One Chapter A Day - Re-Read Of Bared and Entwined

[LN Cronan]

I wonder how Angus felt those last couple of weeks in Reflected:

1. Knowing Gideon had deliberately mistreated Eva
2. Seeing Eva in pain every day (as Angus tailed her and she steadfastly refused rides)
3. Understanding Gideon calculatedly was using Corrine (who had been Gideon's fiancee the first year Angus worked for Gideon -- so Angus would have known Corrine well years ago.)

 

Mind you, I'm convinced Angus knew the whole reason why. In fact, I'm convinced Angus was Gideon's accomplice, and helped Gideon in ways that included getting rid of the murder weapon while Gideon rushed back to the party.

 

My theory about how Angus felt about the way Gideon decided to manipulate both Eva and Corrine in a manner that immediately damaged Eva and down the road was going to damage Corrine? Angus probably wished he could dopeslap some sense into young Gideon. 

• Angus would have seen eight years of Gideon being clueless about women -- including Angus making sure that when Gideon did throw some date onto the reject pile, the reject got driven home for the final time. (Remember what Magdalene told Eva in Chapter 2 about Gideon making sure drama queens who pulled ultimatum stunts on him were driven home by Angus.)
• Angus would have spent about a year seeing the interactions between Gideon and Corrine -- seen enough to know something was missing in Gideon and Corrine (probably still a nice girl back then, not yet the catty b**** she became) increasingly desperately trying to break through Gideon's shell.
• Angus started out very professionally polite to Eva, but as the days progressed he began displaying genuine warmth. He would have seen that Eva was the first, and only, person who ever made Gideon happy in all the years Angus had known Gideon (which stretched back to Gideon's childhood.) Eva was the best thing that ever happened to Gideon -- and in Reflected, he threw that away with both hands.

[Sharonm745]

Graves said that it was a 15 minute walk to Nathan's hotel.  I always thought that Angus was around the corner and picked Gideon up so he could get there and get back quickly.  I don't know if that would throw a wrench in Graves theory but it might be enough to give a jury reasonable doubt that someone could get to Nathan, kill him and get back to the hotel where witnesses saw him throughout the night.  Some people even saw him talking to FDNY and others resolving problems with the kitchen fire. 

[julie54]

Graves said that it was a 15 minute walk to Nathan's hotel. I always thought that Angus was around the corner and picked Gideon up so he could get there and get back quickly. I don't know if that would throw a wrench in Graves theory but it might be enough to give a jury reasonable doubt that someone could get to Nathan, kill him and get back to the hotel where witnesses saw him throughout the night. Some people even saw him talking to FDNY and others resolving problems with the kitchen fire.

That's why Graves had a problem. No one could specifically put a time frame on events and where Gideon was. There were too many people coming and going. It was mayhem.

[LN Cronan]

Graves said that it was a 15 minute walk to Nathan's hotel.  I always thought that Angus was around the corner and picked Gideon up so he could get there and get back quickly.  I don't know if that would throw a wrench in Graves theory but it might be enough to give a jury reasonable doubt that someone could get to Nathan, kill him and get back to the hotel where witnesses saw him throughout the night.  Some people even saw him talking to FDNY and others resolving problems with the kitchen fire. 

 

Personally, I think no way in h*** would Gideon quickly walk to and from Nathan's hotel. Gideon is a major celebrity, and he would have been recognized on the street. 

 

I think when Graves said she timed the walk on foot -- 15 minutes each way -- she wasn't implying she thought Gideon walked. The point she was making related to her having successfully broken Gideon's alibi wide open.

 

Gideon had more than enough time, during that hour-long evacuation of the party hotel, to pull off the killing. Gideon clearly had "opportunity" in other words -- the crucial legal element that along with motive is what the prosecution needed to prove to a jury. Even on foot, Gideon could have pulled it off in little over a half hour. Driving to and from the crime scene, Gideon probably had it done in ten minutes or so.

[Kirsten]

 

I wonder how Angus felt those last couple of weeks in Reflected:

1. Knowing Gideon had deliberately mistreated Eva
2. Seeing Eva in pain every day (as Angus tailed her and she steadfastly refused rides)
3. Understanding Gideon calculatedly was using Corrine (who had been Gideon's fiancee the first year Angus worked for Gideon -- so Angus would have known Corrine well years ago.)

 

Mind you, I'm convinced Angus knew the whole reason why. In fact, I'm convinced Angus was Gideon's accomplice, and helped Gideon in ways that included getting rid of the murder weapon while Gideon rushed back to the party.

 

My theory about how Angus felt about the way Gideon decided to manipulate both Eva and Corrine in a manner that immediately damaged Eva and down the road was going to damage Corrine? Angus probably wished he could dopeslap some sense into young Gideon. 

• Angus would have seen eight years of Gideon being clueless about women -- including Angus making sure that when Gideon did throw some date onto the reject pile, the reject got driven home for the final time. (Remember what Magdalene told Eva in Chapter 2 about Gideon making sure drama queens who pulled ultimatum stunts on him were driven home by Angus.)
• Angus would have spent about a year seeing the interactions between Gideon and Corrine -- seen enough to know something was missing in Gideon and Corrine (probably still a nice girl back then, not yet the catty b**** she became) increasingly desperately trying to break through Gideon's shell.
• Angus started out very professionally polite to Eva, but as the days progressed he began displaying genuine warmth. He would have seen that Eva was the first, and only, person who ever made Gideon happy in all the years Angus had known Gideon (which stretched back to Gideon's childhood.) Eva was the best thing that ever happened to Gideon -- and in Reflected, he threw that away with both hands.

 

I agree LN. I think Angus was a part of this every step of the way.Besides getting rid of the knife I wonder if Gideon needed to change clothes too.

[julie54]

I agree LN. I think Angus was a part of this every step of the way.Besides getting rid of the knife I wonder if Gideon needed to change clothes too.

Perhaps part of his plan included a change of clothes in the car before he went and did the deed. He needed his suit to be the same in case photos were taken.

[Sharonm745]

Personally, I think no way in h*** would Gideon quickly walk to and from Nathan's hotel. Gideon is a major celebrity, and he would have been recognized on the street. 

 

I think when Graves said she timed the walk on foot -- 15 minutes each way -- she wasn't implying she thought Gideon walked. The point she was making related to her having successfully broken Gideon's alibi wide open.

 

Gideon had more than enough time, during that hour-long evacuation of the party hotel, to pull off the killing. Gideon clearly had "opportunity" in other words -- the crucial legal element that along with motive is what the prosecution needed to prove to a jury. Even on foot, Gideon could have pulled it off in little over a half hour. Driving to and from the crime scene, Gideon probably had it done in ten minutes or so.

 

Good point I wasn't thinking of an accomplice when I first read the book.  

 

I always thought Gideon acted alone, most likely had a change of clothes in his old "f room" that he used to sneak in and out.  After reading the posts I think there is a possibility that Angus helped but I still wonder if Gideon would really involve anyone else. 

[julie54]

Good point I wasn't thinking of an accomplice when I first read the book.

I always thought Gideon acted alone, most likely had a change of clothes in his old "f room" that he used to sneak in and out. After reading the posts I think there is a possibility that Angus helped but I still wonder if Gideon would really involve anyone else.

He had got rid of his f*ckpad, before he killed Nathan.

Also there is a theory that Angus may have killed Gideons abuser or caught him in the act, stopping him from hurting Gideon ever again. That's why Gideon has so much trust in him.

[LN Cronan]

I think Angus is the only person Gideon trusts absolutely. Period. Gideon cannot even trust Eva fully (mostly his bad - it's because he has issues.) But there's something momentous Angus did to earn Gideon's trust.

 

So if there is one person, and one person only, Gideon would turn to in order to make 100% he (Gideon) could get at Nathan, kill him, and then get away clean, it would be Angus.

 

Too, Angus had to have been in the loop from day one of Nathan's reappearance that Eva needed protection. Then when Cary's beating increased the danger to an unbearable level, Angus was the person Gideon put in charge of driving Eva -- but in actuality made Angus Eva's bodyguard.

Monday - Eva stayed safe inside the hospital around the clock

Tuesday - Gideon found out she left the hospital unexpectedly that morning, and Angus tracked her down while she was trying to walk to work, getting her off the street. Tailed her to the restaurant she took Brett to. Presumably, he took Eva back to the hospital, where she spent a second night in Cary's room. Gideon ordered Eva to wait for Angus every morning moving forward.

Wednesday - Angus drove Eva from the hospital to work and then from work home (Cary got home from the hospital that day).

Thursday: Presumably Angus drove Eva to work.

 

Thursday night - when the killing happened: Angus was part of the alibi Gideon engineered for Eva. Angus drove Eva from work to Dr. Petersen's and then from Dr. Petersen's to home, where she remained in for the night with her injured roommate and visiting nurses. Gideon arranged things so that there always was at least one eyewitness (Angus, Dr. Petersen, Cary, home nurses) who could account for her every move from when she left work to when she got home that night.

 

I think that as soon as Angus dropped Eva off at home, he let Gideon know she was safe, and then he met Gideon near the party to help Gideon take care of Nathan.

[sscrph]

Good point I wasn't thinking of an accomplice when I first read the book.  

 

I always thought Gideon acted alone, most likely had a change of clothes in his old "f room" that he used to sneak in and out.  After reading the posts I think there is a possibility that Angus helped but I still wonder if Gideon would really involve anyone else.

Yes I am still on the fence about an accomplice...

[julie54]

How old would you say Monica was? I don't know about the debutante scene in the states. I'm thinking about 44years old?

[sscrph]

How old would you say Monica was? I don't know about the debutante scene in the states. I'm thinking about 44years old?

Yes I have to say I think that's about right do you think Monica attained a college degree?

[julie54]

Yes I have to say I think that's about right do you think Monica attained a college degree?

In England students go to university normally between 18 and 21. Is it similar in America? If yes, then I would say Monica did get a degree most probably.

[jennpenn926]

43 because Eva made a comment in RIY (when Monica,Cary,Eva and Stanton went out on the town) that she (Eva) thought it was amazing that her mother could wear her clothes. She also said she(Monica) didn't look ike she was almost 20 years older than her(Eva) .So I believe Monica got pregnant at 18 and had Eva at 19. Since Eva is 24.

[Donnad]

How old would you say Monica was? I don't know about the debutante scene in the states. I'm thinking about 44years old?

 

Debuante is around 16 but they don't say when age she got pregnant though.

[julie54]

Thank you ladies.

[LN Cronan]

In England students go to university normally between 18 and 21. Is it similar in America? If yes, then I would say Monica did get a degree most probably.

 

Similar, Julie -- here in the States, young people graduate high school around age 17-18. A bachelor's degree, the most widespread college degree, takes four years to complete if a student attends college full time, so most students finish around age 21-22. "Graduate school" involves at a bare minimum two more years full time to finish - for a master's degree. Doctorate degrees take even longer than that, and the amount of time getting one of those advanced degrees depends upon the subject being studied (medicine, law, science, etc.)

 

Eva is 24 and she mentioned to Gideon that one of the reasons she hadn't gotten laid in a while was she had been busy working on a "thesis." A thesis is something that is part of nearly all master's degree program. Doing the math, it would appear Eva attended college for six years total.

 

However, she lived with her father and went to school in San Diego for only four years. My guess is that she started out in college living near her mother, but after two years decided to transfer to San Diego State, to finish her bachelor's there and then get her master's.

[LN Cronan]

In the States, we also have a form of college degree known as "associate's" which take only two years to complete. However, when a person is said to have "gone to college" or "is college educated" generally, that indicates the person has a four-year degree, a "bachelor's" 

 

A student who is an "undergrad" is one studying for a bachelor's degree. "Graduate school - or grad school" means studying for a master's or higher.

[LN Cronan]

Re-reading the part of Reflected Chapter 2 when Magdalene talks on the phone to Eva made me connect some new dots - that maybe Eva is the only woman Gideon ever pursued, both figuratively and literally.

 

• Magdalene had known Gideon a long time, and she'd never seen him literally chase after a woman before - like he had when Eva walked out on him the night before. And Magdalene had witnessed other women walking away from Gideon - he'd never chased any of them.
• Magdalene observed Eva has made Gideon work for her (Eva) -- something Magdalene never did (and now thinks was a mistake on her part.)

Add onto this the knowledge that years ago, Corrine had done the initial chasing (probably literally following Gideon around campus). He didn't go after her figuratively after she broke the engagement.

 

One more thing to add is something Gideon said to Eva back in Bared - that before Eva, work and the gym generally kept consumed most of his energy, so sex was something he could take or leave. Once in a while he got an offer he couldn't refuse -- that implies that he never pursued someone when he wanted to get laid, rather, he'd accept a woman's advances.

 

Throw that all together with how Gideon told Eva in Chapter 1 how he'd been driven insane the moment he first laid eyes on her as she stood out on the sidewalk in front of the Crossfire -- how he ended up following her into the building. Plus the relentless chasing of her he did that first week when she'd been rebuffing his advances .....

 

.... all of that makes me think that before Eva, which had been love at first sight for him, Gideon never even had fallen into l**t with another woman. Never pursued anyone else. He didn't need to pursue - women threw themselves at him all the time, and if he was feeling h**** he could just pick one for a one-night stand.

 

Anne Lucas had been meant to be a one-night stand, but Gideon decided to let her keep coming back for more, because it made even more vicious the revenge Gideon was taking on Dr. Lucas.

 

Even Eva herself originally had been destined for just an "extended one night stand" per something Sylvia said in the interview the other night (she used that exact phrase too.) The lovemaking in the limo is what changed everything for Gideon (and for Eva too) -- changed it into something they both were willing to fight for.

[julie54]

In the States, we also have a form of college degree known as "associate's" which take only two years to complete. However, when a person is said to have "gone to college" or "is college educated" generally, that indicates the person has a four-year degree, a "bachelor's" 

 

A student who is an "undergrad" is one studying for a bachelor's degree. "Graduate school - or grad school" means studying for a master's or higher.

Thank you for clarifying that.

When our students attend university, most go from 18 - 19. Many of the courses are 3 or 4 years. So students are 21 or 23 when they leave.

Just curious about Monica's age. I thought about 44.

I wonder if she lived with Victor or on her own with Eva as a single parent. How did she survive financially? After all the family disowned her.

[LauraJ]

In England students go to university normally between 18 and 21. Is it similar in America? If yes, then I would say Monica did get a degree most probably.

I thinking Monica probably did not go to college or get a degree. She had been disowned by her family and a baby to take care. She probably had to work to support herself and Eva until she found someone to support her and her baby.

[julie54]

Re-reading the part of Reflected Chapter 2 when Magdalene talks on the phone to Eva made me connect some new dots - that maybe Eva is the only woman Gideon ever pursued, both figuratively and literally.

 

• Magdalene had known Gideon a long time, and she'd never seen him literally chase after a woman before - like he had when Eva walked out on him the night before. And Magdalene had witnessed other women walking away from Gideon - he'd never chased any of them.
• Magdalene observed Eva has made Gideon work for her (Eva) -- something Magdalene never did (and now thinks was a mistake on her part.)

Add onto this the knowledge that years ago, Corrine had done the initial chasing (probably literally following Gideon around campus). He didn't go after her figuratively after she broke the

 

One more thing to add is something Gideon said to Eva back in Bared - that before Eva, work and the gym generally kept consumed most of his energy, so sex was something he could take or leave. Once in a while he got an offer he couldn't refuse -- that implies that he never pursued someone when he wanted to get laid, rather, he'd accept a woman's advances.

 

Throw that all together with how Gideon told Eva in Chapter 1 how he'd been driven insane the moment he first laid eyes on her as she stood out on the sidewalk in front of the Crossfire -- how he ended up following her into the building. Plus the relentless chasing of her he did that first week when she'd been rebuffing his advances .....

 

.... all of that makes me think that before Eva, which had been love at first sight for him, Gideon never even had fallen into l**t with another woman. Never pursued anyone else. He didn't need to pursue - women threw themselves at him all the time, and if he was feeling h**** he could just pick one for a one-night stand.

 

Anne Lucas had been meant to be a one-night stand, but Gideon decided to let her keep coming back for more, because it made even more vicious the revenge Gideon was taking on Dr. Lucas.

 

Even Eva herself originally had been destined for just an "extended one night stand" per something Sylvia said in the interview the other night (she used that exact phrase too.) The lovemaking in the limo is what changed everything for Gideon (and for Eva too) -- changed it into something they both were willing to fight for.

Totally agree with that statement. Gideons self control must have been phenomenal, considering how he pursued Eva.

I love the bit of the interview too, when Sylvia mentioned about how s*x in the limo changed everything that night. Changed his life forever literally.

[Sheens263]

I have often wondered, if Eva will do anything with her "compensation money". Part of me thinks she might use it to help abused children in some way. She said she wouldnt touch it, but if it was a good cause? I could also see Gideon offering funding as well.

good idea Julie

[sscrph]

In England students go to university normally between 18 and 21. Is it similar in America? If yes, then I would say Monica did get a degree most probably.

Yes if she would have gone to college at 18 and graduated with a 4 year degree which is standard that would have put her at 22. I wonder if she got pregnant before or after graduating?

[julie54]

Yes if she would have gone to college at 18 and graduated with a 4 year degree which is standard that would have put her at 22. I wonder if she got pregnant before or after graduating?

I wonder if we will find out anymore of Monica's and Victors relationship. After all Sylvia said, other characters in the book have issues that need resolving.