SPOILERS: Entwined with You Overall Discussion

[GiGi]

Hi Julie,

Maybe it was the hypocrisy of the entire situation.  Why get all lovey dovey now?  Was she trying to put on a show for the adoring crowd?  Corinne’s parents and Jean Francois was there as well.  Could she really let all of them know that she was a crap mother?  I think not. 

 

I think that Gideon had enough self composure within himself not to wrench his mother away from him in that moment (he was kind enough to let her save face), but he held onto Eva’s hand (thereby telling her how he really felt).  He gripped her hand tighter which tells me that he was very uncomfortable and maybe even revolted.  He just didn’t verbalize it. What does everyone else think?

[GiGi]

I love this forum! First time responding. So glad that i found others equally fascinated with these books! I hope we find out more details regarding Gideon and his mother's relationship.

Hi Asl48, 

Welcome to the forum.  I hope you enjoy yourself.

[GiGi]

It seems Gideon went to the hospital not realizing that big crew would be there. I don't think he would have put Eva in that situation. Or maybe he was making a statement and knew she'd be classy about it. It is obvious that Elizabeth and Corrine have joined forces to get him back in their lives. Your thoughts?

Hi MicheleWV, 

You bring up a good point that never occurred to me.  You could very well be correct in thinking that Gideon wouldn't have been expecting everyone to be gathered in the waiting room.   I don't know if Elizabeth and Corinne joined forces but it could be possible that Elizabeth was still in close contact with Corinne's parents and that is why she was at the hospital.

 

A child attempting suicide is a very tragic and personal thing.  I couldn't see a mother picking up the phone and calling her friends to let them know about something like this.  I think this is the type of situation that someone would keep private and only tell the closest of people.  I don't think that the parents would have wanted the outside world to know. 

 

It could also be pure coinsidence that Elizabeth Vidal may have been somewhere with one or both of Corinne's parents (like at a lunch or dinner, etc.) when they got the news about their daughter and Elizabeth may have come with them.  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

[julie54]

Good Morning Julie. I hope you slept well. Kirsten has yet to catch up on this thread... she might have been looking at me all day.

Good morning Kirsten and Henry. Nice to see you. :)

[GiGi]

Gideon saved his family from losing the record company and poverty. He kept it family. They should all be kissing his @$5. Poor Eva and Gideon have huge mom problems but for opposite reasons. Dear Lord if Monica and Lizzie join forces...

I hope to crap that Monica and Elizabeth don't join forces! Yuck! 

[julie54]

Hi Julie,

Maybe it was the hypocrisy of the entire situation. Why get all lovey dovey now? Was she trying to put on a show for the adoring crowd? Corinne’s parents and Jean Francois was there as well. Could she really let all of them know that she was a crap mother? I think not.

I think that Gideon had enough self composure within himself not to wrench his mother away from him in that moment (he was kind enough to let her save face), but he held onto Eva’s hand (thereby telling her how he really felt). He gripped her hand tighter which te

lls me that he was very uncomfortable and maybe even revolted. He just didn’t verbalize it. What does everyone else think?

Hi Gigi

I felt Gideon was uncomfortable and repulsed by his mothers hug. Gripping Eva's hand conveyed this message. On the other occasion he shied away from her.

Regarding Anne Lucas. I think she was the shrink who was tending to Lizzy during her pregnancy with Ireland, the doctorate was her brother, Hugh. When Gideon made the accusations, Terry Lucas examined Gideon found no evidence of penetration because the abuse was hand-jobs, as did a second opinion. Which then gave Hugh freedom to carry on the abuse, this time actually raping Gideon.

After all Gideon was a disturbed child by Anne's(if she was the shrink) and Terry's reckoning. I'm sure Hugh was very convincing of this. Keeping it in the family, meant covering their backs. If word had got out about the possible abuse of a child by Hugh, Anne's career/business if Hugh worked with her would be in tatters. The law suits sky high. Who would use their services? Anne may not have known about Hugh's raping Gideon till he killed himself? This is one spiteful and vengeful lady.

I did pose the question to Sylvia yesterday about Anne being the shrink? We shall see. If it turns out its a spoiler, then I'm right.

[GiGi]

More random thoughts and questions...I love listening to the books after reading them.  I am currently at the wedding of Gideon and Eva (audiobook version) and had a few things come up today in the midst of listening to the book, including the airplane section WHILE I WAS AT WORK...It was really interesting to say the least

 

-Was Angus hired by/worked for Geoffrey Cross or Chris Vidal?  Eva wonders about Angus being a "surrogate father" to Gideon and I can't help but wonderful if Gideon took his from Chris, because Angus was so important to his father. 

 

-We know that Gideon and Magdalene's Mothers were friendly, but no where does it talk about Elizabeth and Corinne's Mothers knowing each other.  It has been referenced many time that Elizabeth was at the hospital when Eva and Gideon got there, however it seems VERY strange to me that after the relationship and engagement (both seem more like a joke to me) between Gideon and Corinne, which were many years prior, that Corinne and her family still have such close contact with Gideon's.  Christopher got a text or call from Corinne white at the Time Square event and from what he said it sounds like he has been receiving many, not to mention that we know they talked at least that day since Christopher knew that Gideon saw Corinne the night before.  Does anyone else find it odd that they would all still keep in touch this many years later?

 

-I do not remember the exact age that Gideon was when Geoffrey committed suicide but I believe it was around 5.   I am assuming that they didn't tell Gideon why his Father killed himself, so I wonder at what age they did tell him and how much he really knows.  I also can't help but think that Chris had a relationship with Geoffrey prior to his death.  I feel like this because it was intentionally brought up that Ireland has to keep her relationship with her boyfriend a secret because of what Geoffrey did (the Ponzi Scheme) but when you think of it, that was many years before Ireland was born and it was done by her half Brother's Father (yes I know her Mother's Husband too) which seems odd.  I know that this event hurt a lot of people, but still that sounds really extreme.

Hi Fayeth,

I found it very odd as well.  I can't really find a reason for Elizabeth Vidal and Corinne's parents to be that close.  I get the whole family friends thing, but the advent of their two children ending the engagement would be cause to have as much contact with one another.  I have to wonder whether Elizabeth Vidal's presence was happenstance.  I don't know that it was anything more than that.

 

Did anyone happen to find it more than a little odd the way that Elizabeth Vidal seemed to be orchestrating the entire situation at the hospital.  It was beyond strange.  Usually when a person comes to the hospital to visit someone in a crisis situation, it is the parent of the ill party that does the greeting.  Why do I get the feeling that Corinne's parents had no idea that Gideon was on his way to the hospital.  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

[sscrph]

We don't know what kind of doctor Anne is thus far; is she a pediatrician, psychiatrist, what?  Wouldn't she have worked with her husband then?  I don't get the sense that Anne and Hugh would have worked together.  What seems to be in question is whether Anne would have known that her brother was raping Gideon and if she knew that then why on earth would she hunt Gideon down and have an affair with him several years later?   

 

Do you think that if Dr. Lucas did cover up the abuse, that he would have professionally associated himself with Hugh?  There are so many questions.  It is like running on a hamster wheel.  We keep going around and around and around.  I hope we get answers before the end of the year.

Gideon stated that Anne and her family are all in the mental health field...

[sscrph]

Hi Fayeth,

I found it very odd as well.  I can't really find a reason for Elizabeth Vidal and Corinne's parents to be that close.  I get the whole family friends thing, but the advent of their two children ending the engagement would be cause to have as much contact with one another.  I have to wonder whether Elizabeth Vidal's presence was happenstance.  I don't know that it was anything more than that.

 

Did anyone happen to find it more than a little odd the way that Elizabeth Vidal seemed to be orchestrating the entire situation at the hospital.  It was beyond strange.  Usually when a person comes to the hospital to visit someone in a crisis situation, it is the parent of the ill party that does the greeting.  Why do I get the feeling that Corinne's parents had no idea that Gideon was on his way to the hospital.  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

Bottom line ...Gideon and Eva had no business being there and neither did his mother... It was a private situation for Corinne's family and her husband ...VERY INAPPROPRIATE!!

!!!

[Sheens263]

I can't see his eyes, but YUM!!!

 

Oh Yes please B O B you are now redundant, (I know it is early 10.50am here in the UK but couldn't resist when I saw this pic) LOL

[Sheens263]

Either he doesn't know or he doesn't care.

I find it hard to believe he doesn't know.

And he must be hurting really bad too, which explains his hatred towards Gedeon. Lucas put everything he had (love, honour, professional skills, family) at stake because of Gedeon, and he did so for a woman who doesn't love him anymore.

I would feel pity for him, if I weren't so pis**d at him.

If that was me Gabri and my hubby did that to me I would be kicking him to the curb by now and telling him to pack his bags and get out, maybe Dr T is just blinded by his love for his wife but yes I agree he has jepordised everything for her 

[sscrph]

I hope to crap that Monica and Elizabeth don't join forces! Yuck!

[/quote

If Lizzie continues to give Eva trouble Monica and Lizzie will never join forces. Or all her flaws, Monica is always team Eva and she won't put up with anyone making her BABY miserable. Lizzie better watch out because Monica won't put up with her shananigans towards Eva...

[sscrph]

Hi MicheleWV, 

You bring up a good point that never occurred to me.  You could very well be correct in thinking that Gideon wouldn't have been expecting everyone to be gathered in the waiting room.   I don't know if Elizabeth and Corinne joined forces but it could be possible that Elizabeth was still in close contact with Corinne's parents and that is why she was at the hospital.

 

A child attempting suicide is a very tragic and personal thing.  I couldn't see a mother picking up the phone and calling her friends to let them know about something like this.  I think this is the type of situation that someone would keep private and only tell the closest of people.  I don't think that the parents would have wanted the outside world to know. 

 

It could also be pure coinsidence that Elizabeth Vidal may have been somewhere with one or both of Corinne's parents (like at a lunch or dinner, etc.) when they got the news about their daughter and Elizabeth may have come with them.  What do you think?  What does everyone think?

Yes that could be possible they were somewhere together because I don't think Corinne's parents would have called anyone, not even JFG but I think it is also possible that Lizzie may have been with Corinne or that Lizzie discovered Corinne was unconscious...

[sscrph]

Hi Sscrph,

Anne having extra-marital affairs is one thing, but how did she know who Cary was?  Did she track him down?  Look him up on the internet?  If she was looking for a little nooky then why pick Cary?  I think that woman was targeting Cary specifically.  What I want to know at the end of the day is why?  Did she hope to hurt Eva?  Gideon?  Cary?  There has got to be something more there definitely.

She was definitely targeting Cary and I wonder is Gideon blind in addition to Eva's deafness... I mean how could you not notice this woman with long red hair and a green dress Eva stated she was very conspicuous especially if she was an enemy of yours IDK...oh Anne is very DIABOLICAL ... She rises to the top of the list for recipients of Eva's KRAV MAGA... I stated in another post that she worries me I fear for Eva's safety...

[sscrph]

Hi everyone,

I was re-reading the book and I came across this interesting tidbit on page 61.  Gideon went and bought Corinne’s engagement ring from the first jeweler story that he went to.   He goes on to discuss why he did and the sentiment that relayed was basically that looking for a ring was more an act of a function then of a man who was in love and looking for the perfect ring for the perfect woman.

 

That me to thinking, that I don’t think that Gideon ever went to his mother to ask for her engagement ring; either under the pretense of giving it to Corinne or anyone else.  I get the feeling that Gideon had this ring for a very long time, long before Eva came into the picture.

 

It is also plausible that the ring may have been seized and Gideon tracked it down and bought it at a later date, but I get the feeling (yes I have no documentation to support this) that he got then ring as part of his statement settlement when his father died.  What does everyone think?

I agree that he had it in his possession for a long time or that he tracked it down...

[Sheens263]

I hope to crap that Monica and Elizabeth don't join forces! Yuck! 

I don't think that would ever happen, Elizabeth does not like Eva and Monica will not associate with anyone who is nasty to her daughter 

[Sheens263]

Hi Gigi

I felt Gideon was uncomfortable and repulsed by his mothers hug. Gripping Eva's hand conveyed this message. On the other occasion he shied away from her.

Regarding Anne Lucas. I think she was the shrink who was tending to Lizzy during her pregnancy with Ireland, the doctorate was her brother, Hugh. When Gideon made the accusations, Terry Lucas examined Gideon found no evidence of penetration because the abuse was hand-jobs, as did a second opinion. Which then gave Hugh freedom to carry on the abuse, this time actually raping Gideon.

After all Gideon was a disturbed child by Anne's(if she was the shrink) and Terry's reckoning. I'm sure Hugh was very convincing of this. Keeping it in the family, meant covering their backs. If word had got out about the possible abuse of a child by Hugh, Anne's career/business if Hugh worked with her would be in tatters. The law suits sky high. Who would use their services? Anne may not have known about Hugh's raping Gideon till he killed himself? This is one spiteful and vengeful lady.

I did pose the question to Sylvia yesterday about Anne being the shrink? We shall see. If it turns out its a spoiler, then I'm right.

Hey Julie

 

I maybe going off base here, but if the abuse was always hand jobs, why did Gideon always say "I don't do anal play" I always presumed the abuse was that way inclined and that is why it was "so sore" in his nightmares

[julie54]

Hey Julie

 

I maybe going off base here, but if the abuse was always hand jobs, why did Gideon always say "I don't do anal play" I always presumed the abuse was that way inclined and that is why it was "so sore" in his nightmares

The abuse started off as handjobs. "Teaching Gideon how to master*ate correctly". Probably after the examine to identify if Gideon was abused and nothing was found, Hugh escalated the abuse up to rape. Penetration.

That's why Gideon said he didn't do anal play.

[LN Cronan]

Hey Julie

 

I maybe going off base here, but if the abuse was always hand jobs, why did Gideon always say "I don't do anal play" I always presumed the abuse was that way inclined and that is why it was "so sore" in his nightmares

 

My theory, Sheens, is that things started with Hugh mentally/emotionally manipulating the child into hand jobs ... BUT THEN ... the coast became clear for Hugh to escalate to forcible anal penetration after his brother-in-law, Terry Lucas, convinced Gideon's mother that the "abuse" was simply some figment of the messed-up kid's imagination.

 

What if the real way Elizabeth failed her son was far worse than her failing to believe him. What if she had allowed Hugh to continue to have access to him -- the severity (and possibly frequency) of the abuse skyrocketed, and Gideon truly was helpless at that point, because no one believed him -- not his family, not pediatricians, no one.

[LN Cronan]

Julie, you're right about Dr. Anne Lucas being a psychiatrist, not a pediatrician (like her husband.) Page 353 - Gideon told Eva that Anne specifically is a psychiatrist. And earlier in the story (page 223-24) Gideon said everyone in Anne's family (including her brother Hugh, the pedophile) " .... is in the mental health field. The whole f****-up lot of them."

 

Sounds likely Anne/Hugh family members would share a private medical practice business, pretty common in the U.S. when close family members go into a a particular specialty, be it medical (therapists, surgeons), legal (criminal, tax law), financial (investing, real estate). Look no further than Martin Stanton working for his uncle, Richard Stanton, as an example of a skilled professional family business.

 

Though from something else Gideon said on page 223, it would appear Hugh didn't actually start practicing after he completed his Ph.D. Perhaps Terry threatened him privately -- fearing that Hugh like many pedophiles would go on to victimize other children and eventually get caught, something that would risk Terry's own medical career by affirming the Cross child had been telling the truth after all. Plus if Hugh got caught, Anne was going to find out. And the scandal could have destroyed any Anne-Hugh family business.

 

When Gideon got old enough, he threatened Hugh with legal h e l l if Hugh ever dared to go into mental health practice and/or victimized another child. 

[julie54]

Julie, you're right about Dr. Anne Lucas being a psychiatrist, not a pediatrician (like her husband.) Page 353 - Gideon told Eva that Anne specifically is a psychiatrist. And earlier in the story (page 223-24) Gideon said everyone in Anne's family (including her brother Hugh, the pedophile) " .... is in the mental health field. The whole f****-up lot of them."

 

Sounds likely Anne/Hugh family members would share a private medical practice business, pretty common in the U.S. when close family members go into a a particular specialty, be it medical (therapists, surgeons), legal (criminal, tax law), financial (investing, real estate). Look no further than Martin Stanton working for his uncle, Richard Stanton, as an example of a skilled professional family business.

So you can see where I'm going. A very dark path where the Lucas family are concerned. I was wondering if Anne kept her maiden name in the practice. Dr Anne ?, Mrs Anne Lucas.

If Anne had an affair with Gideon, while knowing about the abuse by Hugh, she is one screwball. Also I think she was one of the two women who suffered depression along with Corinne at the end of the book. Which she told Eva about. Bunny boiler or what!!

[LN Cronan]

Hi Mam2e,

I didn’t notice that where it was mentioned that Eva couldn’t really stand Stanton.  Could you please tell me which book that was in please?  Thanks in advance.

 

"I don't even like the guy half the time," Eva to Cary, Entwined with You page 189

 

Also, "You're enabling (Monica). You're keeping her sick, and you're making me sick, too." Eva to Stanton, Bared to You page 37.

[LN Cronan]

Good Morning Julie. I hope you slept well. Kirsten has yet to catch up on this thread... she might have been looking at me all day.

 

"You're determined to drive me to my knees, aren't you?" (Bared to You page 52)

 

"Rawr" (Reflected in You page 231)

[LN Cronan]

Hi, LN Cronan

 

I've been wanting to ask you about it. Do you copy paste the Word document to this forum or the other way around?

 

Care to explain the details? *blushing*

 

 

Thank you

 

 

PS: I will get the book eventually. insideofclouds has finally got her book and the donkey's heading for gabri's. Hopefully I'd be the next drop off. I have faith in you, donkey. Gideup! [i'm using your term, Julie. Hope you don't mind *wink*]

 

Hi Andie,

 

The thread entitled One Chapter A Day - Re-Read of Bared and Entwined (the latter was a typo, should have said Reflected) thread has the daily summaries, one per day - detailed timelines, key plot developments, new characters .... and my own more detailed thoughts on the content of each chapter. Most days, the daily summary "Readers Guide" was posted sometime before 6 a.m. U.S. Eastern time zone, though there were some days I was late.

 

I'm going to get around to a project soon of creating a master running timeline from the start of Bared to the end of Entwined, once I can sketch out the master timeline for the two weeks of Entwined.

[Andie]

Hi Andie,

 

The thread entitled One Chapter A Day - Re-Read of Bared and Entwined (the latter was a typo, should have said Reflected) thread has the daily summaries, one per day - detailed timelines, key plot developments, new characters .... and my own more detailed thoughts on the content of each chapter. Most days, the daily summary "Readers Guide" was posted sometime before 6 a.m. U.S. Eastern time zone, though there were some days I was late.

 

I'm going to get around to a project soon of creating a master running timeline from the start of Bared to the end of Entwined, once I can sketch out the master timeline for the two weeks of Entwined.

 

Hi, LN Cronan

 

I was asking the tech question *grin* Do you copy paste the Word document to this forum or the other way around?

 

It took me hours to type the complete four charts on List your theories thread. So, it would be a huge help for me if you could tell me how to copy paste the Word document to this forum.

 

Thank you *blushing*