent position in life past college age -- and I'll bet Gideon would have refused to continue to accept money from the Vidals in any case.

[sscrph]

I think Gideon inherited his genius for making money from his father, but where his father misused that talent to become a very serious crook, Gideon has used his to be an honest businessman -- and ended up richer than his father could have ever become as a crook. Geoffrey Cross probably dreamed of the success Gideon achieved, but Geoffrey chose the fast, dishonest way to try to get there.

However, when Gideon was younger, he had started out in life as a young man by first tapping into his own dishonest side. Gideon got his start by cheating at blackjack (counting cards.) Those gambling winnings became the foundation upon which he eventually built his financial empire.

It had been in the casinos while gambling that he started making honest business connections through folks he met at the gaming tables. He turned to honest ways of making money, and now he is scrupulous today about being an honest businessman.

I think this demonstrates how Gideon is very much a complicated person full of both dark and light, and that in the end, the light prevails. Plus, I cut him lots of slack for having started out cheating at blackjack in order to get money. I'll be that the only reason his stepfather paid for him to go an Ivy League college (Columbia University) was because it made his stepfather look good. Gideon left home as soon as he could and already was distancing himself from the Vidals. It's safe to say Vidal had no intention of continuing to keep Gideon in an affluent position in life past college age -- and I'll bet Gideon would have refused to continue to accept money from the Vidals in any case.

Yes LN I agree but why would Elizabeth have been ok with Vidal slighting her son?

[julie54]

Just sitting here when a thought popped in to my head. This could be Cinderella in reverse. With

Gideon being Cinderella

Eva the prince

Both the Chris's being the ugly sisters

Elizabeth, the evil step mum

Ireland fairy godmother.

Cary is buttons.

Sorry I need to get out more!

[sscrph]

Just sitting here when a thought popped in to my head. This could be Cinderella in reverse. With

Gideon being Cinderella

Eva the prince

Both the Chris's being the ugly sisters

Elizabeth, the evil step mum

Ireland fairy godmother.

Cary is buttons.

Sorry I need to get out more!

Hi Julie I totally agree with you I have thoughts of the Cinderella story myself!!