Entwined - A Chapter A Day Discussion (contains spoilers)

[LN Cronan]

I'm on Team Clancy Planted The Bracelet, but I think he had help from Angus. Gideon was quick to rule out Eva's first guess, Angus. He did so instantly. Why would that be? I think because Angus accompanied Gideon to the scene and left with him too -- drove him to and from Nathan's hotel, stood lookout while Gideon let himself into Nathan's room with a master keycard, got rid of the knife and probably gloves Gideon wore, Gideon's suit jacket and/or shirt if any of Nathan's blood got on it too.

 

Perhaps Angus slipped back later to grab the bracelet and the photos, with the idea of somehow later planting that evidence elsewhere in order to throw police off Gideon's trail, if the cops started focusing on him (which they had.) Clancy was the one, with the brother in the FBI, who helped concoct the plan to plant the evidence on a Russian Mafia gang member. Clancy and Angus obviously had been working in tandem on Eva's bodyguard detail - Angus watching over her, Clancy keeping track of Nathan. I think the two of them hooked up afterward -- Clancy figured out it had to have been Gideon who killed Nathan, and went to Angus.

[gabri]

After the 4th rereading, Chap. 14 still gives me the creeps. What with Graves + Michna still pestering around, plus Gideon isn't calling Eva back (grrrr), and on top of all that DDeanna and her forked tongue.

 

The fact that Detective Michna says Yedemsky possibly got those photos of Eva's from Nathan makes me think

1. they know for certain he didn'd

2 they also already suspect who might have planted both the pics and the bracelet.

 

Whoever is helping Gideon, I don't think he's foe. I'm still debating the point in shifting the case from the local police to the FBI..... and the only thing I've come up with is this mystery man can manage things from the inside.

 

I have another pick from this chapter!

"The thought of him tormented by his own mind, alone and in pain, wounded me".

Which, with Henry in the back of my mind, is even more hurting!!!!

ps. get into the line, sister!!!

[gabri]

Good morning Ladies, I hope you are all well

 

Swooning.......drooling....... fanning......

I've never appreciated my being multitasking like I do know!!!!

[LN Cronan]

What gave me the sad creeps was this from the top of page 208, Eva overhearing Gideon talking in his sleep/nightmare:

 

He growled, a low feral sound of aggression. "Never," he bit out. "You'll never touch her again."

 

Gideon's sexual nightmares come in two forms. When he's the aggressor, he's acting out striking back, acting out fighting -- acting out his anger. But when he's in one of his victim version of the nightmares, he appears to be actually reliving the physical and mental agony of being forcibly anally penetrated. He's having a flashback in other words to what actually happened as he was being raped.

 

So I took this particular Nathan nightmare to be an actual flashback to the words he said as he plunged the knife straight into Nathan's heart and/or the words he said to Nathan as Nathan lay at his feet, the final seconds of Nathan's life as the light was leaving his eyes forever.

 

it's awful to think Gideon is carrying around those memories in his head, and they will come back to haunt him sometimes in the night for the remainder of his own life.

[Sheens263]

I'm on Team Clancy Planted The Bracelet, but I think he had help from Angus. Gideon was quick to rule out Eva's first guess, Angus. He did so instantly. Why would that be? I think because Angus accompanied Gideon to the scene and left with him too -- drove him to and from Nathan's hotel, stood lookout while Gideon let himself into Nathan's room with a master keycard, got rid of the knife and probably gloves Gideon wore, Gideon's suit jacket and/or shirt if any of Nathan's blood got on it too.

 

Perhaps Angus slipped back later to grab the bracelet and the photos, with the idea of somehow later planting that evidence elsewhere in order to throw police off Gideon's trail, if the cops started focusing on him (which they had.) Clancy was the one, with the brother in the FBI, who helped concoct the plan to plant the evidence on a Russian Mafia gang member. Clancy and Angus obviously had been working in tandem on Eva's bodyguard detail - Angus watching over her, Clancy keeping track of Nathan. I think the two of them hooked up afterward -- Clancy figured out it had to have been Gideon who killed Nathan, and went to Angus.

I did not think Gideon would use the master key as that would show up on Evidence as well I think Gideon knocked on Nathan's door as we were told Nathan was found just inside the door making me think he opened the door to Gideon, expecting him then Gideon stabbed him before Nathan could make a move.

 

Sheens 

[Sheens263]

Swooning.......drooling....... fanning......

I've never appreciated my being multitasking like I do know!!!!

LOL

[LN Cronan]

I did not think Gideon would use the master key as that would show up on Evidence as well I think Gideon knocked on Nathan's door as we were told Nathan was found just inside the door making me think he opened the door to Gideon, expecting him then Gideon stabbed him before Nathan could make a move.

 

Sheens 

 

One way or another, that door opened. I'm convinced he used a master key. It would give him the element of surprise getting into the room. Plus it would guarantee entry.

 

What was he supposed to do if Nathan refused to open the door. Even the sound of knocking on the door could be overheard, especially if he needed to start arguing with Nathan. I can't see Gideon leaving that to chance.

 

Especially because he had the ability to get a keycard that would open any door in that hotel (including service entrances to use to slip in and out) and the ability to make sure no keycard could ever be traced directly to him on the computer system. Besides, Gideon already has a well-established pattern of using elevator masterkeys, so he's got plenty of practice in the use of grabbing physical control of parts of his properties (like the Crossfire elevators and the elevator at his building where Dr. Terry Lucas has his pediatrics office.)

[sscrph]

I did not think Gideon would use the master key as that would show up on Evidence as well I think Gideon knocked on Nathan's door as we were told Nathan was found just inside the door making me think he opened the door to Gideon, expecting him then Gideon stabbed him before Nathan could make a move.

 

Sheens

Yes Sheens I have always thought that Nathan answered the door to Gideon...

[gabri]

Just another thought!!

 

Eva says: "I needed to ask Gideon - with the hope that he was as clueless as I was."

 

This statement has me thinking Eva wants to believe Gideon is not further involved, but doesn't put it past him. She needs to hear from Gideon himself that he has nothing to do with the Russian mob, which he promptly does.

 

And we're all sighing with relief here!!!

[LN Cronan]

One additional possibility exists -- that Gideon let himself into that room while Nathan was out and was lying in wait for Nathan to be the one to walk in the door, stabbing him as soon as he entered, before Nathan even knew what happened. Then Gideon held his hand over Nathan's mouth so he couldn't make a sound as he lay dying.

 

Given that Clancy was tailing Nathan, this scenario actually fits in with Clancy knowing Gideon did it -- Clancy following Nathan back to his hotel, seeing him enter, and then very, very soon afterward, spotting Gideon slipping out of the place.

 

Eva was told by Detective Graves that Nathan answered the door. But we already know Graves lied about dropping the investigation, so it's possible some of the "facts" she fed Eva were half-truths or lies themselves. Graves did know that Gideon owned the hotel where Nathan died, and Graves also knew the security camera system in that hotel was offline. At best, Graves was guessing Nathan answered the door, but perhaps Graves was lying: Graves knows that Gideon managed to open that door himself, but did it in a way that cannot be directly tied to him.

[LN Cronan]

Just another thought!!

 

Eva says: "I needed to ask Gideon - with the hope that he was as clueless as I was."

 

This statement has me thinking Eva wants to believe Gideon is not further involved, but doesn't put it past him. She needs to hear from Gideon himself that he has nothing to do with the Russian mob, which he promptly does.

 

And we're all sighing with relief here!!!

 

Gee, New Gideon actually offering important information on his own.

 

Not Kinda New Gideon at least sometimes willing to answer Eva's questions, but only if pressed (like when she had to keep asking him about Corrine's phone call Sunday.)

 

Not Old Gideon -- refusing to even talk about stuff, period.

 

Yes!!! Progress is being made!!!!

[LN Cronan]

Actually, Eva did not put it past Richard Stanton to hire a hitman to kill Nathan. She asked Monica the next morning whether Stanton had arranged the killing.

 

It's great that Eva now feels she can ask Gideon something. In the past, she was shut out and in a position where her insecurities could run rampant.

[sscrph]

Someone knows what Gideon did -- if it's foe instead of friend, the biggest danger is his (or her) ability turning state's evidence as an eyewitness placing Gideon at the scene around the time of death. Utterly destroy his alibi. This person could blackmail him forever -- own the mortgage to Gideon's soul. Eva's too, because there's a danger she could be charged as an accessory too. Which she actually is now -- an accessory after the fact.

 

Because if they charged Eva too, Gideon would never go to trial. He'd never run the risk she could be tried and convicted and sent to prison for a very long time. He'd plea bargain instead, go to prison himself for a long time as part of a deal that included a condition authorities won't ever charge Eva in connection with the case.

 

I think it is friend, not foe, who planted the evidence. Gideon is now digging (well, has ordered Raul to dig) to solve the mystery.

 

Interesting comment by Gideon on page 211, that whoever did plant the evidence is connected to "... either the mob or the authorities, or both."

 

I'm ruling out Graves. It's one thing to "burn her notes" (which we now know was a lie anyway -- she and her partner never dropped the case). It's another thing to steal evidence from police storage. If that bracelet was on Nathan's corpse when police arrived, it would have appeared in the pictures the crime scene technicians took of his body exactly where it lay. It also would have appeared on an inventory of everything that was on Nathan's corpse when it arrived at the medical examiner's office, where even more photos would have been taken both before and after Nathan's body was stripped bare for his autopsy. Then there would be even more chain-of-evidence paperwork from when everything removed from the body was placed in evidence storage.

 

The bracelet (plus some of Nathan's recent stalking-around-New-York photos of Eva) were removed from the scene sometime between Gideon leaving it on Thursday and the first-responding police officer securing the crime scene Friday morning.

Someone connected to the mob or the authorities or both could be someone in the FBI...

[sscrph]

Gee, New Gideon actually offering important information on his own.

 

Not Kinda New Gideon at least sometimes willing to answer Eva's questions, but only if pressed (like when she had to keep asking him about Corrine's phone call Sunday.)

 

Not Old Gideon -- refusing to even talk about stuff, period.

 

Yes!!! Progress is being made!!!!

I love the new and improved Gideon and I think it has actually improved his prowess in the bedroom LOL as if there was a need for improvement HA!! The sexy time scenes in EWY are EPIC!!

[julie54]

One additional possibility exists -- that Gideon let himself into that room while Nathan was out and was lying in wait for Nathan to be the one to walk in the door, stabbing him as soon as he entered, before Nathan even knew what happened. Then Gideon held his hand over Nathan's mouth so he couldn't make a sound as he lay dying.

 

Given that Clancy was tailing Nathan, this scenario actually fits in with Clancy knowing Gideon did it -- Clancy following Nathan back to his hotel, seeing him enter, and then very, very soon afterward, spotting Gideon slipping out of the place.

 

Eva was told by Detective Graves that Nathan answered the door. But we already know Graves lied about dropping the investigation, so it's possible some of the "facts" she fed Eva were half-truths or lies themselves. Graves did know that Gideon owned the hotel where Nathan died, and Graves also knew the security camera system in that hotel was offline. At best, Graves was guessing Nathan answered the door, but perhaps Graves was lying: Graves knows that Gideon managed to open that door himself, but did it in a way that cannot be directly tied to him.

Is it possible, that Gideon led Nathan to believe that he would pay him off. Nathan was expecting Gideon with a pay day for him. Getting a bit more than he bargained for.

[gabri]

One way or another, that door opened. I'm convinced he used a master key. It would give him the element of surprise getting into the room. Plus it would guarantee entry.

 

What was he supposed to do if Nathan refused to open the door. Even the sound of knocking on the door could be overheard, especially if he needed to start arguing with Nathan. I can't see Gideon leaving that to chance.

 

Especially because he had the ability to get a keycard that would open any door in that hotel (including service entrances to use to slip in and out) and the ability to make sure no keycard could ever be traced directly to him on the computer system. Besides, Gideon already has a well-established pattern of using elevator masterkeys, so he's got plenty of practice in the use of grabbing physical control of parts of his properties (like the Crossfire elevators and the elevator at his building where Dr. Terry Lucas has his pediatrics office.)

Hi LN

Gedeon might have not used his master key, if he was meeting Nathan under the pretence of being willing to pay for those pics of Eva's.

[julie54]

Actually, Eva did not put it past Richard Stanton to hire a hitman to kill Nathan. She asked Monica the next morning whether Stanton had arranged the killing.

It's great that Eva now feels she can ask Gideon something. In the past, she was shut out and in a position where her insecurities could run rampant.

Going out on a limb here.

What if Monica turned up at Nathan's to pay him off, just as Gideon was leaving, he doesn't see Monica . Monica finds a dead Nathan, calls Clancy for help. Clancy arranges the hit on Yedemsky, care of his brother(job for life care of Stanton). Hence Clancys comments, "you'll be ok" to Eva.

It was Monica's comment to Eva at lunch, when Eva said she and Gideon didnt have secrets, Monica asked "what about him(Gideon)?

Then Monica went on to say, "everything I've done is for love. Everything"

In chapter 17 Monica s definitely hiding something big.

Or, what if Monica was just leaving after paying off Nathan, she saw Gideon, he didnt see her. She waits to see what happens. Sees Gideon leave after killing Nathan, then calls Clancy, for help.

Tying myself up in knots here!!

[azmich]

Going out on a limb here.

What if Monica turned up at Nathan's to pay him off, just as Gideon was leaving, he doesn't see Monica . Monica finds a dead Nathan, calls Clancy for help. Clancy arranges the hit on Yedemsky, care of his brother(job for life care of Stanton). Hence Clancys comments, "you'll be ok"

It was Monica's comment to Eva at lunch, when Eva said she and Gideon didnt have secrets, Monica asked "what about him(Gideon)?

Then Monica went on to say, "everything I've done is for love. Everything"

In chapter 17 Monica s definitely hiding something big.

 

Like that possibility!!!

[insideofclouds]

Going out on a limb here.

What if Monica turned up at Nathan's to pay him off, just as Gideon was leaving, he doesn't see Monica . Monica finds a dead Nathan, calls Clancy for help. Clancy arranges the hit on Yedemsky, care of his brother(job for life care of Stanton). Hence Clancys comments, "you'll be ok" to Eva.

It was Monica's comment to Eva at lunch, when Eva said she and Gideon didnt have secrets, Monica asked "what about him(Gideon)?

Then Monica went on to say, "everything I've done is for love. Everything"

In chapter 17 Monica s definitely hiding something big.

Or, what if Monica was just leaving after paying off Nathan, she saw Gideon, he didnt see her. She waits to see what happens. Sees Gideon leave after killing Nathan, then calls Clancy, for help.

Tying myself up in knots here!!

 

Oh wow Julie! That's a really interesting possibility!

[julie54]

Going out on a limb here.

What if Monica turned up at Nathan's to pay him off, just as Gideon was leaving, he doesn't see Monica . Monica finds a dead Nathan, calls Clancy for help. Clancy arranges the hit on Yedemsky, care of his brother(job for life care of Stanton). Hence Clancys comments, "you'll be ok" to Eva.

It was Monica's comment to Eva at lunch, when Eva said she and Gideon didnt have secrets, Monica asked "what about him(Gideon)?

Then Monica went on to say, "everything I've done is for love. Everything"

In chapter 17 Monica s definitely hiding something big.

Or, what if Monica was just leaving after paying off Nathan, she saw Gideon, he didnt see her. She waits to see what happens. Sees Gideon leave after killing Nathan, then calls Clancy, for help.

Tying myself up in knots here!!

  

Oh wow Julie! That's a really interesting possibility!

I was thinking about Monica at work. I keep thinking about what she said to Eva. If she did pay off Nathan, a lot of her nest egg would be gone.

[Sharonm745]

Going out on a limb here.

What if Monica turned up at Nathan's to pay him off, just as Gideon was leaving, he doesn't see Monica . Monica finds a dead Nathan, calls Clancy for help. Clancy arranges the hit on Yedemsky, care of his brother(job for life care of Stanton). Hence Clancys comments, "you'll be ok" to Eva.

It was Monica's comment to Eva at lunch, when Eva said she and Gideon didnt have secrets, Monica asked "what about him(Gideon)?

Then Monica went on to say, "everything I've done is for love. Everything"

In chapter 17 Monica s definitely hiding something big.

Or, what if Monica was just leaving after paying off Nathan, she saw Gideon, he didnt see her. She waits to see what happens. Sees Gideon leave after killing Nathan, then calls Clancy, for help.

Tying myself up in knots here!!

 

OMG I'll bet you are right.

 

I always thought Clancy was keeping an eye on Nathan and took on the task of covering for Gideon.  I don't think Clancy order the hit on Yedemsky.  I think that really was the mob boss getting at him for messing with the boss' daughter.  His FBI brother knew Yedemsky was just killed by his mob boss, Clancy's brother told Clancy and he followed up with moving the bracelet after Monica called him. 

 

I'm wondering if Clancy would let Monica go to Nathan alone.  It is possible that they went together. 

 

What if Monica told Victor when he was arguing with her and while comforting Monica they ended up in bed. 

[Sharonm745]

   I was thinking about Monica at work. I keep thinking about what she said to Eva. If she did pay off Nathan, a lot of her nest egg would be gone.

 

If she found Nathan dead, would she get her money back.  The police know Stanton paid Nathan, after his death wouldn't they return that money to Stanton?  I don't know how that works but I hope Stanton and Monica get the money back.

[julie54]

OMG I'll bet you are right.

I always thought Clancy was keeping an eye on Nathan and took on the task of covering for Gideon. I don't think Clancy order the hit on Yedemsky. I think that really was the mob boss getting at him for messing with the boss' daughter. His FBI brother knew Yedemsky was just killed by his mob boss, Clancy's brother told Clancy and he followed up with moving the bracelet after Monica called him.

I'm wondering if Clancy would let Monica go to Nathan alone. It is possible that they went together.

What if Monica told Victor when he was arguing with her and while comforting Monica they ended up in bed.

Just read page259.

Monica says to Eva, when talking about money, "and if your lucky, you'll never have anything that will drain you financially."

I'm almost positive she paid off Nathan just before Gideon arrived.

I'm thinking Clancy went too.

They had to cover theirs and Gideons tracks.

She(Monica)could have told Victor, that's why he agreed to Gideon marrying her(Eva)for protecting her.

[LN Cronan]

I wonder where Nathan kept the sapphire bracelet during the years he was locked up as criminally insane. Same place as he hid his homemade stash of child violent child p.o.r.n. featuring Eva?

 

I also wonder what's become of the originals of the photos/video Nathan did have. It's possible they were in the hotel room, though it would have been incredibly risky for him to keep them on him. Did Gideon/Stanton/Clancy manage to get their hands on the originals in order to destroy them?

[julie54]

I wonder where Nathan kept the sapphire bracelet during the years he was locked up as criminally insane. Same place as he hid his homemade stash of child violent child p.o.r.n. featuring Eva?

 

I also wonder what's become of the originals of the photos/video Nathan did have. It's possible they were in the hotel room, though it would have been incredibly risky for him to keep them on him. Did Gideon/Stanton/Clancy manage to get their hands on the originals in order to destroy them?

Which ones would the police have had? The originals or copies?

As for the bracelet, could he have had a safety deposit box or locker?