SPOILERS: Entwined with You Overall Discussion

[Donnad]

She might go the Italian way and have both the engagement ring and the wedding band on the same finger.

Are Italian women the only ones to wear two rings?

 

In the US we wear both on the same finger

[Sharonm745]

She might go the Italian way and have both the engagement ring and the wedding band on the same finger.

Are Italian women the only ones to wear two rings?

Most people here wear an engagement ring and a wedding band or just a wedding band.

[LN Cronan]

I apologize if this is a duplicate question.  I am busy this week and I haven't had the time to read everything.

 

I'm still confused about Graves:

 

     The detectives stop by Eva's and ask her about Nathan and the Russian mob.

      Gideon knows he was given a get-out-of-jail-free card and he wants to know why.

      Gideon's lawyers tell him the case is cold or on the shelf.

 

      Eva runs into Graves at the Krav Maga class and she is told don't worry the case is cold.

      At the same session Graves told Eva she needs to worry about the bracelet.

 

What's up with all the mixed messages?  Is Graves still playing with Eva?  Isn't the prosecution required to give the defense accurate information?  If yes, why is Graves still hounding Eva?

 

Graves definitely is still playing Eva. I'm no longer certain, however, whether Graves is out to nail Gideon or not. But Graves definitely lied to Eva at the end of Reflected about she and her partner dropping the matter on their own. It's definitely still an investigation.

 

"Cold" case is not the same as "closed" case.

A "closed" case, also known as a "solved" case, is one where the police have solved it by arresting a person. Or in an instance where an arrest isn't possible, because the suspect has died, officially ruling the dead person did it.

An "cold" case is an open case where the evidence trail is going "cold" -- the investigation isn't going well. Perhaps it even has hit some sort of dead end. But it's not yet over. In some cases, once a certain number of years pass (the "statute of limitations) passes, the case dies, because it no longer is possible to arrest someone. The time ran out on arresting a person. There is no statute of limitations in murder cases -- a "cold" case can stay open for years, even decades. 

 

Re: while a case is still a police investigation and someone (here, Gideon) has not yet been formally charged and arrested, the cops and prosecutors don't have to give the defense jack sh!t. They can play their cards as close to the vest as they want and selectively feed stuff, if they so choose, to a suspect and his/her lawyer. Once someone has been arrested though and is being actively prosecuted, the prosecution is required to turn over copies of all its stuff to the defense. The process is known as "discovery" in the legal world. It boils down to the prosecution having to show the defense all the potential ammunition it may use in court. In return, the defense is required to give some discovery in return, such a list of witnesses the defense might consider calling. Also, the defense needs to give some notice about certain defense strategies - for example, if an insanity defense is planned. But the defense  does get to keep secret some of its tactics planned for the trial, most especially whether or not the defendant will take the stand.

[gabri]

Just one of my stupid questions...

Is there anyone out there brave enough to tell me how to change my avatar?

[Barb55]

Just one of my stupid questions...

Is there anyone out there brave enough to tell me how to change my avatar?

 

If you go to your profile and click on your pic it will say change and then you can download a new pic.

[jennpenn926]

I apologize if this is a duplicate question. I am busy this week and I haven't had the time to read everything.

I'm still confused about Graves:

The detectives stop by Eva's and ask her about Nathan and the Russian mob.

Gideon knows he was given a get-out-of-jail-free card and he wants to know why.

Gideon's lawyers tell him the case is cold or on the shelf.

Eva runs into Graves at the Krav Maga class and she is told don't worry the case is cold.

At the same session Graves told Eva she needs to worry about the bracelet.

What's up with all the mixed messages? Is Graves still playing with Eva? Isn't the prosecution required to give the defense accurate information? If yes, why is Graves still hounding Eva?

I think Graves was telling Eva the case was cold and not to worry about the police for now. But since Eva and Graves( she just can't prove it) both know Gideon killed Nathan the braclet is a lose end that could lead to Gideon getting caught. So Graves is warning Eva to worry that someone else knows.

[Sharonm745]

Graves definitely is still playing Eva. I'm no longer certain, however, whether Graves is out to nail Gideon or not. But Graves definitely lied to Eva at the end of Reflected about she and her partner dropping the matter on their own. It's definitely still an investigation.

 

"Cold" case is not the same as "closed" case.

A "closed" case, also known as a "solved" case, is one where the police have solved it by arresting a person. Or in an instance where an arrest isn't possible, because the suspect has died, officially ruling the dead person did it.

An "cold" case is an open case where the evidence trail is going "cold" -- the investigation isn't going well. Perhaps it even has hit some sort of dead end. But it's not yet over. In some cases, once a certain number of years pass (the "statute of limitations) passes, the case dies, because it no longer is possible to arrest someone. The time ran out on arresting a person. There is no statute of limitations in murder cases -- a "cold" case can stay open for years, even decades. 

 

Re: while a case is still a police investigation and someone (here, Gideon) has not yet been formally charged and arrested, the cops and prosecutors don't have to give the defense jack sh!t. They can play their cards as close to the vest as they want and selectively feed stuff, if they so choose, to a suspect and his/her lawyer. Once someone has been arrested though and is being actively prosecuted, the prosecution is required to turn over copies of all its stuff to the defense. The process is known as "discovery" in the legal world. It boils down to the prosecution having to show the defense all the potential ammunition it may use in court. In return, the defense is required to give some discovery in return, such a list of witnesses the defense might consider calling. Also, the defense needs to give some notice about certain defense strategies - for example, if an insanity defense is planned. But the defense  does get to keep secret some of its tactics planned for the trial, most especially whether or not the defendant will take the stand.

 

I understand the cold case / closed case but why tell Eva that it looks like the Russian mob guy did it if they don't believe it?  I thought they were hinting that they were close to closing the case because of this new evident.  Fast forward to chapter 21 and we get that question about what does your dad think about Cross? and "keep thinking about Nathan's bracelet" questions.  I don't know why she even asked about Victor's thoughts.  I guess I don't like Graves' games.

[Sharonm745]

I think Graves was telling Eva the case was cold and not to worry about the police for now. But since Eva and Graves( she just can't prove it) both know Gideon killed Nathan the braclet is a lose end that could lead to Gideon getting caught. So Graves is warning Eva to worry that someone else knows.

 

So you think Graves is pulling for Eva/Gideon?  I can't decide.  I know I would if I saw the pictures and videos.  I want to take Graves at her word from the first Krav Maga meeting in RIY but that would be too easy for Sylvia to go there. 

[golfergirl]

So I was trying to attach a new henry pic but don't know how,,,anyway as I was thinking of our henry/gideon obsession, boy are we all going to be disappointed if he doesnt get cast...anybody know a casting director in Hollywood...

 

and the only other thing Ive been thinking lately is that I thought it was too soon for Gideon/Eva to go public at the Thursday night gala after such a short time after the murder,,,too premature for my taste, cold case or not...

[gabri]

If you go to your profile and click on your pic it will say change and then you can download a new pic.

Thank you so much!!!!

[LN Cronan]

I understand the cold case / closed case but why tell Eva that it looks like the Russian mob guy did it if they don't believe it?  I thought they were hinting that they were close to closing the case because of this new evident.  Fast forward to chapter 21 and we get that question about what does your dad think about Cross? and "keep thinking about Nathan's bracelet" questions.  I don't know why she even asked about Victor's thoughts.  I guess I don't like Graves' games.

 

That's key, Sharon -- Graves knows Gideon did it. So she doesn't believe the Russian mob guy did it. But she's not happy that someone has made it look like the Russian did it. Because that new evidence throws the whole case into some sort of limbo.

 

• Where things stand right now, the cops can't definitely pin it on the Russian and so solve/close the case for good.
• Yet there's no way at this particular point in time that they can dare charge Gideon, if that's what Graves actually wants to do. Because as long as the Russian remains some sort of unsolved mystery, there's no way the prosecution could ever win a trial. All the defense would need to do is convinced the jury the Russian might have done it -- that's enough for "reasonable doubt" that Gideon did it. 
• If Graves really does want to nail Gideon, she needs to eliminate the Russian as a suspect. To do that, she's got to figure out who sought to attempt to frame the Russian and why.
• If Graves really does want to lay the whole matter to rest quietly, well, she can't do that right now. Because there's a loose cannon out there -- is it an enemy of Gideon's who's got inside knowledge of the case and is manipulating evidence?

The part about Victor puzzles me. Did Victor meet with Graves after he found out about Nathan? Was it, in fact, Graves who told Victor about Nathan? Victor called Eva on Sunday and said he was hopping on a plane right away. She expected him to show up in New York sometime that same day -- but she never heard from him again until Monday afternoon. Did Victor actually come to New York on Sunday and meet with Graves face to face first -- then made things appear like it wasn't until Monday he got to New York. yes, Eva picked him up at LaGuardia on Monday afternoon. But who's to say he didn't just go to the terminal and make it look like he just got off a plane, when in fact he'd been in New York since Sunday.

[julie54]

The part about Victor puzzles me. Did Victor meet with Graves after he found out about Nathan? Was it, in fact, Graves who told Victor about Nathan? Victor called Eva on Sunday and said he was hopping on a plane right away. She expected him to show up in New York sometime that same day -- but she never heard from him again until Monday afternoon. Did Victor actually come to New York on Sunday and meet with Graves face to face first -- then made things appear like it wasn't until Monday he got to New York. yes, Eva picked him up at LaGuardia on Monday afternoon. But who's to say he didn't just go to the terminal and make it look like he just got off a plane, when in fact he'd been in New York since Sunday.

This part puzzled me too. i was actually surprised Victor went home after the cops turned up at Eva's on the Friday to tell them about Nathan's death. Seeing Eva's reaction to the news. I thought he would return quickly to give her support, thus finding out about the abuse. I got that bit right.

When she spoke to him on the Saturday, before he found out, he said he was going into the office. Which office, where? I think you could be right about him meeting Graves, back in New York. Then making it look like he'd just turned up at the airport. Good call.

[insideofclouds]

This part puzzled me too. i was actually surprised Victor went home after the cops turned up at Eva's on the Friday to tell them about Nathan's death. Seeing Eva's reaction to the news. I thought he would return quickly to give her support, thus finding out about the abuse. I got that bit right.

When she spoke to him on the Saturday, before he found out, he said he was going into the office. Which office, where? I think you could be right about him meeting Graves, back in New York. Then making it look like he'd just turned up at the airport. Good call.

If he met with Graves I wonder if she mentioned her suspicion that Gideon murdered Nathan.

[julie54]

If he met with Graves I wonder if she mentioned her suspicion that Gideon murdered Nathan.

After he found out, Victor said he wanted to hurt something. Also probably wanted to shake Gideons hand. Wonder how that conversation went, when he(Gideon)asked Victor for Eva's hand in marriage. Oh to be a fly!

[julie54]

Thank you so much!!!!

Hi Gabri

Why a lovely picture.

[insideofclouds]

After he found out, Victor said he wanted to hurt something. Also probably wanted to shake Gideons hand. Wonder how that conversation went, when he(Gideon)asked Victor for Eva's hand in marriage. Oh to be a fly!

I hope we find out more about their conversation

[jennpenn926]

So you think Graves is pulling for Eva/Gideon? I can't decide. I know I would if I saw the pictures and videos. I want to take Graves at her word from the first Krav Maga meeting in RIY but that would be too easy for Sylvia to go there.

I don't necessarily think Graves is pulling Gideon and Eva. I think if she had the evidence arrest Gideon she would because she is a cop first and foremost. At the end of RIY I thought she was h.ell bent to nail Gideon's a.ss with a murder charge, but not so much anymore. I think she honestly believes Gideon isn't a threat to anyone else ( that's why she asked Eva for Victor's opinion of Gideon she wanted to see if their opinions matched up) Graves probably is fine with Gideon being free after seeing all the photos but will definitely do her job if somehow evidence comes forward implicating Gideon.

[jennpenn926]

But Graves probably doesn't like that there is someone out there planting evidence. And wants to know their angle.

[LN Cronan]

This part puzzled me too. i was actually surprised Victor went home after the cops turned up at Eva's on the Friday to tell them about Nathan's death. Seeing Eva's reaction to the news. I thought he would return quickly to give her support, thus finding out about the abuse. I got that bit right.

When she spoke to him on the Saturday, before he found out, he said he was going into the office. Which office, where? I think you could be right about him meeting Graves, back in New York. Then making it look like he'd just turned up at the airport. Good call.

 

Victor did tell Eva he'd originally hoped she would tell him herself the real reason why she practically fainted when she found out Nathan had been in New York. Not for a second did he buy the "just some bully" explanation. He knew there was something more to it. He also knew that Cary knew as well.

 

Victor did start doing some digging the very night the cops had first seen Eva. Victor could tell Gideon was being evasive too -- evasive about where he (Gideon) was on Thursday. Didn't take long for Victor to figure out Gideon was out (so he thought) cheating on Eva with Corrine on Thursday night.

 

My guess is that Victor did some initial digging about Nathan, but was counting on Eva working up the courage to start talking to him about what the real deal was with Nathan. When she still kept silent, and the days passed, he decided to start digging hard.

 

Timeline:

1. Friday of THAT week: detectives showed up about Nathan. Eva wouldn't talk to her Dad about Nathan.
2. Saturday: Eva ditched Gideon, and then began avoiding talking about him too -- so Victor couldn't find out from her why the police asked Gideon about Nathan as well
3. Rest of the weekend: Victor and Eva went sight-seeing, and avoided talking about anything painful. He went home Sunday.
4. Nine more days pass: still Eva doesn't open up about Nathan, despite Victor hoping she would work up whatever courage she needed to do so.
5. Wednesday: Graves tells Eva the truth - Gideon killed Nathan.
6. Sunday morning: Victor had found out about Nathan. It took him a while to get Eva by phone (she was at the love nest, not her own apartment, and she slept in late). They talked, and she believed he was getting on a plane that day. But she didn't hear from him again.
7. Monday afternoon: Victor was at LaGuardia, Eva picked him up there.

 

Questions:

• Did Victor find out on his own through police channels about Nathan's juvie record -- and then manage to get copies of the court files? Or was it Graves who told him about Nathan?
• If Victor did find out on his own, did he then on his own call Graves, knowing she was handling the investigation into Nathan's death?
• If so, how much (or how little) did Graves tell Victor about Nathan's recent activities in New York? About Gideon's involvement? About Monica and Stanton's involvement?
• Did Victor actually fly to New York on Sunday but keep that secret from Eva so that he could meet with Graves? Because the type of stuff she'd tell him isn't stuff they ought to have talked about on the phone -- it called for a face to face meeting someplace private.

[gabri]

Hi Gabri

Why a lovely picture.

Please meet Mr Gedeon Cross in all his glorious hotness!!!!

[Barb55]

Please meet Mr Gedeon Cross in all his glorious hotness!!!!

 

[julie54]

Victor did tell Eva he'd originally hoped she would tell him herself the real reason why she practically fainted when she found out Nathan had been in New York. Not for a second did he buy the "just some bully" explanation. He knew there was something more to it. He also knew that Cary knew as well.

Victor did start doing some digging the very night the cops had first seen Eva. Victor could tell Gideon was being evasive too -- evasive about where he (Gideon) was on Thursday. Didn't take long for Victor to figure out Gideon was out (so he thought) cheating on Eva with Corrine on Thursday night.

My guess is that Victor did some initial digging about Nathan, but was counting on Eva working up the courage to start talking to him about what the real deal was with Nathan. When she still kept silent, and the days passed, he decided to start digging hard.

Timeline:

• Friday of THAT week: detectives showed up about Nathan. Eva wouldn't talk to her Dad about Nathan.
• Saturday: Eva ditched Gideon, and then began avoiding talking about him too -- so Victor couldn't find out from her why the police asked Gideon about Nathan as well
• Rest of the weekend: Victor and Eva went sight-seeing, and avoided talking about anything painful. He went home Sunday.
• Nine more days pass: still Eva doesn't open up about Nathan, despite Victor hoping she would work up whatever courage she needed to do so.
• Wednesday: Graves tells Eva the truth - Gideon killed Nathan.
• Sunday morning: Victor had found out about Nathan. It took him a while to get Eva by phone (she was at the love nest, not her own apartment, and she slept in late). They talked, and she believed he was getting on a plane that day. But she didn't hear from him again.
• Monday afternoon: Victor was at LaGuardia, Eva picked him up there.

Questions:

• Did Victor find out on his own through police channels about Nathan's juvie record -- and then manage to get copies of the court files? Or was it Graves who told him about Nathan?
• If Victor did find out on his own, did he then on his own call Graves, knowing she was handling the investigation into Nathan's death?
• If so, how much (or how little) did Graves tell Victor about Nathan's recent activities in New York? About Gideon's involvement? About Monica and Stanton's involvement?
• Did Victor actually fly to New York on Sunday but keep that secret from Eva so that he could meet with Graves? Because the type of stuff she'd tell him isn't stuff they ought to have talked about on the phone -- it called for a face to face meeting someplace private.

I agree with that.

Page 119 in Entwined. When going to Monica's, Eva has a chat with Victor on the Saturday. Eva mentions that Monica has been sticking her nose in her(Eva's) business. Victor replies "Ah. Sometimes we parents do that when we are worried about our babies." Eva says he's never don't that. Victor replies "I haven't done it yet, that doesn't mean I won't, if I'm worried enough. I just hope I could convince you to forgive me."

He s still giving her the opportunity to come clean with him.

[insideofclouds]

I agree with that.

Page 119 in Entwined. When going to Monica's, Eva has a chat with Victor on the Saturday. Eva mentions that Monica has been sticking her nose in her(Eva's) business. Victor replies "Ah. Sometimes we parents do that when we are worried about our babies." Eva says he's never don't that. Victor replies "I haven't done it yet, that doesn't mean I won't, if I'm worried enough. I just hope I could convince you to forgive me."

He s still giving her the opportunity to come clean with him.

Omg yes! Maybe he already knows Gideon killed Nathan!

[LN Cronan]

I agree with that.

Page 119 in Entwined. When going to Monica's, Eva has a chat with Victor on the Saturday. Eva mentions that Monica has been sticking her nose in her(Eva's) business. Victor replies "Ah. Sometimes we parents do that when we are worried about our babies." Eva says he's never don't that. Victor replies "I haven't done it yet, that doesn't mean I won't, if I'm worried enough. I just hope I could convince you to forgive me."

He s still giving her the opportunity to come clean with him.

 

 

Omg yes! Maybe he already knows Gideon killed Nathan!

 

Excellent point. Maybe Victor now knows about Nathan and knows about Gideon having removed the threat to Eva forever. He's keeping his mouth shut about the latter for right now. If Eva ever wants to open up to him, fine -- but for now, he'd rather avoid going there unless he absolutely has to.

 

Maybe he's watching what happens next with Gideon. Obviously, Gideon loves Eva enough to do anything to protect her -- and it's obvious now Gideon wasn't some sort of cheater. If Gideon now "does right" by Eva and makes her happy, then Victor will let sleeping dog lie. But just like Gideon has some proving to do to Eva, he's got some proving to do to Victor too. Thus -- watch and wait; step in only if Victor becomes concerned, but other than that, give his blessing to Gideon becoming his son-in-law.

[jennpenn926]

Gideon did say he recorded him asking Victor for permission to marry Eva so I hope and pray that Eva listens to it so we all know what was said.